Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Now that I've gotten your attention---LOL.

    I think it was Christian who pinned me as a 'retro' player, meaning it as a compliment. But my feathers got a bit ruffled (boo f'ing HOO!) b/c I really do or did like to view myself as an open-minded musician and person. I've said, and want to believe, that orthodoxy is an art-killer.

    But we must be honest with ourselves, or fool ourselves. This is now officially not about me, but I do hope self-reflection/true confession may stimulate general discussion re these things. We must stand for something---but it's best if it comes out in the work and living, and not in ad hominem attacks, especially public ones, of our peers; betters; 'worsers'---or what we dislike or don't understand.

    And this is quite a delicate balance----or balancing act.

    It was the very edifying Beato Pat Metheny interview and my reaction to it that got me thinking (can yiz smell the wood burning?). I think Pat's a great musician and force, but have been troubled by aspects of what he champions and sometimes plays. I DO love his melodicism; creation of a game-changing style; courage to be himself and of a culture he was raised in, not a fake black player---though he certainly loves black jazz; R & B; etc.

    So what's the beef? I guess 'beef' is the wrong word. It's more like how strong are our beliefs when others challenge them? Are we afraid of our deficiencies, or perceived ones, being self-questioned, or---way, way worse---hung out in the public square (or virtual square) for all to see and perhaps snicker at?

    I'm not a technically gifted person. I have more soul than chops, or just enough chops so people don't have to guess what I meant playing---and I like that just fine. I'm confounded; frustrated by; have no patience for---and have fantasies about smashing---machines other than a car or microwave. I truly believe we've moved backwards in many ways, though I'm equally happy for the good.

    My main source of sadness and, yes, nostalgia (there, I've SAID it!) is the cookie-cutterness aspect: no handwriting anymore in music charts; email; texts---the whole 9. Handwriting, besides being individual and often graceful and beautiful, tells volumes about a person. You have to know how to read it right is all.

    So pedals? I haven't used them myself since my rock days, back in the Bronze Age. For me they can distract from the subtleties of pure sound. If I wanted to play or compose using synths (and I sure DO) it would require study like for anything else, but if I couldn't get them to bring ME out I wonder what the point would be?

    Swing? Yeah, I believe in it and that jazz should. I'm an aspiring swinger---shoot me. I like melody on top, not harmony---where jazz has gone in the last nigh on 60 years. Yet I'm fascinated by the newer things and would like to put what would work for me in a funnel.

    I grew up being exposed to Broadway music very young; rebelled with rock, went to the Fillmore and Woodstock (I was THERE the New Year's Eve gig Hendrix and the Band of Gypsys recorded!); had life-changing experiences hearing Charlie Parker; Charlie Christian and Stevie Wonder at 17. (I'd heard and seen on TV Wes Montgomery at 14, knew SOMETHING was up, but just wasn't quite ready). And nothing's really changed, my direction was set---though I've absorbed many more influences since, and believe that I have my own voice---I say unapologetically---largely though exposure to these greats.

    So we want to be open, and not 'set'---doctrinaire. There's SO much of this in jazz it's sick-making. But we also must be honest and stand for things---and against others. It's all in the way you make it come off, living and working in a way that shows strong beliefs and being honest about them when asked. You become a target yourself screaming into megaphones about how full of s##t the other guy is.

    I has spoken.

    Stories? Thoughts? Marriage proposals? (Wait, forget that last one...)...

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    I hear you.

    I'm a very "retro" player. Maybe even a little "old fashioned." Which is funny, because it doesn't really reflect what I spend my time listening to.

    It's just who I am. I've learned to go with it. Gotta be me.

  4. #3
    [QUOTE=mr. beaumont;1144409]...Gotta be me 'Whether I'm right----or whether I'm wrong...'. LOL!...

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    I think I was the one who used that term in reference to you, Joel - and it was a compliment. I was referring to your tone and your approach, both of which serve as reminders to those who have forgotten or never knew that it's not just about speed and how far up the extension ladder you can climb. Taste, judgment, and knowledge of what's come before are the necessary foundation on which even the most avant garde players developed their styles and chops.

    Parker, Coltrane, Sanders, Monk, Kirk et al could play as straight as an arrow with chops to spare, if they so desired. Dali was an astounding technician, and Picasso was an expert classical artist by the end of his teenage years. Even in their later years, they all had some retro in their rockets too.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Not sure if I'm retro or not.

    My favorite thing musically is to create something, that is, write it, and record it. I'm certainly not accomplished, I like to throw something against the wall and see if it sticks, and if it sticks that is joy for me. But I do come from a harmony and melody point of view, if that's retro, okay that's me.

