When is a jam session successful?

**Lionelsax** · 11-16-2022, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by kris

I don't know what other people think, but I think that musicians should know the songs that are played on jam.
Jam session shouldn't be a place where musicians are just learning tunes.
What do you think about it?

When people have fun and when the ones who are playing communicate, laugh, watching each other instead of watching a tablet or a phone to understand which tune they are playing.

**Doctor Jeff** · 11-16-2022, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Well everyone should be able to work out what the jam session is for and what the level is, it's not always a top down thing. If there are clearly very good professional musicians playing tunes like Stablemates a high level, that sets one vibe. If it's more a workshop situation with learners playing through repertoire, different situation again.

A good/high level jam need not be snotty or exclusive, but at the same time give you a moment of excitement or energy perhaps a little nervousness on taking the stage. In fact, they are often unpretentious and inspiring. And even if the player isn't quite up to the mark yet, if they are keen, have a good attitude and are clearly hungry to improve, they are welcomed. I know I got inspired by such jams early on.

Actually some of the snottiest and most difficult jams with entitled people seem to be intermediate level. The old D-K kicks in. I speak for myself haha.

Generally, though, it works out.

If it comes to it and things are coming off the rails I guess its up to the person who runs the jam to sort it out. That can be done in a very light touch way.

I mean it's a hell of a job lol. Not sure I want to run jam, although I'm told I'm quite good at being firm with people in a nice way so that probably qualifies me. OTOH I've not always been the best jam session attendee. I used to take it all way too seriously.

Ultimately it's all in the community one nurtures.

Reminds me 100% of when I tried to get good at golf. (It didn't work out.)

Many many pursuits are like this. It's always the people who think they know a bit you have to watch out for.

**JazzPadd** · 11-17-2022, 07:46 AM

To me, a successful jam session often looks something like this.
When is a jam session successful?-19576697-c1a0-4a57-903d-8eb7f7afe486-jpeg

**KingKong** · 11-17-2022, 12:51 PM

On the subject of jams, here's a question from a veteran of many rock/blues ones but not jazz....

So say someone calls a tune, e.g. summertime, where it can be played in a few different ways...
E.g. if you look it up you will find various versions that do and don't have 2-5 s in certain places.

So how do you decide which specific one you are going to play?

Same I guess for some one calling 'blues in f'..... Could be interpreted as a boring 12 bar or one of the more complicated jazz blues progressions that throw in 2-5 s along the way.

Are there standard conventions around certain tunes so that e.g. if some one calls e.g. 'blues in f', everyone knows that it's a specific progression and not a different one?

Thanks for any info, this issue is one of the things that is putting me off rocking up at a jazz one a little.

**John A.** · 11-17-2022, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by KingKong

On the subject of jams, here's a question from a veteran of many rock/blues ones but not jazz....

So say someone calls a tune, e.g. summertime, where it can be played in a few different ways...
E.g. if you look it up you will find various versions that do and don't have 2-5 s in certain places.

So how do you decide which specific one you are going to play?

It's a bit of a gray area. Generally speaking, the person who calls the tune should specify key, rhythm, and arrangement/version, which may or may not trigger discussion. But for the vast majority of tunes there are standard changes and it doesn't come up. Some tunes are notoriously problematic for jams because of these ambiguities, and you don't often see them being called.

Originally Posted by KingKong

Same I guess for some one calling 'blues in f'..... Could be interpreted as a boring 12 bar or one of the more complicated jazz blues progressions that throw in 2-5 s along the way.

Are there standard conventions around certain tunes so that e.g. if some one calls e.g. 'blues in f', everyone knows that it's a specific progression and not a different one?

Best practice is to call a specific tune, not just blues generically. So, if someone calls, say, Au Privave vs Freddie Freeloader, people will know which changes are coming. Absent that, the default is "jazz blues" changes (i.e., |I7| IV7 | I7 | I7 | IV7 | IV7 | I7 | VI7 (or vi) | II7 (or ii) | V7 | I7 V7 (or vi) | II7 (or ii) | V7 |. The caller should also specify tempo and rhythmic feel.

Originally Posted by KingKong

Thanks for any info, this issue is one of the things that is putting me off rocking up at a jazz one a little.

