The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    It is hard to answer without clichés... but for me

    - repetitive
    - focus on exhibitionist artist instead of focus on a message within the context.
    - too long

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    A bad solo sounds like you usually and never play.
    It sounds too close than you play or doesn't sound the way you want it to sound.
    It depends of who is listening.
    Blindfold auditions are the best for that.
    You see a name of someone you like, it's good, someone you dislike, it's bad.

    The best thing is to record something, something bad, you let the people listen and comment.
    Then you've got two possibilities.

    The same recording
    - Some will hate it more
    - Some will say it's better than the other one

    Another recording
    - Some will say they already listened to it
    - Some will say it's great without listening

    A bad solo ? Bad listeners for sure.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    A bad solo sounds like you usually and never play.
    It sounds too close than you play or doesn't sound the way you want it to sound.
    It depends of who is listening.
    Blindfold auditions are the best for that.
    You see a name of someone you like, it's good, someone you dislike, it's bad.

    The best thing is to record something, something bad, you let the people listen and comment.
    Then you've got two possibilities.

    The same recording
    - Some will hate it more
    - Some will say it's better than the other one

    Another recording
    - Some will say they already listened to it
    - Some will say it's great without listening

    A bad solo ? Bad listeners for sure.
    There's a lot of truth in that.
    Who is to judge a solo of musician .
    Is it possible to objectively assess whether a solo is good or bad?
    There is a rule in jazz that the performer-musician must always be dissatisfied with what he is playing.
    And then it may seem to him that it is bad, and to the listener it may seem quite the opposite.
    Maybe it's easier to give examples of a perfect solo.
    However, it is also difficult to say what criteria to use in the assessment.
    ps.
    Surely a person-instrumentalist who has no idea about playing jazz can only play bad solos.
    And a listener who has no idea about jazz can say just the opposite.

  5. #29

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    That's very narcissistic, I love recording myself.
    That sounded good to me because I did it with a lot of pleasure. I was feeling good.
    I shared it in a saxophone forum.
    You should imagine what they said.

  6. #30

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    Dissatisfaction doesn't necessarily equal unhappiness. It can be a growth mindset.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Dissatisfaction doesn't necessarily equal unhappiness. It can be a growth mindset.
    Yes Sir.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    That's very narcissistic, I love recording myself.
    That sounded good to me because I did it with a lot of pleasure. I was feeling good.
    I shared it in a saxophone forum.
    You should imagine what they said.
    Ok Lionel,
    I can only say about myself. I record something and I'm always not fully satisfied with what I played.
    I am a harsh critic of myself.
    I pay attention to the feeling, rhythm, notes, consistency with the backing track, etc.I'm talking about playing-practice at home.
    Sometimes I manage to achieve it, but I'm working on it all the time.
    Imagine that you are playing a concert at a jazz festival and you want to play your best.
    Often the musicians playing in the band help a lot, but there are various strange situations.
    Is a good solo one in which the soloist shows off his virtuosity and the audience applauds?

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    ...Is a good solo one in which the soloist shows off his virtuosity and the audience applauds?
    That'd be a good enough solo :-)

    I've had strong applause for a solo when I was very distracted by a girlfriend in the audience hanging with another guy a little too warmly for my liking. While the audience was showing their appreciation I didn't feel like I had any idea what I just played, and I remember being surprised and taken aback a bit. Like... what the heck did they just hear? What's the connection if I didn't feel it?

    And the opposite: solos where I felt I was in touch with God and hardly any response. I remember one in particular that made me wonder what this whole thing was really about. Questioning what I was actually doing, and feeling the same surprise as the first example.

    As a listener or backer, a good solo for me has intent, direction, interaction with the band, hopefully some originality, and something I can feel in my guts. If it doesn't have any of that I guess I think it's a bad solo. Basically it comes down to whether I like it or not.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    That'd be a good enough solo :-)

    I've had strong applause for a solo when I was very distracted by a girlfriend in the audience hanging with another guy a little too warmly for my liking. While the audience was showing their appreciation I didn't feel like I had any idea what I just played, and I remember being surprised and taken aback a bit. Like... what the heck did they just hear? What's the connection if I didn't feel it?

    And the opposite: solos where I felt I was in touch with God and hardly any response. I remember one in particular that made me wonder what this whole thing was really about. Questioning what I was actually doing, and feeling the same surprise as the first example.

    As a listener or backer, a good solo for me has intent, direction, interaction with the band, hopefully some originality, and something I can feel in my guts. If it doesn't have any of that I guess I think it's a bad solo. Basically it comes down to whether I like it or not.
    It may be obvious to the expert, but it is worse with the casual listener.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by emanresu
    What is a bad solo?
    A bass solo.

