Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Posts 26 to 50 of 69
  1. #26

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    You're the one that posted this "it's best to have girlfriends who are models and stay in the background. Don't interfere with the work too much, ladies".

    It appears you really didn't need to mention "models" at all: I.e. the statement could have just been: it's best to have partners who stay in the background. Don't interfere with the work too much".

    But you did say "models".
    To be honest I was being a bit cheeky, but I only mentioned models because most of them dated and/or married models: Paul was engaged to Jane Asher and married Heather Mills, George married Pattie Boyd, and Ringo married Barbara Bach. Lennon also had affairs with many models while he was married.

    The Rolling Stones are another example of a band where the members seemed to have gravitated toward models as girlfriends.

    If I had wanted to say something explicitly chauvinistic, I could have picked any number of cruder examples.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    To be honest I was being a bit cheeky, but I only mentioned models because most of them dated and/or married models: Paul was engaged to Jane Asher and married Heather Mills, George married Pattie Boyd, and Ringo married Barbara Bach. Lennon also had affairs with many models while he was married.

    The Rolling Stones are another example of a band where the members seemed to have gravitated toward models as girlfriends.

    If I had wanted to say something explicitly chauvinistic, I could have picked any number of cruder examples.
    All as planned by MK Ultra.

  4. #28

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    John was always the mother hen in the group. More life experience. I think Yoko got sick of him complaining about the band all the time and said, why don't you quit?
    Nailed it!*

    * I speak from experience.

  5. #29

    User Info Menu

    I love the Beatles, but I kinda felt like I was watching a bunch of tired guys trying to figure out how to "half-ass" put together a gig they had to do. They all seemed like they'd rather be doing something else.

  6. #30

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo
    I love the Beatles, but I kinda felt like I was watching a bunch of tired guys trying to figure out how to "half-ass" put together a gig they had to do. They all seemed like they'd rather be doing something else.
    As they very soon were...

    Agree...it's like Scenes from a Marriage. Still intriguing to watch the process of making these last 2 great albums, and to see what happened as they were reaching the end of their partnership.

  7. #31

    User Info Menu

    John said Paul was with the SS.

  8. #32
    Haven’t finished it, as I’m slammed with holiday stuff and I want to be able to actually sit down. But I have thoroughly enjoyed diving back in.

    I am a serious fan, but not a super fan, (haven’t seen everything/heard everything ever released). I didn’t know about the “naked” remasters of let it be Album until Rick Beato pointed them out. Those versions of let it be and long and winding road have been some of the best finds for me personally. Never really enjoyed/understood those tunes in the original album versions.

    I also really enjoyed the making-of interviews and documentaries with Peter Jackson etc on YouTube. Rick beato’s Is great.

    My biggest takeaways from the film so far:

    This material does a lot to reconcile the seemingly contradictory ideas that Yoko ruined everything or that the band was mostly OK with her. Both of these seem to make more sense in this context and can kind of live together.

    It really confirms the fact that we mostly don’t remember things clearly from the past, the way we think we do. There have been a lot of studies on this regarding recollections for courtroom testimony etc and it’s a neuroscience thing that’s pretty well-established I guess. Anyway, the whole thing was surprisingly more POSITIVES than I ever would’ve thought. In a lot of ways, it seems we remember things mostly through pictures etc. I’d imagine that the original let it be film had BECOME their memory of events in a lot of ways.

    It’s just an overall great insight into the creative process for a lot of us “normals”. To me, this film feels like I kind of analog in video form for the kind of vibe I got from reading Bob Dylan’s Chronicles. (That book is so nonlinear, in a lot of ways stream of consciousness, and I think if you described it to me verbally, I would’ve said it’s the kind of thing I wouldn’t be interested in reading.) Anyway, I was very surprised at how much I really liked that format, and the same is true with this film.

    I just love all of the new audio/video. Crazy amount of unseen footage, at least this quality or these mixes. Reminded me of my unforeseen awe At the new mixes I got to hear when I got Beatles rock band for my kids back in 2009. (By the way, if you’re a super fan and you’ve never played all the instruments and Vox on that game, you haven’t heard all of the mixes. :-). Just saying.)