    My favorite musical discoveries this millennium are Larkin Poe, The Bros. Landreth (and Joey Landreth), and Jacob Collier. I suppose that is kind of retro.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Larkin Poe is excellent.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I think I was the one who used that term in reference to you, Joel - and it was a compliment. I was referring to your tone and your approach, both of which serve as reminders to those who have forgotten or never knew that it's not just about speed and how far up the extension ladder you can climb. Taste, judgment, and knowledge of what's come before are the necessary foundation on which even the most avant garde players developed their styles and chops.

    Parker, Coltrane, Sanders, Monk, Kirk et al could play as straight as an arrow with chops to spare, if they so desired. Dali was an astounding technician, and Picasso was an expert classical artist by the end of his teenage years. Even in their later years, they all had some retro in their rockets too.
    I think the basic CORE of one's personality, artistic or otherwise, is likely formed by the late teens. It was in my case, anyway.

    I also think one's music will speak for itself louder than words can---no matter how much the truth is twisted by oneself internally or externally or by others. And you're stuck with you anyway---may as well like and believe in what you got, and grow from there. There's no growth w/o a foundation.

    It takes years sometimes and a lot of struggle. Here's a story from about 10 or so years ago: I played an opening solo set at Smalls. The group that followed featured a hot younger guitarist people talk about a lot here and elsewhere. I do not know him myself. At the end of my set I played an Ellington medley, and he was standing there, waiting for me to finish. It was probably partly the dark mood I was in then---driving car service 12-13 hours, 6 days a week and with no real direction or even hope. Tbh I didn't really even feel like playing in the 1st place, but I was obligated and am not about screwing people. However you slice it I felt a definite vibe---a DRAFT---from this young cat, like 'hurry up, old man, and get it over with---etc.' And I DID feel like an old man who's time had come and gone. All he actually said to me was 'Thank you', with a weird smile I couldn't pin.

    If the same thing happened now I'd not be as affected or bugged. I've made peace with a lot of things, including the biz. I mean I can play, he can play---and I wish us BOTH all the best. It's so easy to get sidetracked by BS that means nothing.

    If this guy's values and heroes are radically different than mine why WOULD'NT they be? In a perfect world we'd be learning from each other. But the music biz---the JAZZ music biz specifically---is anything but a perfect world. There's a lot of defensiveness and acting as if. It kind of wears me down, but then I remember how lucky I am to have wonderful friends; OK health; and my talent. And talent would mean zilch if it didn't lead to interaction and mutual support with and by like-minded people. There's such JOY in that.

    We're on Earth for a flash. Let's use the time well and unselfishly...

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Tradish is my favorite and I'm happy like that.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Sorry about that

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    I can write way faster with my copyists pen that i can enter the notes into Sibelius and produce a score that is human and attractive to look at (IMO). In a way that tech is as good as it gets. But obv computers make it easy to manipulate music (maybe making composition less like improv) and get it ready for performance…

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    I think the basic CORE of one's personality, artistic or otherwise, is likely formed by the late teens. It was in my case, anyway.

    I also think one's music will speak for itself louder than words can---no matter how much the truth is twisted by oneself internally or externally or by others. And you're stuck with you anyway---may as well like and believe in what you got, and grow from there. There's no growth w/o a foundation.

    It takes years sometimes and a lot of struggle. Here's a story from about 10 or so years ago: I played an opening solo set at Smalls. The group that followed featured a hot younger guitarist people talk about a lot here and elsewhere. I do not know him myself. At the end of my set I played an Ellington medley, and he was standing there, waiting for me to finish. It was probably partly the dark mood I was in then---driving car service 12-13 hours, 6 days a week and with no real direction or even hope. Tbh I didn't really even feel like playing in the 1st place, but I was obligated and am not about screwing people. However you slice it I felt a definite vibe---a DRAFT---from this young cat, like 'hurry up, old man, and get it over with---etc.' And I DID feel like an old man who's time had come and gone. All he actually said to me was 'Thank you', with a weird smile I couldn't pin.

    If the same thing happened now I'd not be as affected or bugged. I've made peace with a lot of things, including the biz. I mean I can play, he can play---and I wish us BOTH all the best. It's so easy to get sidetracked by BS that means nothing.

    If this guy's values and heroes are radically different than mine why WOULD'NT they be? In a perfect world we'd be learning from each other. But the music biz---the JAZZ music biz specifically---is anything but a perfect world. There's a lot of defensiveness and acting as if. It kind of wears me down, but then I remember how lucky I am to have wonderful friends; OK health; and my talent. And talent would mean zilch if it didn't lead to interaction and mutual support with and by like-minded people. There's such JOY in that.

    We're on Earth for a flash. Let's use the time well and unselfishly...
    That guitarist has two types of gigs
    1) for guitarists who want his job
    2) for tourists who ‘go to a NYC jazz club’ and find themselves baffled and alienated by elaborate prog rock.

    And that’s the pinnacle of the contemporary jazz scene. If you are lucky and Uber talented. In the summer you can go to Europe and eat nice chocolate desserts.

