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I've tried to list for myself points that makes a good solo. But that is not enough.
Lets go evil!
Bad solo. All the bad things to make a solo bad?
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04-13-2023 05:02 PM
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One man’s bad solo is another man’s A Love Supreme inspired masterpiece.
The same way a boring solo is another man’s piece of beauty inspired by Johnny Smith.
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A bad solo is.. are you afraid performing a bad solo?
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I can think of some bad moments in otherwise pretty great solos. They usually involve the player simply repeating the same figure over and over for 16-32 measures, evidently quite "into it" themselves, but for me, just kind of boring. I think all players, however great, have their bad moments if they are truly improvising.
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Awhile ago I mentioned the live version of Free Bird (Lynyrd Skynyrd), Creedence’s I Heard It Through the Grapevine and Neil Young’s Down by the River as solos that were too long and repetitive. Should have been cut in half.
I can’t think of any jazz solos that are “bad” though. I have to say listening to Coltrane’s Love Supreme vs McLaughlin/Santana’s Love Supreme makes the latter seem like wankers. You just can’t compete with the Trane. Best not to even try.
What makes a bad solo IMO is music that A) doesn’t “say” anything and B) doesn’t end when you’ve said what you want to say.
Look at Cannonball handing the baton to Coltrane on All Blues. That’s genius. Virtually all the solos in Miles’ music are genius. Say your piece, then pass it on to the next guy. Or go back to the bridge.
BTW, emanresu, you’re in Estonia? Tallinn? My nephew Brandon Tarm has played cello with the Estonian National Symphony. And his brother Jonas Tarm has written several works performed by the ENSO.
I’ve been there several times myself and met Veljo Tormis on one occasion. My ex-wife met Arvo Part and got his autograph for me.
Lovely country. Hope to make it back there sometime in the not-too-distant future.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
A truly bad solo is the one where the player can't get what they're going after. Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes it's not.
I'd say one of the most sure sign a player is struggling is their time is bad.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Here's one.
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The transcendentals of the ancients were Truth, Beauty, and Goodness, so
categorized because they transcend the values of a particular time & place.
Jazz interprets these musically as what's Authentic, Alluring, & Appropriate.
Bad solos would be some threshold combination of phony, ugly, and wrong.
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“Bad” is a pretty strong word, but a Grade B or worse solo might involve either of the two:
1. Climaxing too early.
2. Never climaxing.
OTOH - soloists who play for singers have often held back - as have sidemen for instrumental soloists - so as not to upstage the “star”.Last edited by Jazzjourney4Eva; 04-14-2023 at 01:04 AM.
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A bad solo is when the player doesn't execute their ideas.
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There is no bad solo - there is a bad player.
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I’d say that there’s bad in the sense of incompetently executed and bad in the sense of (for lack of a better term) aesthetically weak.
One doesn’t often hear incompetence on commercially released jazz recordings, but one encounters it a lot in the wild. I’d say the big indicators of that are shaky time and fumbling around to find notes that fit the changes.
Artistically weak is subjective, but one thing I don’t like to hear is long uninterrupted runs of 1/8 notes that give a sense playing exercises. So I guess lack of phrasing, rhythmic variety, and adventure in note choices in otherwise well executed playing is “bad” to my tastes.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Blues, R&B, Gospel music...that type of repetition is very much a thing. And it's not a chance, I think these are planned "climaxes" if you will, or "on the edges" (all this talk of climaxing sounds dirty after a while doesn't it?) you gotta know going in that it's going to work over a whole set of chords.
EDIT: I hadn't listened to that solo on Sunny in ages, I yelled "yeah" out loud 3 different times during. itLast edited by mr. beaumont; 04-14-2023 at 12:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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A bad solo is I guess the opposite of a good solo. Nothing happens by happenstance in a good solo. It's when every idea that you hear sounds like it was planned to be played right there all along. A good solo really sounds like a composition.
Tommy Flanagan's solo here is one example, IMO. You all heard this tune many times. In fact, the whole performance sounds like it was composed and carefully arranged. That's probably true for every Wes tune.
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w/all due respect to my friend Lawson, I've NEVER heard Pat Martino run out of ideas, not even for a second,
he's a wellspring of improvisational ideas. every once in awhile I find myself using that device, maybe because it's subconsciously part of my vocabulary at this point. I never think about it but I'm sure I got it from Pat/Grant Green
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This is a bad solo (while also being absolutely genius)
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Originally Posted by emanresu
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Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
They might not cost you money, car failure, medical problems, or bridge collapse, but some solos are bad.
It also seems disrespectful of musicians that solo well to pretend that there is no such thing as a bad solo.
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A good solo is the one I've just done. A bad solo is the same one when I hear it a week later
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Yesterday, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading