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  1. #26

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    Interesting video, V,
    For a purist, like myself, this would never be a performance/recording option. I believe in live music--warts and all. However, the most important point Rick states is that you can take a poor vocalist and make them sound good after the "Auto tune" mix. And, they can even use it on a gig. So, what does this say about the potential talent pool now and in the future? How will it change popular music? The proof is in the pudding.
    Play live . . . Marinero

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    LOL ... Why would we do that?
    Sorry my mistake lol. Much more fun to respond to the click bait title! What was I thinking????

    On Facebook I’m a member of a group that’s like a mirror image of this one. Lots of zoomers and millennials pretending to be zoomers taking the piss out of Boomers, and Beato is like the Boomer king, they all hate him for much the same reasons as djg.

    none of them watch the vids either lol.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Has anyone watched the video?
    I did. Frank (fep) obviously did. (Cliffs Notes).
    Beato seems to have more tolerance for AutoTune than several people replying in this thread. He thinks it has its place (-both to help in the studio to fix a few notes in a vocal when time does not permit further takes or the singer's voice is shot, and as a deliberately exaggerated effect, such as Cher's use of it in "Believe.")
    He gives a good example of how it can go wrong (in his opinion): the harmony backing vocals in Lenny Kravitz's "Fly Away" are Auto-Tuned and because they are so exactly right, the result sounds thinner than imperfect (but good) backing vocals would sound.

    Elton John is noted for his dislike of Auto Tune. (And lip-syncing "live.")

  5. #29
    best fucking live act fuck Off...hahahahah

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Sorry my mistake lol. Much more fun to respond to the click bait title! What was I thinking????

    On Facebook I’m a member of a group that’s like a mirror image of this one. Lots of zoomers and millennials pretending to be zoomers taking the piss out of Boomers, and Beato is like the Boomer king, they all hate him for much the same reasons as djg.

    none of them watch the vids either lol.
    Beato is more GenX than boomer. At 59 years of age he's kind of in-between. At 63 I'm a boomer with GenX tendencies. Rick was smart. He changed direction when band gigs started to dry up.
    I like his overall passion for music.
    He might not be 100% 'right' all the time but who is?

  7. #31

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    There are legitimate uses for such a tool, and likewise abuses. It would be good if everyone was scrupulous about respecting the intellectual property rights of their fellow artists; but don't hold your breath. Many a Faustian bargain is struck on the stairway to the stars. Jimi Hendrix died with less than $40 in his bank account, after having generated millions in economic activity. People don't always have their hands out; they are too frequently already in your pocket. Always have your lawyer and your accountant read and explain the fine print. Handshake deals were fine when there was still honor in the world. As for now, get it in writing. In triplicate.

  8. #32

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    Christian Miller, why would I waste time on on a Rick Beato video? In the words of Marty McFly:



    As an educator, I would stay clean of an asshole like him. Too bad he's the face of music theory for so many on Youtube.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    Christian Miller, why would I waste time on on a Rick Beato video? In the words of Marty McFly:



    As an educator, I would stay clean of an asshole like him. Too bad he's the face of music theory for so many on Youtube.
    Why is he an asshole? I check out his videos because of his broad knowledge of music and the music business, not for theory. We're fairly close in age.
    I like his non-intellectual approach.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I did. Frank (fep) obviously did. (Cliffs Notes).
    Beato seems to have more tolerance for AutoTune than several people replying in this thread. He thinks it has its place (-both to help in the studio to fix a few notes in a vocal when time does not permit further takes or the singer's voice is shot, and as a deliberately exaggerated effect, such as Cher's use of it in "Believe.")
    He gives a good example of how it can go wrong (in his opinion): the harmony backing vocals in Lenny Kravitz's "Fly Away" are Auto-Tuned and because they are so exactly right, the result sounds thinner than imperfect (but good) backing vocals would sound.

