Hearing

[Jonathan0996]

The “Silence” thread got me wondering how many people here have hearing issues.

I’m getting to the point where I’m starting to think about hearing aids. Do musicians here find them to be a help or a hindrance when playing? I keep wondering if my guitar sounds the way I think it sounds onstage. Am I hearing it accurately? Is it too bright? I’m not sure how to correct for a loss of high frequency hearing, except maybe to ask other musicians how it sounds.

How do others manage this?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

At 75, I’m still hearing well. I have some high frequency sensitivity loss on audiometry, but I’m not missing anything in conversation, on TV etc. My instruments and others sound “right” to me. I’m probably missing some of the spectrum above 2 to 4 kHz, which would affect fine timbral distinctions etc. But overall, my hearing is still much better than just serviceable.

I’ve used foam plugs for many years and IEMs for several months. I wish I’d gone to IEMs when they came out- they protect against noise induced hearing loss and make it a lot easier to hear both the band and how I sound within it.

[ruger9]

I have tinnitus, so I was expecting my hearing to be worse than I actually tested recently. A pleasant surprise.

[garybaldy]

I put "It's been better" but my right ear is pretty much shot. The quality of sound is similar to a quiet transistor radio like we had in the 60s. All down to playing in very loud rock bands in my youth. My left ear still retains a degree of tone but has a degree of deafness. So my wife is ways shouting at me!! And what with the constant tinnitus......

[rpjazzguitar]

I put "It's been better" but my right ear is pretty much shot. The quality of sound is similar to a quiet transistor radio like we had in the 60s. All down to playing in very loud rock bands in my youth. My left ear still retains a degree of tone but has a degree of deafness. So my wife is ways shouting at me!! And what with the constant tinnitus......

My hearing is similar to yours. Sensorineuron hearing loss in one ear and high frequency loss in the other. I use earplugs as soon as things get even a little loud. I had the etymotic custom plugs but I've been just as happy with Hear-os.

I'm not quite deaf enough to make an appointment for hearing aids, but I can see (not hear) something at the end of the tunnel.

I'm also concerned about what hearing aids will do to my perception of music -- although my hearing seems to be okay for playing live.

I am unable to EQ a recording because everybody I work with hears things I don't. Usually percussion.

[frankhond]

I have hearing loss in both ears, most in the right one, due to getting streptomycin as a kid. Never could hear the baby birds in the forest, or cymbals in a mix. And I suppose I never heard how a guitar really sounds like. This hasn’t improved with age. I have good quality hearing aids which I wear at work to not annoy colleagues with "what". There is a music setting that makes live music much more interesting, I can hear cymbals again.

But my acoustic guitar sounds unnatural, I hear the strings buzz against the frets really loudly - with the music setting I can adjust the volume up and down, and the buzzing follows. When I ask people if the hear my guitar buzz they all say no. This is less of an issue with flatwounds, especially on an amplified archtop.

At higher volumes it becomes too much and at funkband practice I’ll wear earplugs instead.

My hearing is like a low pass filter, with the hearing aids like a frequency control turned to the right some, but everything above some threshold is gone. Ultimately it’s hard to know what my guitar really sounds like… But doesn’t everyone hear things differently anyway, so is the question even meaningful?

[Jonathan0996]

A recent test showed that I had "moderate" hearing loss above 2k, so I guess I'm in the "it's been better" camp. I've had to ask my wife to repeat herself a little too often (which annoys her), although she frequently talks to me from the other room, so I think that test should be graded on a curve. I also noticed lately that I had to goose up the EQ above 1,000 hz on my car stereo. A couple years ago I had it sloping down from flat slightly. My guitar still sounds good to my ears, though. I'm not sure I'm not tearing other peoples' heads off with it, but I guess that'll be their problem. Nobody has said anything about an ice pick in the ear.

Given all of that and all the talk there is about hearing loss and dementia, I'm thinking it may be time to try some hearing aids. There are a million questions remaining, of course, but I won't bore you all with them. Old age ain't for sissies.

[ccroft]

I put "It's been better" but my right ear is pretty much shot. The quality of sound is similar to a quiet transistor radio like we had in the 60s. All down to playing in very loud rock bands in my youth. My left ear still retains a degree of tone but has a degree of deafness. So my wife is ways shouting at me!! And what with the constant tinnitus......

Let me guess: you generally set up on stage left? I always did, and the description of your hearing fits me to a tee. I can blame my right ear directly on our sax player's monitor, which he always wanted louder and which usually pointed directly at my right ear hole and his knees. About 8 years of that. Unfortunately, 50 years ago I didn't know the ringing I heard after a gig was the sound of hearing damage. I really didn't notice it much until I hit 64 or 65.

