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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Sounds good and like I said I'll get it, and it will probably take me forever to get thru it.

    You apparently are not aware of the content in the Coker book which includes So What Chords, 4th voicings, Herbie Hancock tunes, Chick Corea, Benny Golson, MIles, Cedar Walton, Wayne Shorter. Playing solo gigs is beyond the Coker book, but you will be able to comp in a band setting, and that is pretty much all it covers.

    Have you looked at the Cooker book?
    Yes, I own that and his book on Improvisation. I must have 200 piano instruction books in my library. Coker is well known for his jazz instruction.

    Another stellar book is Frank Mantooth’s, Voicings. It’s all about creating professional jazz piano voicings. It’s a long time bestseller since the 80’s, an easy read and well written.

    The reason it’s so great is because it avoids the traditional Tertiary voicings, which is what you hear from pro recordings. It’s the book to take a beginning intermediate player to the next level.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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  4. #28
    That's you, 2B?
    That's me in 30 years.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzinNY
    That's you, 2B?
    That's me in 30 years.
    You’ll be there in much shorter time, trust me.

    Here’s a much easier tune to start with.

    Edit - Here, I've uploaded the documents as a pdf. Work each measure slowly, you've got this.

    my foolish heart.pdf

    OPEN VOICINGS - Basic Formulas.pdf

    TENSIONS.pdf

    Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 09-30-2021 at 03:14 PM.

  6. #30

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    I thought I'd show what I'm really up to with my keyboard learning which is to use it for songwriting. As such, my skills don't have to be very high to be able to jump in and get things done. I just about immediately used the keyboard, skills be damned.

    I put this together this morning on the tune I'm currently working on. It's just a draft, not even that yet actually, all subject to change. Tune at the end of the video.

  7. #31
    FEP: that is really cool!

    2bornot2bop: likewise, very Bill Evans. I will get to that -- still I have to go at my own pace.

    You say avoid roots. In solo though, don't roots make sense? I tried first 4 bars of Fine Romance with basic triads, and then 3-5-7. The latter were interesting, but I found the rooted ones more melodic.

    Lastly, I've heard that term "open voicings" but never really had a definition. Can you explain, or will it become clearer after Levine et al.?

  8. #32

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    You want to play roots solo, otherwise it just turns it into a substitution.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzinNY
    FEP: that is really cool!

    2bornot2bop: likewise, very Bill Evans. I will get to that -- still I have to go at my own pace.

    You say avoid roots. In solo though, don't roots make sense? I tried first 4 bars of Fine Romance with basic triads, and then 3-5-7. The latter were interesting, but I found the rooted ones more melodic.

    Lastly, I've heard that term "open voicings" but never really had a definition. Can you explain, or will it become clearer after Levine et al.?
    No. what I said was for left hand voicings avoid roots. Substitute with 9ths, and on dominant chords add the 13th. Try it. These are standard left hand voicings for jazz piano. But practice them in your right hand as well. Work both hands simultaneously. What your doing is programming your hands. So when you read that 13th chord you simply reach up and grab it without thinking about it. You need to know these chords to where they’re automatic.

    As an example try an Eb A and D on your piano in the middle register. That’s a standard F13 voicing in the left hand.

    You should have this down pat within a couple of months of diligent practice. Take these voicings around the cycle of 5ths so you practice them in all 12 keys. Jamey Aebersold has a book and CD set that provides a rhythm section, i.e. bass and drums to practice with. It’s titled ii-V-I.

    Later on experiment with 4ths for the left hand dominate chord voicings. These have the flavors of McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock.

    Yes, “open voicings” are akin to a root and 7th in the left hand and a 3rd an color tone in your right. These typically are 4 note voicings at minimum. They’re well explained in the Levine book. A closed voicing is a tight knit cluster of voicings, like a 3rd 7th 9th and 13th in the left hand. This is why it’s important to learn them now.

    Here’s the Aebersold book and CD.

