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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by zdub
    Maybe he'd have been better if he kept all six strings on his guitars. <g>
    That's mainly an open G thing. In that tuning----which Keith uses a lot---the low E is tuned to D and he doesn't choose to play that string and doesn't want to sound it by accident when strumming, so he just leaves that string off. (I've read he also removes the magnet for that string from his pickups.)


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  3. #77

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    I think you sell him short. He wasn’t a songwriter on par with Stevie or Paul in my book, or a lyricist like Bob, but he almost singlehandedly reenergized funk and soul music after it had virtually died during the disco era. He fused RNB and dance music and hard rock in a way few people had and had a lasting impact.

    Hendrix didn’t play dance music or funk, really. He wasn’t groove oriented—he came from the blues.

    And Sly was groove-oriented but wasn’t a great songwriter or hard rocker and of course flamed out before he could move in a more creative direction.

    As far as sex...well Prince didn’t invent that. I personally think he saw it as almost a shamanistic and religious kind of thing, like Muddy’s Mojo and Van’s Jelly Roll, not just a cheap hook ala Rick James or a lot of the more prurient RNB bands of the late 70’s. I won’t say it’s my favorite part of Prince’s approach, but hey I listen to Zappa sing about Bobby Brown and Ms. Pinky and I don’t take it too seriously.

    (There’s an intellectual argument about Zappa’s approach to sex and scatology not worth going into now, but I put it on a par with Salvador Dali. It’s there to make a statement and poke the listener with a sharp stick, not make them feel good and horny.)

    And lacked humility...if that’s a criterion for musical greatness, we’ll have to let Buddy Rich and Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis and Frank Zappa and James Brown and Diana Ross and Joni Mitchell and so many others know.

    Anyway, I get if he’s not your cup of tea. He wasn’t really mine in the early 80’s TBH—I’ve never seen him live—but at this point I think I can put him in perspective and see him as a huge figure in music of his time.

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think you sell him short. He wasn’t a songwriter on par with Stevie or Paul in my book, or a lyricist like Bob, but he almost singlehandedly reenergized funk and soul music after it had virtually died during the disco era. He fused RNB and dance music and hard rock in a way few people had and had a lasting impact.

    Hendrix didn’t play dance music or funk, really. He wasn’t groove oriented—he came from the blues.

    And Sly was groove-oriented but wasn’t a great songwriter or hard rocker and of course flamed out before he could move in a more creative direction.

    As far as sex...well Prince didn’t invent that. I personally think he saw it as almost a shamanistic and religious kind of thing, like Muddy’s Mojo and Van’s Jelly Roll, not just a cheap hook ala Rick James or a lot of the more prurient RNB bands of the late 70’s. I won’t say it’s my favorite part of Prince’s approach, but hey I listen to Zappa sing about Bobby Brown and Ms. Pinky and I don’t take it too seriously.

    (There’s an intellectual argument about Zappa’s approach to sex and scatology not worth going into now, but I put it on a par with Salvador Dali. It’s there to make a statement and poke the listener with a sharp stick, not make them feel good and horny.)

    And lacked humility...if that’s a criterion for musical greatness, we’ll have to let Buddy Rich and Frank Sinatra and Miles Davis and Frank Zappa and James Brown and Diana Ross and Joni Mitchell and so many others know.

    Anyway, I get if he’s not your cup of tea. He wasn’t really mine in the early 80’s TBH—I’ve never seen him live—but at this point I think I can put him in perspective and see him as a huge figure in music of his time.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar

    In terms of pop players being competent, versatile musicians, there are/have been more than a few. Paul McCartney, Elton John, Billy Joel, Stephen Stills, Leon Russell, even David Grohl., etc.

    Somehow they all became successful and popular, and they didn't even need to wear a thong on their album covers.
    Being a versatile player is not an essential prerequisite to become a pop star. Or rather, you need to be able to play the media player more than you need to play an instrument (voice included). Some can do both.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    And that video proves what? That dance music could be monotonous in the 60s, too? I grant that Jimi moves better than the guy next to him but that's not what made him famous.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    And that video proves what? That dance music could be monotonous in the 60s, too? I grant that Jimi moves better than the guy next to him but that's not what made him famous.
    It's called 'steps'.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think you sell him short. He wasn’t a songwriter on par with Stevie or Paul in my book, or a lyricist like Bob, but he almost singlehandedly reenergized funk and soul music after it had virtually died during the disco era. He fused RNB and dance music and hard rock in a way few people had and had a lasting impact.
    I think you sell him short aswell.
    I am a big fan of Stevie Wonder and the Beatles. I don't care too much about Dylan. Saying Prince wasn't a songwriter like Wonder or McCartney doesn't make sense to me. Why are songs like yesterday, eleonor rigby, superstition or happier than the morning sun better than Ballad of Dorothy, Sign o the times or play in the sunshine?

  9. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    Being a versatile player is not an essential prerequisite to become a pop star. Or rather, you need to be able to play the media player more than you need to play an instrument (voice included). Some can do both.
    Not any more. Correct. But people were going on about Prince's multi-instrumental prowess, etc.