    Elton John is noted for his dislike of Auto Tune. (And lip-syncing "live.")
    Elton, tell us how you really feel about it.
    That was pretty funny.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Beato is more GenX than boomer. At 59 years of age he's kind of in-between. At 63 I'm a boomer with GenX tendencies. Rick was smart. He changed direction when band gigs started to dry up.
    I like his overall passion for music.
    He might not be 100% 'right' all the time but who is?
    I'm 62, so he is only a few years younger than I am, but when I'm watching him I tend to think there's a bigger gap between us. I think it's because he got into producing in the late '90s and that era is a major frame of reference for him. When he talks about metal, for example (which he likes a lot), he's thinking about a more recent period than I tend to. Many bands I've heard him reference are unnkown to me. (Not a criticism of him, just a difference between us.)

    He loves music, he's done his homework, he can play (and record/engineer/produce), and he speaks his mind. Comes off as loud and pushy, which doesn't appeal to me, but it doesn't keep me from listening if I think I can learn something. (This video--about AutoTune--doesn't interest me much and I wouldn't have watched it but for this thread.)

  12. #36

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    If he wants to badmouth music teachers country wide, I can bad mouth his pompous ass.

    It's almost as if it was always en vogue to crap on teachers, no matter what the malady. I wish we had that reach. Quite frankly, if that's the case--I want to be paid a politicians salary to do my teaching gig.

    I thought he'd be smarter than that, is all. I thought he'd wise up, since he has two amazing kids of his own (no sarcasm, his kids have talent).

    There's a bunch of Youtubers in his circle that aren't as egotistical as him.

    Anyway, I've already wasted enough time talking about him. There's a video where he talks about music ed that ruined him, in my eyes. Look it up, Stevebol. I'm not. Gave him enough publicity with my own venting

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS
    I was around in the days of classic disco. The drums were loud, sure - so was the whole mix in most clubs - but the other instruments still were not so overpowered as they have been for years now that drum sounds take up so much sonic space in a typical mix.
    VERY true, and you know where it's the worst - in rap & hip-hop! As a quality engineer at the place I work, I oftentimes have to go out on the shop floor to check up on something, and if I had a nickel, for every "song" somebody was playing loud (to "show other people, what's good music") that had a monotonic rhyme vocal, with overpowering trap beats accompanying it, I'd be a millionaire.

    As for autotune, I've sung my fair share of lead vocals in bands. I was not first chair quality, but I did a decent job. Why? Because having been in glee club in school, I learned the need to try to stay in pitch. It seems too many singers nowadays, are more concerned with "being the star of the band", than they are with singing decently ("too hard to do"), and as a result, autotune has become a crutch (especially since you can also use it live). Unfortunately, like too much compression on guitar, it has a tendency to make everybody sound the same.

    Unfortunately, people like Neil Degrasse-Tyson having a video about how "autotune is so great" doesn't help things.


  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I'm 62, so he is only a few years younger than I am, but when I'm watching him I tend to think there's a bigger gap between us. I think it's because he got into producing in the late '90s and that era is a major frame of reference for him. When he talks about metal, for example (which he likes a lot), he's thinking about a more recent period than I tend to. Many bands I've heard him reference are unnkown to me. (Not a criticism of him, just a difference between us.)

    He loves music, he's done his homework, he can play (and record/engineer/produce), and he speaks his mind. Comes off as loud and pushy, which doesn't appeal to me, but it doesn't keep me from listening if I think I can learn something. (This video--about AutoTune--doesn't interest me much and I wouldn't have watched it but for this thread.)
    The music business can turn anyone into a basket case.
    I actually like California. I ran into trouble in Japan getting tight with the mafia.

    Everyone should live in Las Vegas for 4 months. It gets old after 3. I can't wait to get out of here when my lease runs out next April. I'm off to California. I'll be on Medicare in a year and a 1/2 and that will save me $730 a month.
    No more music business for me.

  15. #39

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    I really enjoy this forum. It makes me feel young.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Beato is more GenX than boomer. At 59 years of age he's kind of in-between. At 63 I'm a boomer with GenX tendencies. Rick was smart. He changed direction when band gigs started to dry up.
    I like his overall passion for music.
    He might not be 100% 'right' all the time but who is?
    This matters not to the young’uns one squat. I am a boomer to them. Boomers are basically anyone over 30.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-20-2021 at 03:24 AM.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
    If he wants to badmouth music teachers country wide, I can bad mouth his pompous ass.