Left ear: "It's been better". Right ear: "Shot to hell". I voted for my left ear. Glass half full kinda guy I guess... :-)

[fep]

I thought it was really good but I tested and can't hear above 13.5 khz. I'm 64.

[Vladan]

Age 55.

I have a lots of tinnitus and couple of dips at 2-3 k in both ears, asymmetrically. I like to think that they are complementary.

Above 8 k pretty much does not matter for receiving necessary information. 10K is a plenty. 16k is as good as full range.

For example, the fundamental of high E at 24th fret is 1.32 K. Standard guitar loudspeakers cut off at 4-5 K ... and so on.

[RJVB]

I have hearing loss in both ears, most in the right one, due to getting streptomycin as a kid.

You don't have balance problems as well, I hope?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Old age ain't for sissies.

We grow old too soon and smart too late

[citizenk74]

A recent test showed that I had "moderate" hearing loss above 2k, so I guess I'm in the "it's been better" camp. I've had to ask my wife to repeat herself a little too often (which annoys her), although she frequently talks to me from the other room, so I think that test should be graded on a curve. I also noticed lately that I had to goose up the EQ above 1,000 hz on my car stereo. A couple years ago I had it sloping down from flat slightly. My guitar still sounds good to my ears, though. I'm not sure I'm not tearing other peoples' heads off with it, but I guess that'll be their problem. Nobody has said anything about an ice pick in the ear.

Given all of that and all the talk there is about hearing loss and dementia, I'm thinking it may be time to try some hearing aids. There are a million questions remaining, of course, but I won't bore you all with them. Old age ain't for sissies.

Decent hearing instruments are not cheap - 6k$ in my case - but they are well worth it. Modern designs can be pin-point focused on frequency loss, and custom-fitted (tonally and physically) to your individual needs. Don't wait - you don't know what you are missing until it is (even partially) restored. What good is a fine guitar if you can't hear its full glory?

[frankhond]

You don't have balance problems as well, I hope?

No. Reading about the damage that happened to some other children I have to consider myself lucky.

[sgosnell]

I don't notice any hearing loss, but I haven't had a hearing test in many years. I had a career as a helicopter pilot, after Army service, so my only guess is that I took care of my hearing over the years, always wearing hearing protection and avoiding loud noises as best I could, even, or especially, involving music. I suspect I may have some high frequency loss because I prefer a brighter tone than I used to, but it's not enough for me to notice. Gradual changes can be hard to detect.

[Jonathan0996]

Decent hearing instruments are not cheap - 6k$ in my case - but they are well worth it. Modern designs can be pin-point focused on frequency loss, and custom-fitted (tonally and physically) to your individual needs. Don't wait - you don't know what you are missing until it is (even partially) restored. What good is a fine guitar if you can't hear its full glory?

Good point. The Kirkland Signature 10s at Costco seem to be getting very good reviews and they’re only $1,400. I’m thinking they might be worth a try, since I only have moderate hearing loss.

[citizenk74]

You don't have balance problems as well, I hope?

May I inquire, why the reference to balance problems?

[AlsoRan]

May I inquire, why the reference to balance problems?

Citizen74,

Some people with hearing and inner ear issues have balance problems, which may be why he asked. I hope you don't have to deal with that particular problem.

As far as the thread goes, you can count me in the Tinnitus group as well. When I go out in the country, deep in the woods, and I try to sleep, I can hear those angels singing loudly. It is not as bad when I am in town. Just a constant ring, and thank God, no gurgling or cracking sounds.

[citizenk74]

Citizen74,

Some people with hearing and inner ear issues have balance problems, which may be why he asked. I hope you don't have to deal with that particular problem.

As far as the thread goes, you can count me in the Tinnitus group as well. When I go out in the country, deep in the woods, and I try to sleep, I can hear those angels singing loudly. It is not as bad when I am in town. Just a constant ring, and thank God, no gurgling or cracking sounds.

As a matter of fact, my equilibrium/balance issues are more than mild. Standing, if I close my eyes, I pitch forward (or back, but mostly forward). If I blink, it's got to be quick. I need to be holding on to something to orient myself. I mentioned this to my PCP and he thought it was probably age-related. Given the unholy racket in my head, I thought there must be a connection. Thanks for the info.
Edited to add: There is also my history of concussions. It's complicated.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

May I inquire, why the reference to balance problems?

Streptomycin is an antibiotic in the aminoglycoside group, all of which are toxic to the inner ear. So hearing loss and balance problems are both side effects of all aminoglycosides. But some cause more damage to the cochlea than to the vestibular apparatus, while others cause more vestibular problems than cochlear. Streptomycin is in the latter group, so it’s more likely to affect balance than hearing. Others (eg gentamicin) are more likely to cause hearing loss.