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Hi, S,
    On a scale of 5 stars . . . can I give it six??? The death of live music in clubs is directly related to the end of "dancing" to bands. Whether they be the big bands of the 20's-early 50's, Rock and Roll, Soul/Funk/R@B/Country Western. Music is a spiritual release for people and dancing connects them to their primal roots. I can name some of the aforementioned "guitarists" that I personally detest and it would serve no purpose. However, most of the "Rockers" play dance music and that's why it's still so popular and people pay hundreds/thousands to hear them play in mega-stadiums. This is also the case with C@W. Anyone who can't get into "Shotgun"--a Junior Walker standard ought to take up needlepoint for a pastime.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    Here's Junior . . . one of my first sax idols at 13.



    God, I love those 50's/60's girls! Take me home . . .

  11. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    And that video proves what? That dance music could be monotonous in the 60s, too? I grant that Jimi moves better than the guy next to him but that's not what made him famous.
    What really made him famous was having sex with his guitar.

    I think Prince borrowed that from him.

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    I think you sell him short aswell.
    I am a big fan of Stevie Wonder and the Beatles. I don't care too much about Dylan. Saying Prince wasn't a songwriter like Wonder or McCartney doesn't make sense to me. Why are songs like yesterday, eleonor rigby, superstition or happier than the morning sun better than Ballad of Dorothy, Sign o the times or play in the sunshine?
    Well they just are. Those songs appealed to a wide variety of people instantaneously.

    But Prince? He was much more niche. His entire persona and messaging were "alt" lifestyle. "Pop" may have been the general musical category, but the appeal was very narrow.

    Per the above and against my better judgement, I read the lyrics to the recommended song "If I was your girlfriend". Oh brother. Besides being creepy, disgusting, effeminate, and sleazy, who is that supposed to appeal to?

    Niche, to say the least.

  13. #87

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    Nice of you to respond but I was responding to some one else.
    oh and if appealing is an argument, most jazz sucks.
    Second oh: if that lyrics bothered you I can give you a list of songs you really should avoid.
    sister being one of em.
    Last edited by Marcel_A; 06-09-2021 at 09:10 AM.

  14. #88

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    Prince covering Hendrix:



    And the Stones (opened for the Stones late 70’s):


  15. #89

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  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Nice of you to respond but I was responding to some one else.
    oh and if appealing is an argument, most jazz sucks.
    Second oh: if that lyrics bothered you I can give you a list of songs you really should avoid.
    sister being one of em.
    Most jazz sucks on the appealing meter? Nah, I think it's more like,,,, most jazz is met with indifference and disinterest.

    The Prince lyrics don't bother me, and he didn't bother me. He wasn't on my radar screen at all because whatever he was selling, whatever he was communicating, whatever his "ethic" was, whatever his so-called message was, he wasn't speaking to me. Like most, I'm too normal. He was very abnormal. His self-destruction and the self-destruction of others in his orbit, would be Exhibit A.

    The masses aren't compelled to embrace dysfunction.
    Last edited by Donplaysguitar; 06-09-2021 at 01:33 PM.

  17. #91

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    Your point being?

  18. #92

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    EZ Rider and Stone Free as well as some of the Band of Gypsies tracks were quite funky. Remember it's called Rhythm and Blues for a reason.

    My main point isn't to say Prince wasn't talented at many things. But that it lacked humility or a natural feel compared to Jimi Hendrix, Cornell Dupree and others.
    But he sold it visually and he sold a lot of it for many decades to the majority of the public as well as many famous musical stars.

  19. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, S,
    On a scale of 5 stars . . . can I give it six??? The death of live music in clubs is directly related to the end of "dancing" to bands. Whether they be the big bands of the 20's-early 50's, Rock and Roll, Soul/Funk/R@B/Country Western. Music is a spiritual release for people and dancing connects them to their primal roots. I can name some of the aforementioned "guitarists" that I personally detest and it would serve no purpose. However, most of the "Rockers" play dance music and that's why it's still so popular and people pay hundreds/thousands to hear them play in mega-stadiums. This is also the case with C@W. Anyone who can't get into "Shotgun"--a Junior Walker standard ought to take up needlepoint for a pastime.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    Here's Junior . . . one of my first sax idols at 13.



    God, I love those 50's/60's girls! Take me home . . .
    I didn't notice a sharp drop-off in gigs 77'. I wasn't really gigging yet. I'll take your word for it. I was in California from 79' to 86'.

    California, it's a whole other country!!

    That's going to become painfully obvious in the near future. Just watch.
    Funk bands started in CA in the mid- 60's. They came to an end there 20 years later.

    I love the Bee Gees. That doesn't mean I like discos. I never liked them.

    We all have our glory days. I don't listen to 80's music. I listen to 60's and 70's music these days.

  20. #94

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    The world would be a better place if people listened to normal f@cking music;


  21. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Your point being?

    My point being that he's overrated.

    Cheers.

  22. #96
    nothing wrong with a bit of theatre.........

  23. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    And that video proves what? That dance music could be monotonous in the 60s, too? I grant that Jimi moves better than the guy next to him but that's not what made him famous.
    I wouldn't expect you to know about the US and music circuits. Hendrix famously died in the UK.
    They did make him famous. It seems fitting.

  24. #98

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    True dat, I never played the Yakuza Chitlin‘ Circuit. Sorry about that.


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  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    True dat, I never played the Yakuza Chitlin‘ Circuit. Sorry about that.


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    You didn't miss anything.

    'Yakuza Chitllin Circuit'.

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    True dat, I never played the Yakuza Chitlin‘ Circuit. Sorry about that.


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    But you pimped out the Beatles.