    It's almost as if it was always en vogue to crap on teachers, no matter what the malady. I wish we had that reach. Quite frankly, if that's the case--I want to be paid a politicians salary to do my teaching gig.

    I thought he'd be smarter than that, is all. I thought he'd wise up, since he has two amazing kids of his own (no sarcasm, his kids have talent).

    There's a bunch of Youtubers in his circle that aren't as egotistical as him.

    Anyway, I've already wasted enough time talking about him. There's a video where he talks about music ed that ruined him, in my eyes. Look it up, Stevebol. I'm not. Gave him enough publicity with my own venting
    I have no strong opinions on the matter, but it does strike me that his titles are clickbaity and the videos usually more nuanced.

    Music theory does well on YouTube because it appeals to a certain type of person who can’t actually do music very well, but wants to believe they have some inside knowledge. (trust me, I should know haha.)

    So when a daddy figure comes along and tells them Nirvana is great because they use upper extensions on the chords and that this constitutes ‘incredibly great melody writing’ they lap it up. There’s always a market for people having their opinions confirmed with some convincing sounding justification. People have been selling music theory classes that way since the 19th century.

    Anyway Beato himself is a little bit more interesting than that stereotype. I think he’s found a brand and is flogging it.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-20-2021 at 03:23 AM.

  18. #42

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    Autotune solves the problem of the performer who looks good but cannot sing. In our video-saturated age, appearance makes the performer bankable, but the media corporation that owns him still needs a product to sell: a song. Autotune conceals the deficencies. The producers do the rest of the work.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    This matters not to the young’uns one squat. I am a boomer to them. Boomers are basically anyone over 30.
    Under 30, not boomer. Over 30, boomer.
    Got it.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Under 30, not boomer. Over 30, boomer.
    Got it.
    or if you post Minion memes

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Under 30, not boomer. Over 30, boomer.
    Got it.
    Over 60 double boomer?

  22. #46

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    "Many a Faustian bargain is struck on the stairway to the stars." citizenk74

    Five Star quote of the day!

    Play live . . . Marinero

  23. #47

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    Can not imagine George Benson's vocal with autotune. (or Al Jarreau, or Bobby McFerrin). Yes I know they obviously do not need it, but this does not mean they on pitch, every notes all duration. The diverge from the pitch (wait, what pitch, the well tempered?) many times intentionally in they phrasing, which is part of their artistic expression, with bend, and other nuances.

    If a performance needs to be pitch corrected, then how can we assume the singer has such a control on nuances, what shoud be the essence of the music, and her/his style and message. Those nuances could be there, even the main pitches are not fully correct, but who cares? Gary Peacock is terribly out of pitch from the beginning (at least compared to for example Charlie Haden), but who cares? Terribly bad idea to pitch correct him. Also Coltrane has many recordings with painfully out of pitch notes.

    so if a performance is pitch corrected that at least raises doubts what are we listening, music or a product?

  24. #48
    last word is from Elton John 0.52

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    Over 60 double boomer?
    "Boom-Booms" is also fine.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I have no strong opinions on the matter, but it does strike me that his titles are clickbaity and the videos usually more nuanced.

    Music theory does well on YouTube because it appeals to a certain type of person who can’t actually do music very well, but wants to believe they have some inside knowledge. (trust me, I should know haha.)

    So when a daddy figure comes along and tells them Nirvana is great because they use upper extensions on the chords and that this constitutes ‘incredibly great melody writing’ they lap it up. There’s always a market for people having their opinions confirmed with some convincing sounding justification. People have been selling music theory classes that way since the 19th century.

    Anyway Beato himself is a little bit more interesting than that stereotype. I think he’s found a brand and is flogging it.
    There's a good deal of money to be made telling people what they want to hear. It's a major pillar of the Biz as a whole - you make sounds that appeal and package them nicely with comely front people and present it as a four-minute Major Motion Picture and take it all to the bank. laughing all the way.