    The technology used in creating the the film itself is fascinating. Check out Peter Jackson’s interviews where he talks about the machine learning that was used to extract multiple tracks out of the original mono audio tapes, and even extract inaudible dialogue etc. It’s pretty fascinating in and of itself.

  9. #33

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Haven’t finished it, as I’m slammed with holiday stuff and I want to be able to actually sit down. But I have thoroughly enjoyed diving back in.

    I am a serious fan, but not a super fan, (haven’t seen everything/heard everything ever released). I didn’t know about the “naked” remasters of let it be Album until Rick Beato pointed them out. Those versions of let it be and long and winding road have been some of the best finds for me personally. Never really enjoyed/understood those tunes in the original album versions.

    I also really enjoyed the making-of interviews and documentaries with Peter Jackson etc on YouTube. Rick beato’s Is great.

    My biggest takeaways from the film so far:

    This material does a lot to reconcile the seemingly contradictory ideas that Yoko ruined everything or that the band was mostly OK with her. Both of these seem to make more sense in this context and can kind of live together.

    It really confirms the fact that we mostly don’t remember things clearly from the past, the way we think we do. There have been a lot of studies on this regarding recollections for courtroom testimony etc and it’s a neuroscience thing that’s pretty well-established I guess. Anyway, the whole thing was surprisingly more POSITIVES than I ever would’ve thought. In a lot of ways, it seems we remember things mostly through pictures etc. I’d imagine that the original let it be film had BECOME their memory of events in a lot of ways.

    It’s just an overall great insight into the creative process for a lot of us “normals”. To me, this film feels like I kind of analog in video form for the kind of vibe I got from reading Bob Dylan’s Chronicles. (That book is so nonlinear, in a lot of ways stream of consciousness, and I think if you described it to me verbally, I would’ve said it’s the kind of thing I wouldn’t be interested in reading.) Anyway, I was very surprised at how much I really liked that format, and the same is true with this film.

    I just love all of the new audio/video. Crazy amount of unseen footage, at least this quality or these mixes. Reminded me of my unforeseen awe At the new mixes I got to hear when I got Beatles rock band for my kids back in 2009. (By the way, if you’re a super fan and you’ve never played all the instruments and Vox on that game, you haven’t heard all of the mixes. :-). Just saying.)

    The technology used in creating the the film itself is fascinating. Check out Peter Jackson’s interviews where he talks about the machine learning that was used to extract multiple tracks out of the original mono audio tapes, and even extract inaudible dialogue etc. It’s pretty fascinating in and of itself.
    I agree with everything said, but as was pointed out above the director as an editor has an incredible amount of control in the vantage point he/she presents to the audience. Jackson's POV is probably better than Lindsay-Hogg's, i.e., more "accurate," but it's a manufactured view nonetheless.

    That is true about memory though. (Cf Errol Morris amazing documentary works.) For example, after going through a divorce, I have a hard time seeing the marriage as anything other than a slog, though I know objectively that wasn't true.

    I will have to relisten to the Glyn Johns' mix. I have the Naked CD, but TBH I find the songs like LAWR missing something without all the Phil Spector additions.

  10. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I agree with everything said, but as was pointed out above the director as an editor has an incredible amount of control in the vantage point he/she presents to the audience. Jackson's POV is probably better than Lindsay-Hogg's, i.e., more "accurate," but it's a manufactured view nonetheless.

    That is true about memory though. (Cf Errol Morris amazing documentary works.) For example, after going through a divorce, I have a hard time seeing the marriage as anything other than a slog, though I know objectively that wasn't true.

    I will have to relisten to the Glyn Johns' mix. I have the Naked CD, but TBH I find the songs like LAWR missing something without all the Phil Spector additions.
    That’s interesting. I really think the negative space sets off McCartney’s vocal phrasing, but I came later to this stuff than many, I’d think. I didn’t grow up with it.

