Own language or own sound?

[Christian Miller]

I notice that many of the big players of the 1950s played similar basic vocabulary (mostly taken from Bird) but all sound unique and individual. You won’t confuse Stitt for Dexter… or Brownie for Diz. Barry or Red for Bud. Or even early Wes for Grant or Jimmy Raney. Or Tal!

I think it’s interesting that the music reached this very uniform approach to changes playing at this stage… It wasn’t always this way… improvisers of the swing era were more diverse in approach (Cootie Williams famously said that everyone after Bird sounded the same. I don’t agree, but for a player as distinctive and individual as Cootie, I see where he was coming from.)

Music pedagogy often focuses on pitch choice, but often thing things that separate players are feel, tone, phrasing, articulation and so on - how they play rather than what they play.

These days I feel like players express their voice more through what they play, not how they play. However I feel the players who have remained at the forefront of jazz guitar - Sco, Kurt, Pat etc - all have very distinctive *sounds* and maybe this is no coincidence.

[kris]

I notice that many of the big players of the 1950s played similar basic vocabulary (mostly taken from Bird) but all sound unique and individual. You won’t confuse Stitt for Dexter… or Brownie for Diz. Barry or Red for Bud. Or even early Wes for Grant or Jimmy Raney. Or Tal!

I think it’s interesting that the music reached this very uniform approach to changes playing at this stage… It wasn’t always this way… improvisers of the swing era were more diverse in approach (Cootie Williams famously said that everyone after Bird sounded the same. I don’t agree, but for a player as distinctive and individual as Cootie, I see where he was coming from.)

Music pedagogy often focuses on pitch choice, but often thing things that separate players are feel, tone, phrasing, articulation and so on - how they play rather than what they play.

These days I feel like players express their voice more through what they play, not how they play. However I feel the players who have remained at the forefront of jazz guitar - Sco, Kurt, Pat etc - all have very distinctive *sounds* and maybe this is no coincidence.

Perhaps the style in which they play has a big impact on the recognizability of these musicians... fusion, hard bop, latin etc.

[Litterick]

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for? All is silver-grey,
Placid and perfect with my art: the worse!

Robert Browning, Andrea del Sarto

[ruger9]

This is an age old question, I've thought about it my whole life, and I have decided it doesn't have an answer.

Yes, you can break it down to which players have certain licks they play alot, or maybe phrasing, but the bottom line is, you recognize the players you do because their "sound/style" is literally WHO THEY ARE, they can't play any other way.

I watched Brian Setzer try to play straight blues. He can't- he can only sound like Brian Setzer.
I've seen Eric Johnson try to play jazzier when playing with Mike Stern- he can't, he is always obviously Eric.

It's trademark licks, it's phrasing, it's tone, but it's also that the whole is greater than the sum of these parts; with rare exceptions (like Wes who is instantly recognizable, even to beginners, due to his heavy use of octaves), it's more than all these things that create an individual sound that is instantly recognizable.

[princeplanet]

I notice that many of the big players of the 1950s played similar basic vocabulary (mostly taken from Bird) but all sound unique and individual. You won’t confuse Stitt for Dexter… or Brownie for Diz. Barry or Red for Bud. Or even early Wes for Grant or Jimmy Raney. Or Tal!

...

Well, if you divide (arbitrarily) all Jazz players into 2 columns, say a Bird column and a Trane column, you find thousands of ways players fit under either one, not to mention some that skirt the margins of both, right?

There are endless ways to do the Bop thing and it pretty much gets down to how close you wanna stick to the source- do you wanna base your vocab on Bird's, or do you wanna find your own way to dance around the chord tones/extensions/alterations?

Personally, I choose to attempt the latter because it's more rewarding. It's harder to find ways that "sound good" that way, because many good things have already been found by others. You could say that millions if not billions of hours have already been collectively spent by all Jazz improvisors of all levels from all over for over a hundred years, so you'd think they've already thought of every which way to put phrases together in a Jazz style. But as in any Art form, there can always be a new twist added to the "same 'ol" in the hope to start your own micro sub-niche. It doesn't have to be appreciated by anyone else other than yourself, after all, it's just art for art's sake. But for those that toil in the margins, there is also the hope that the art form is kept alive. Protecting the flame as opposed to worshipping the ashes...

You can't argue with Raney's advice to go cop some Parker licks, but I'm sure he would also have suggested, once you've done that enough, to now go "roll your own, motherfuckers!"

[st.bede]

Personal limitation is, in part, what makes a person sound they way they do. There are always limitations. Even having incredible technique, creates its’ own limitations. There is also, always another level deeper.

[Christian Miller]

Perhaps the style in which they play has a big impact on the recognizability of these musicians... fusion, hard bop, latin etc.

No, in the sense that I still think they remain very recognisable when they play straight ahead. Or an acoustic guitar for that matter.

[Christian Miller]

For instance, Kurt playing Bach on a nylon string guitar still sounds like, well, Kurt

i mean it’s not a ‘legit’ classical performance, but it does show how he can’t ‘switch off’ musical personality. Some might say that’s a weakness - that he can’t (or won’t) play kosher classical guitar. I see it as a strength.

[rpjazzguitar]

Would I recognize Wes on a Tele? I think so, because his melodic style was as distinctive as his tone.

Santana on an archtop without a Boogie? Probably not.

Vintage Metheny with the delays? Maybe.