  12. #36

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    One of the most beautiful bass solos I've ever heard... just learn from the masters...:


  13. #37

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    I’ve been recording a catalogue of bad solos on YouTube. I’d be happy to provide a link if anybody needs an example

  14. #38

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    This is simple. A good solo is one I like, and a bad solo is one I don't like.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    This is simple. A good solo is one I like, and a bad solo is one I don't like.
    What if someone likes a solo you don't like?

  16. #40

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    Yesterday, I was made to listen to a sax solo I once played. It was bad because:

    - I didn't play the changes
    - I reached for some cheap tricks
    - Intonation was off
    - the guitar player is from Kyiv, not from Moscow

    and I'd rather not remember the rest. Yet the piano player thought it was good enough to put it up on Youtube...

    I left the band.

    Not for the faint of heart:


  17. #41

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    I think there are levels to this, at least traditionally;


    Extremely bad would be: Out of time, out of key unintentionally, not knowing the instrument, instrument out of tune, no resemblance to the changes etc.

    Pretty bad: fumbling with the changes, playing without confidence, struggling with basic scales and shapes.

    Bad: playing the right key and changes but out of style. As to play a bebop tune in the style of the blues. Don’t get me wrong, a blues lick here and there is cool, but if you don’t play any bebop scales / phrases and stick to pentatonic shticks, it is still bad.

    not bad: playing the changes and time, in style, but not developing any idea, just kinda messing around.

    above this you generally get to the “good” category, and then i think it’s a matter of taste.

    actually, an exercise i sometimes do is try to play a chorus intentionally bad, which can sometimes have an interesting and sometimes opposing result, as the pressure to be “good” is gone and then some funky stuff can come about that would never surface otherwise!

  18. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    Yesterday, I was made to listen to a sax solo I once played. It was bad because:


    - the guitar player is from Kyiv, not from Moscow
    whats that now.

  19. #43

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    A bad solo !!!
    This is one !

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    What if someone likes a solo you don't like?
    It's still a bad solo. Obviously my judgments take priority over anyone else's.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    It's still a bad solo. Obviously my judgments take priority over anyone else's.
    All right.
    I also believe that if someone plays well - he plays a good solos.

  22. #46

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  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    w/all due respect to my friend Lawson, I've NEVER heard Pat Martino run out of ideas, not even for a second,
    he's a wellspring of improvisational ideas. every once in awhile I find myself using that device, maybe because it's subconsciously part of my vocabulary at this point. I never think about it but I'm sure I got it from Pat/Grant Green
    I should have been more clear: I don't think the two solos I noted are "bad" solos. I just don't like the long section of a single figure repeated. Yes, I hear what the band is doing, and yes I hear the rhythmic displacement. But for me, those sections are not musically appealing. They not only don't speak to me, they actually make me think about hitting the "next track" button. And honestly, do you guys really think that in a given session, these guys didn't momentarily have gaps in the flow of their ideas? I know it would be rare, but seriously. They are not gods, they are not perfect, and in the live moment I would not hold it against them if they filled some space while they loaded up some more ideas.

    I am grateful wintermoon's response was simply disagreement, even strong disagreement. Some of the responses reminded me of the medieval inquisition and its charges of heresy and blasphemy.

  24. #48

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    While we're at it, there is one solo that absolutely drives me crazy with delight every time I hear it. Wes Montgomery on "Smokin at the half Note" playing "Impressions" and (GASP!!) there are a long repeated sections, though he does something really fun with them. He does surprising variations. He plays with them. You can hear the musicians laughing and talking to each other through the track. I consider this track, and the whole album actually, one of the high-water marks in jazz guitar.

    this is one of those solos that makes me want to sell all my guitars and just quit.


  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I should have been more clear: I don't think the two solos I noted are "bad" solos. I just don't like the long section of a single figure repeated. Yes, I hear what the band is doing, and yes I hear the rhythmic displacement. But for me, those sections are not musically appealing. They not only don't speak to me, they actually make me think about hitting the "next track" button. And honestly, do you guys really think that in a given session, these guys didn't momentarily have gaps in the flow of their ideas? I know it would be rare, but seriously. They are not gods, they are not perfect, and in the live moment I would not hold it against them if they filled some space while they loaded up some more ideas.

    I am grateful wintermoon's response was simply disagreement, even strong disagreement. Some of the responses reminded me of the medieval inquisition and its charges of heresy and blasphemy.
    no!!!Pat does the same thing on other tunes as well.
    it's his kind of music trick...I do that sometimes at a concert too. It boosts the dynamics of the solo...really.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    While we're at it, there is one solo that absolutely drives me crazy with delight every time I hear it. Wes Montgomery on "Smokin at the half Note" playing "Impressions" and (GASP!!) there are a long repeated sections, though he does something really fun with them. He does surprising variations. He plays with them. You can hear the musicians laughing and talking to each other through the track. I consider this track, and the whole album actually, one of the high-water marks in jazz guitar.

    this is one of those solos that makes me want to sell all my guitars and just quit.

    I will gladly buy your guitars at a bargain price.