    Re. bias in editing/story telling, I completely agree. I just thought that this footage gave some additional credibility to the “other side”... or even that it provided a context for both coexisting.

  11. #35

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    That’s interesting. I really think the negative space sets off McCartney’s vocal phrasing, but I came later to this stuff than many, I’d think. I didn’t grow up with it.

    Re. bias in editing/story telling, I completely agree. I just thought that this footage gave some additional credibility to the “other side”... or even that it provided a context for both coexisting.
    Yes certainly there can be more than one fact...the Beatles were great friends and creative geniuses, AND they were insufferable and louche and on each other's nerves all the time.

  12. #36

    User Info Menu

    Well this one started exactly as I imagined; a bunch of guys who have spent too much time together eating sandwiches and making passive aggressive comments.

    Honestly I found Paul’s behaviour in the first episode insufferable and it’s like watching a slow motion car crash how much he’s winding up George and how oblivious to it he is, especially when George makes that famous comment saying ‘I’ll do what you want but you don’t know what you want’ which goes completely over Paul’s head.

    The whole first episode is excruciating yet compelling. It’s also interesting how ropey they could sound one minute and the next just miraculously be the Beatles.

    Ringo is consolidating his status as my favourite Beatle. What a trouper. Some people just have the right personality for the job.

    And then George leaves and the whole thing gets more interesting. Paul shows vulnerability if not anything resembling actual self awareness. John is by turns disconnected, hilariously acerbic and remarkably perceptive. Often extremely irritating too. The bit where he refuses to talk in anything but song lyrics is… well, revealing. The way they deal with the trauma of George leaving is fascinating. A couple of moments are almost unbearably poignant.

    I have no idea how people have watched this and said that this represents a joyful process for them… or that they were ‘goofing around’; there’s a forced awkward quality to all of this. It just seems like a horrible situation.

    I’ve got up to the studio move. I’ll be watching the rest of this, a little at a time. It’s certainly a thing.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 12-08-2021 at 04:46 AM.

  13. #37

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Well this one started exactly as I imagined; a bunch of guys who have spent too much time together eating sandwiches and making passive aggressive comments.

    Honestly I found Paul’s behaviour in the first episode insufferable and it’s like watching a slow motion car crash how much he’s winding up George and how oblivious to it he is, especially when George makes that famous comment saying ‘I’ll do what you want but you don’t know what you want’ which goes completely over Paul’s head.

    The whole first episode is excruciating yet compelling. It’s also interesting how ropey they could sound one minute and the next just miraculously be the Beatles.

    Ringo is consolidating his status as my favourite Beatle. What a trouper. Some people just have the right personality for the job.

    And then George leaves and the whole thing gets more interesting. Paul shows vulnerability if not anything resembling actual self awareness. John is by turns disconnected, hilariously acerbic and remarkably perceptive. Often extremely irritating too. The bit where he refuses to talk in anything but song lyrics is… well, revealing. The way they deal with the trauma of George leaving is fascinating. A couple of moments are almost unbearably poignant.

    I have no idea how people have watched this and said that this represents a joyful process for them… or that they were ‘goofing around’; there’s a forced awkward quality to all of this. It just seems like a horrible situation.

    I’ve got up to the studio move. I’ll be watching the rest of this, a little at a time. It’s certainly a thing.
    Ringo was perfect for the band. He could play and listen and he didn't have the baggage that went back to their pimp house days in Hamburg. The others Beatles gigged there a lot.
    Those were the kind of gigs that could make you go to church and say, forgive me Jesus. I've been bad.

  14. #38

    User Info Menu

    Interesting take on Yoko as a performance artist:

    The Sublime Spectacle of Yoko Ono Disrupting the Beatles - The New York Times

    I agree with this observation.

    Think of it--you have the 4 main musicians, whose relationship and creative process are being intruded on and even disrupted by a couple of external forces--Michael Lindsay-Hogg and his camera (though he was a well-known presence to the boys), the various managers and producers who pop in from time to time to bring up their specific interests, and then there's Yoko.