Any of them can cause either or both, but these are side effects that do not happen to most people. The few times I’ve needed medication, I made sure my docs knew that I’m a musician and chose meds with a lower likelihood of causing hearing loss when there were alternatives.

As we age and lose hearing sensitivity from noise exposure, meds, head trauma, infections etc, it’s even more important to protect the hearing that remains. Common drugs can cause ringing and hearing loss, eg some diuretics, aspirin etc. Be careful what you take and discuss it with your doctor. Your hearing is like your teeth - you only have to protect what you want to keep.

[RJVB]

Streptomycin is an antibiotic in the aminoglycoside group, all of which are toxic to the inner ear.[...]
Your hearing is like your teeth - you only have to protect what you want to keep.

Thanks for explaining ototoxicity in my place

I'm not sure I can agree with the last part. Teeth can be replaced if you lose them completely. Your hearing can't. One day in the future maybe, but my guess is the replacement will focus on whatever subset of or auditory capabilities are considered useful at that time.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm not sure I can agree with the last part. Teeth can be replaced if you lose them completely. Your hearing can't.

Dental replacements function as well in comparison to natural teeth as a cheap laminated top would if grafted onto an L5 that had its original top destroyed. No dental prosthesis of any kind is as comfortable and natural in feel and function as your own teeth. Implants are well tolerated up to a point. But their failure rate is significant and the restorations placed over them require major daily cleaning and maintenance if they're to have a decent chance of long term survival. And full arch restorations are placed over 4 or 6 implants. The forces of chewing (which are a lot higher than the forces applied to the structures of a guitar by a set of heavy flatties) are normally distributed among 16 abutments in each arch. So implants are asked to dissipate more than twice the force sustained by each tooth in a natural arch (even after the common removal of 3rd molars). This is an attempt to violate the laws of physics.

Removable full dentures are a terrible compromise. They cover a lot of soft tissue, including the entire palate - so there's a total lack of temperature sensation and feeling in the roof of the mouth and in the gums. They do not adapt in response to the natural changes in the contour of the hard and soft tissues beneath them, so the edges of the flanges begin to dig into the underlying tissue and they need to be relined or replaced every few years for maximum comfort / minimal discomfort. Food and foreign material like seeds get under them and cause endless discomfort. Most denture wearers use paste in a futile attempt to make them stay in place. They're a very poor substitute for healthy natural teeth.

The main reason people tolerate extensive and expensive restorations like these at all is that their remaining natural teeth were in such terrible shape that the freedom from discomfort, instability, bad breath, dietary restrictions etc was worth the tradeoff. It's analogous to the fact that hearing aids are no substitute for natural hearing - but they're better than being unable to hear conversation, fire alarms, and oncoming trains. BTW, even with profound hearing loss of most kinds, a modern cochlear implant is highly likely to restore serviceable hearing. Like a hearing aid, this is no substitute or replacement for natural hearing - but it enables communication.

The human body is a complex structure running multiple complex systems. It comes with no warranty, no shop manual, no user instructions, no service organization, no help desk, and no availability of spare parts. It's entrusted to rank amateurs who haven't the knowledge, skill or desire to take proper care of it. Despite all that, most humans take their bodies for granted, abuse them terribly, and can't understand why they don't hold up forever.

[sgosnell]

Dental implants are certainly far from perfect, but they do work. There are currently no hearing implants AFAIK. Working well enough is far better than not working at all.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

There are currently no hearing implants AFAIK.

Yes there are. Cochlear implants have been in common use for 20+ years. They’re not helpful for all kinds of hearing loss, but many thousands of people have had successful restoration of serviceable hearing with them. The first one was placed 60 years ago, but it was rudimentary. Modern CIs are quite sophisticated and are considered routine care for people with the right indications.

Successful CI recipients can hear and interpret speech well, so they can communicate. Unfortunately, the current generation of devices is not yet very good for music. But that’s probably coming too.

[Ukena]

[...] The forces of chewing (which are a lot higher than the forces applied to the structures of a guitar by a set of heavy flatties) are normally distributed among 16 abutments in each arch. [..]

I learned in one of my anthropology classes (in the the previous century) that the masseter is the strongest muscle in the body, and can exert a force of 200 lbs on the molars, and 55 lbs on the incisors. That's a lot of force. A couple of implants in different areas of the jaw might survive that kind of force (I have 3, scattered around my mouth), since the force is also distributed among number of real teeth; but I can't imagine the toll that kind of force would take on a row of implants, let alone a bridge.