That and being a giant gorilla who keeps getting distracted by bananas on the Chrysler Building

**rpjazzguitar** · 11-17-2022, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

It's a bit of a gray area. Generally speaking, the person who calls the tune should specify key, rhythm, and arrangement/version, which may or may not trigger discussion. But for the vast majority of tunes there are standard changes and it doesn't come up. Some tunes are notoriously problematic for jams because of these ambiguities, and you don't often see them being called.

Best practice is to call a specific tune, not just blues generically. So, if someone calls, say, Au Privave vs Freddie Freeloader, people will know which changes are coming. Absent that, the default is "jazz blues" changes (i.e., |I7| IV7 | I7 | I7 | IV7 | IV7 | I7 | VI7 (or vi) | II7 (or ii) | V7 | I7 V7 (or vi) | II7 (or ii) | V7 |. The caller should also specify tempo and rhythmic feel.

That and being a giant gorilla who keeps getting distracted by bananas on the Chrysler Building

In a group, there's often a player who assumes a kind of alpha role. So, people will listen to that player's changes and fit in with them. It's usually the pianist, if there is one. Could be the guitarist (usually when there's no piano). Could be the bassist, although it may be a little harder to follow just a bass note, depending on the harmony. I guess a horn player could do it by making the changes clear in his lines, but I haven't seen that much.

It requires a basic skill that we usually talk about as ear training. More specifically, it's the ability to hear a chord in the piano and know what it is. By name is nice, but recognizing the sound and being able to find it on the guitar without naming it is fine too.

**KingKong** · 11-17-2022, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

In a group, there's often a player who assumes a kind of alpha role. So, people will listen to that player's changes and fit in with them. It's usually the pianist, if there is one. Could be the guitarist (usually when there's no piano). Could be the bassist, although it may be a little harder to follow just a bass note, depending on the harmony. I guess a horn player could do it by making the changes clear in his lines, but I haven't seen that much.

It requires a basic skill that we usually talk about as ear training. More specifically, it's the ability to hear a chord in the piano and know what it is. By name is nice, but recognizing the sound and being able to find it on the guitar without naming it is fine too.

To be fair as far as I can remember the variations in stuff I've seen so far have been sticking in 2-5s at places where you can take em or leave em and they're pretty obvious if someone plays them on a piano, by both sound and point of insertion.

**KingKong** · 11-17-2022, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

That and being a giant gorilla who keeps getting distracted by bananas on the Chrysler Building

All I did was swim over there to jam in the Cotton Club and they decided to frame me. Greatest chest player of the 1930's I was.

**Christian Miller** · 11-17-2022, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by KingKong

On the subject of jams, here's a question from a veteran of many rock/blues ones but not jazz....

So say someone calls a tune, e.g. summertime, where it can be played in a few different ways...
E.g. if you look it up you will find various versions that do and don't have 2-5 s in certain places.

So how do you decide which specific one you are going to play?

Same I guess for some one calling 'blues in f'..... Could be interpreted as a boring 12 bar or one of the more complicated jazz blues progressions that throw in 2-5 s along the way.

Are there standard conventions around certain tunes so that e.g. if some one calls e.g. 'blues in f', everyone knows that it's a specific progression and not a different one?

Thanks for any info, this issue is one of the things that is putting me off rocking up at a jazz no one a little.

at a jazz jam people tend to call specific blues tunes (eg Tenor Madness or Au Privave) which usually indicate particular changes. Some tunes will be more ‘rootsy’ some more convoluted.

Otoh if you are winging a tune that you don’t know, usually they’ll say ‘blues in f’ maybe the variant ‘go to IV in bar 10’ or ‘Parker blues ‘ etc; otherwise you go with the context and your lugholes. In most instances the standard jazz changes will work well enough…

**paulkogut** · 11-17-2022, 05:56 PM

Some of it comes down to experience, knowing the repertoire, the possibilities of alternate changes, and the likelihood of who might play what

If the pianist was noodling on My Man's Gone Now while the band set up, you'll probably be playing How Deep Is The Ocean a certain way

If the tenor player keeps quoting Stranger In Paradise on the turnarounds, watch for the half-step subs on Autumn Leaves

If there's an old old RealBook on the music stand, expect some funny changes on Four, and if anyone calls Desifinado, run...

PK

**st.bede** · 11-17-2022, 07:11 PM

I know it is crazy but the Age of Enlightenment destroyed Jazz. I am still reeling from that moment. Thank god, I have internalized enough David Hume, to make it through this loss.