    Yoko was clearly the most disruptive presence there, whether she was ACTIVELY interfering with the relationship of the Beatles or not. But I think she knew she was having an effect on the group, and John probably wanted her there precisely for that reason.

    Whether the Beatles benefitted from this disruption is another question that bears more analysis. They were clearly worn out and running out of steam. If Yoko hadn't been in the picture, would that have made a difference? Would they have Come Together (pun intended) and continued on like the Stones did in '69 until they all dropped dead of natural causes? One can only wonder.

  15. #39

    User Info Menu

    One After 909. The Glyn Johns mix. Take a listen with headphones.

    It's strange and somewhat jarring to hear John and Paul's vocals separated left and right, and yet it adds a sort of casual realism--like two guys sitting there jamming--that I found charming after I got used to it.

    It reminds me how much my ears are married to a specific mix of many classic old tunes.

    What do you think?


  16. #40

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat
    One After 909. The Glyn Johns mix. Take a listen with headphones.

    It's strange and somewhat jarring to hear John and Paul's vocals separated left and right, and yet it adds a sort of casual realism--like two guys sitting there jamming--that I found charming after I got used to it.

    It reminds me how much my ears are married to a specific mix of many classic old tunes.

    What do you think?

    I listened to the Glyn Johns mix yesterday. I like it quite a bit. I wish they had stuck with that and perhaps cleaned it up a little, rather than calling in Spector. Though it would have been interesting to have Spector produce a Beatles record from the beginning.

  17. #41

    User Info Menu

    I always thought the talk about Yoko breaking up the Beatles was dumb. Like John couldn't think for himself.

  18. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    I always thought the talk about Yoko breaking up the Beatles was dumb. Like John couldn't think for himself.
    I agree: For me Harrison sums up why The Beatles broke-up:


  19. #43

    User Info Menu

    I watched part 1 but probably won't watch any more of it. It was ok but it really lacked the focus of the 1969 movie, Let It Be, which used much of the same footage.

  20. #44

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by doc w
    I watched part 1 but probably won't watch any more of it. It was ok but it really lacked the focus of the 1969 movie, Let It Be, which used much of the same footage.
    It gets a bit more enjoyable in part 2

  21. #45

    User Info Menu

    I thought the doc showed why the Beatles broke up.

    McCartney was brimming with energy and overflowing with ideas. He was clearly pre-hearing arrangements and wanted to record what he had in his mind. Without the skills to write or read charts, he had to communicate all this verbally, which was difficult for him and, apparently, not so pleasant for George.

    McCartney was ready to be the writer/arranger and leader of his own band, playing his own material. He went on to do that for 50 years.

    Two of the best songs on Abbey Road were Something and Here Comes the Sun. George had written a lot of tunes and could only get a couple recorded on each album. He had reason to believe this wasn't fair. He was treated as a sideman, but he felt more accomplished than that. Nobody ever mentions it, but I think that he deserved writing credit for a number of his guitar solos.

    Take "Help" for example. The solo is a short composition that's an integral part of the tune IMO. Why should the guy who wrote the bridge, say, get a composer credit and the guy who writes the guitar interlude does not?

    So, for Paul and George, the issue was outlet for burgeoning creativity.

    For John, it seems different. Early in the doc, he seems distant, checked out. He's got his two tunes, but you don't see him spending much time working on new ones or dictating arrangements. He's more engaged in the concert, where we see his talent. I'm inclined to believe the story about heroin use at that time. Post Beatles, John's mind was clearly in a different place, making basic rock songs, allowing Yoko's vocalizations, composing a few better songs and doing other things with his life.

    Aside: at some point, somebody should have told Yoko that she isn't a musician and she should stfu.