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  10. #34

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    Levine also has over a dozen arrangements of tunes in TJPB. You’ll be able to practice them easily. They’re written with all notes identified so you’ll see how color tones effect the tune. Additionally he’s got a great voicing book for voicing standards.

    https://www.amazon.com/How-Voice-Sta.../dp/1883217806

  11. #35

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    Here's a PDF on Upper Structures. There's only 10 of them. Learn them to voice your chords between both hands. It goes without saying, your first step is to practice all triads in all 12 keys.

    A Bill Evans quote: Knowing the problem is 90% of solving it..


    [ATTACH]84991[/ATTACH

    Note the OPEN voicings





    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 10-01-2021 at 05:15 PM.

  12. #36

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    My experience. Learned the chords of the tune with the left hand and could just improvise with right - toying around those chord notes.
    This felt like cheating and guitar felt soooooooooooo much harder when had to imagine the chords instead. But that was a long time ago.

  13. #37
    2bornot2bop -- I'm trying to do "walk before you run," and you're signing me up for the half-marathon!

    I will keep your generous materials, but I have to learn step by step; that's my learning style.

    I do get the point about upper structure triads -- because your hands are independent, you can manipulate them separately, which is different from guitar. Pretty cool!

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzinNY
    2bornot2bop -- I'm trying to do "walk before you run," and you're signing me up for the half-marathon!

    I will keep your generous materials, but I have to learn step by step; that's my learning style.

    I do get the point about upper structure triads -- because your hands are independent, you can manipulate them separately, which is different from guitar. Pretty cool!
    At the beginning of this thread you asked for input. When we’re new at anything you don’t know what you don’t know.

    My suggestion is to skip the honky tonk reading exercise simply because they aren’t relevant to learning jazz. If you want to learn jazz dig in, for there’s work to be done. Reading skills can easily be acquired reading jazz. Keep your focus singular. Don’t waste your time elsewhere. At the end of the day it’s your time.

  15. #39
    Here's what I've done with one of my favorite tunes.



    I also have both books mentioned above, Coker and Levine. They both look terrific, it's just that Levine is much more encyclopedic.

    It has samples from many pianists, and other jazzers such as Coltrane (p. 246). A typical 3 or 4 pages may represent several weeks of work/play.

    Comments are welcome, but overall I'm happy with my program. Just have to control the nerves better.

    And Moderator: if you prefer to move this thread to Other Styles / Instruments, please go ahead.

  16. #40

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    Gret thread, thanks to all contributors, specially since I've been considering to learn playing the piano for so many years !

  17. #41

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    You’re voicing your chords at the bottom of your keyboard. Try the center, which has better sonority for left hand voicings.

    Then try voicing your chords between two hands. If you have the Levine book this is in the beginning of the book. You’re making this more difficult than need be.

  18. #42
    Isn't that a matter of taste though? This is the way I hear it, for the most part.

    I'm doing a Bach piece which is melody and 1 or 2 support notes (Jesu). Mostly I have the hands close together, as the guitar book has it. But sometimes I drop the support down an octave and it sounds cool.

    I will try various things out, of course. The cool thing about the piano is its range.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzinNY
    Isn't that a matter of taste though? This is the way I hear it, for the most part.

    I'm doing a Bach piece which is melody and 1 or 2 support notes (Jesu). Mostly I have the hands close together, as the guitar book has it. But sometimes I drop the support down an octave and it sounds cool.

    I will try various things out, of course. The cool thing about the piano is its range.
    If you're simply wanting to work tunes, then by all means, everything is a matter of taste. If you want to learn jazz then study jazz tunes. Rather than playing a 3rd, I'd play a 10th. Root 7th is fine.

    And practice with a metronome unless you're simply attempting to play rubato the entire tune. Take a measure at a time, playing it in time, without moving on to the next measure until you can play it also in time.

  20. #44
    You should see how rubato my Bach is right now.