    No wonder a lot of these hotshots are a bit vibey, they know this better than anyone. It’s a bit like being the world’s best Magic: the Gathering player or something.

    I do admire the sheer guitarism and skill, but I admire more those who are able to communicate with a wider audience.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    OG

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Larkin Poe is excellent.
    They recently performed a lot of covers---one a week for awhile, I think---and I caught several on Facebook. One that really struck me was their version of Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here." Not what I expected from them.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Henry Robinett likes to say something Mingus told him: "Play your own shit, even if it stinks."
    I go with what gets me out of bed in the morning wanting to play (or write).
    I don't have to call it anything and I don't care what anyone else calls it.

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Musical competition is self-defeating.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Musical competition is self-defeating.
    Yes, it is ego-driven . . . and has nothing to do with Art.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    I guess I am as well when it comes to my Musical Heroes for the most part.
    I'm not against change when it builds on great musical heritage.
    But I definitely am not into the Gaming or Newer Youtubers idea of Hip,

    It seems as though what genius like Charlie Parker, Jimi Hendrix, Jaco Pastorius were in the past for music, have now moved into the Tech industry .
    And while it's a natural progression, it's more visual than audio and thought provoking for me.
    Much like the actual book was usually better than the Movie scenario.!

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Musical competition is self-defeating.

    But it was essential to bebop, was it not?

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Competition is inherent and good when it spurs everyone to new heights! Just when it's win at all costs you t me out. And I'm afraid our current societal norms are more the latter!

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    Nothing wrong with a bit of friendly competition in music. Anyone who thinks this isn’t part of jazz tradition hasn’t read too much of its history. (Although I wouldn’t condone threatening rival players at knife point.)

  22. #21

    User Info Menu



    I learned the hard way. The world was kissing my ass and then it was down..down..down...

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Oh blimey, I have been trying so hard for many years to keep telling myself I have to be open minded with music and embrace change, blah, blah, blah. But I think I have finally accepted defeat, bring back melodies please. Sorry music world, but yes it does seem I am stuck in the past.

  24. #23

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Competition is inherent and good when it spurs everyone to new heights! Just when it's win at all costs you t me out. And I'm afraid our current societal norms are more the latter!
    I actually consider that inspiration rather than competition. Small difference, but with inspiration, everybody wins.

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite
    Oh blimey, I have been trying so hard for many years to keep telling myself I have to be open minded with music and embrace change, blah, blah, blah. But I think I have finally accepted defeat, bring back melodies please. Sorry music world, but yes it does seem I am stuck in the past.
    Check out Larkin Poe and Olivia Rodrigo.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 09-07-2021 at 04:38 AM.

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Nothing wrong with a bit of friendly competition in music. Anyone who thinks this isn’t part of jazz tradition hasn’t read too much of its history. (Although I wouldn’t condone threatening rival players at knife point.)
    Bop came full circle with the arrival of steps bands in the 80's. I was in a unique position to get more practice than anyone and made use of it.
    1984-86' was some crazy shit. The movie Purple Rain came out in 84'. It was just an art house movie but touched a nerve. There was no Prince in California. There was a music circuit. California, Osaka, Tokyo, Singapore.
    All gone in 1986 because of a war in the Japanese mafia. I think a lot of guys resented Prince. The asshole who wanted to be a movie star. Fake bands with hired guns.
    I miss that little asshole. I related to Wendy. At a gig in Yokohama she said enough of this. The Revolution is over.

    Asshole or not, Prince was right about fighting tyranny at the top. He was telling record execs- get the f@ck out of my studio when he was 19 years old.

    I think the level of competition in those days was similar to bop. Then rappers came along and said we're going to shoot each other.
    Enjoy the show.

    I have a protege. Check her out;



    Smooth, moves. The hostess with the mostest. Her ex is an asshole.
    We're performance artists. Your job chooses you sometimes.

    After heart surgery in Dec. 2018 I went rehab. The guy in the room across from me was a famous wrestler in Japan in the early 90's. I checked later. He was. He was about early 50's. He couldn't leave his room because of a staff infection. He was in performance mode. Bragging about how famous he was. I said I was kind of thing in Japan but didn't get into it.
    He got into having a rough childhood. Bad father and low-life relatives. I wish I had listened more closely.
    Then he laid into Lex Luger. He didn't like Lex Luger.
    I said, Lex Luger's father tunes my parents pianos. He looked at me like, is this guy pulling my leg?
    I said his name is Roger Foles and he used to tune my parent's pianos.

    I thought dude, you can't leave your room and I just had my chest ripped open. I was backed by gambling money, you were backed by anything goes. Both backed by the mafia.
    Look at us now. All washed up. There should be a nursing home for performance artists.
    I was more famous than you..
    No you weren't..