    Brings me to Ringo. Brilliant sideman. Doesn't get involved in the drama. Takes direction and plays his parts perfectly. He always plays the song, not some beat in his head. Post Beatles, he said that he was lost for a bit, not knowing what to do but then reminded himself that he's a musician and then went on to a productive musical career. A bunch of radio hits and the All Starr band, created with a good formula -- sidemen with their own hits -- enabled by Ringo's stature among his fellow musicians.

    So, the Beatles broke up because of the way the need to create hit each member. JMO.

  22. #46

    User Info Menu

    One thing that annoys me. YT is randomly suggesting clips from the doc. This is advertisment. I bet you can go to a secret office in YT and pay for your clips to be suggested sneakily.

  23. #47

    User Info Menu

    I was always kind of glad they broke up, though not at the time. The evolution of rock after them would have dragged them through some incredible depths… disco?! Hair and metal. Rap? I fear they would have become caricatures of themselves. I never thought the Stones could be compared in a creative context, they had a winning formula and stuck to it like glue. Trace the Beatles from start to finish and the creative growth is staggering. Especially viewed in the light of what comes after them.
    Been reading a guy on Quora, RJ Holland, a touring drummer. He highly respects Ringo and gives many examples from a pro drummers ear why Ringo was a great drummer. Worth a look!
    Episode 2 for me tomorrow.
    Wrong Lennon spouse was eliminated. So sad. John’s needs must have been miles deep.
    Last edited by jazzkritter; 12-12-2021 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Auto type doing its thing

  24. #48

    User Info Menu

    Well the 3rd episode is incredible. I got teary-eyed, as the story arc came to its conclusion with a rather triumphant, if brief, performance, and of course those brilliant songs. The interplay between the 4 was never better, and we could see the beginnings of Octopus’ Garden and Something, among other soon-to-be-classic songs.

    It’s interesting to compare the Beatles to the Stones. Lots of parallels—the Beatles were in a funk and created this self-imposed deadline to produce or else. They did, then eventually parted ways as the parts became more independent of the whole.

    The Stones decamped to Nice for a decadent year or so, which also produced some incredible albums. They lost their guitarist, sort of the way George left the Beatles, though only momentarily. They decided to soldier on and got an old fellow traveller, Ron Wood, to come in. They stayed together and made several really good albums for another 12 years or so before running out of steam.

    In a parallel universe George would have left, Eric Clapton and Billy Preston would have joined the 3 remaining Beatles, and they would have soldiered on and made some good recordings until Eric and maybe several other members’ drug use caught up with them.

    (George could have joined the Stones, but the excessive drug use of the Stones would have rubbed him the wrong way—not to mention he was not stylistically in tune with Keef and the boys—UNLESS maybe he converted Keef to Krishnaism, which might have changed the course of history as we know it.)
    Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 12-13-2021 at 03:33 PM.

  25. #49

    User Info Menu

    Speaking of parallel universes and the Beatles staying together:
    The Twelfth Album - Wikipedia

    Basically more mildly interesting exercise in Beatles-ology than a convincing story IIRC

  26. #50

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    I was always kind of glad they broke up, though not at the time. The evolution of rock after them would have dragged them through some incredible depths… disco?! Hair and metal. Rap? I fear they would have become caricatures of themselves. I never thought the Stones could be compared in a creative context, they had a winning formula and stuck to it like glue. Trace the Beatles from start to finish and the creative growth is staggering. Especially viewed in the light of what comes after them.
    Been reading a guy on Quora, RJ Holland, a touring drummer. He highly respects Ringo and gives many examples from a pro drummers ear why Ringo was a great drummer. Worth a look!
    Episode 2 for me tomorrow.
    Wrong Lennon spouse was eliminated. So sad. John’s needs must have been miles deep.
    Paul seemed to think Ringo is a draggy drummer. Listening to these stems gives me an idea why he would think that lol, and I don’t think it’s down to the drumming. That’s all I’ll say.

    The dynamic between them which sounds alchemical when they all kick into gear reflects their personal dynamics as seen in the film so completely. Perhaps it’s ultimately unfair to listen to the isolated tracks, but it is fascinating.


    Anyway, nothing lasts forever.