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  1. #151

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    Clearly music changed after 1990. There were less groups. Outside of Whitney Houston I can’t think of many top musicians during that period. Then technology changed too. Who’d have thought there would come a day whereby one could go to a place like YouTube and download any music for free.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    BTW I'm not going to lead you through the racist implications doorway I opened above. Just pointing out the corelation and likely causation.

    What I will add is, very often people don't like what is new or novel. As an extreme well used example consider the riot at the premire for the rite of spring. Too much dissonance. The public wasn't prepared.
    A year later when the suite was performed, to a sold out audience, the public loved it. They were expecting it and had a year to digest it.

    Ignorance is also a culprit in causing people not to like things. Lots of people say they don't like opera. Likely they don't like the idea of opera. They haven't been introduced to it properly or haven't been prepared. Or real country music. Or Jazz. Or Reggae. My dad would get upset and tell me to turn down my music if I had Reggae on. But he went to the Caribbean and for some reason came back with some CDs enjoying it. Exposure certainly helps. (I have no idea why he could palate me playing Black Flag, but not Barrington Levy. Again racist door. I wonder if he ever heard me play Bad Brains.)

    I used to really not like Picasso. Until I understood what he was trying to accomplish. I also didn't appreciate EDM at all until I understood it was made for dancing. Not to sit at home and listen to through headphones on an easy chair.

  4. #153

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    Why 1990? What is different after that?
    YouTube was launched in 2005. And you can't download music from it.
    You might be thinking about Napster, but that was launched in 1999.

    I'm sure you know if many other popular artists other than Whitney.

  5. #154

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    List of the tops artist of the 90s. Based on the number of #1 singles.
    Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Boyz II Men, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, TLC, Wilson Phillips, Paula Abdul, Bryan Adams, Puff Daddy (or the artist formally known as Puff Daddy).

    None of them would I entertain the idea of listening to on my own time. Maybe Brian Adams, but not from that 90s.

  6. #155

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    For fun I'll post the top artist from every decade starting in the 40s.

    40s
    50s (1950-58 because the hot 100 was established in 1958)
    Artist Weeks at number-one
    Elvis Presley 57
    Patti Page 22
    Tony Bennett 20
    Perry Como 20
    Les Paul and Mary Ford 20
    Rosemary Clooney 13
    Eddie Fisher 13

    60s (1958-69)

    70s

    80s

    2000s
    2010s

    VERY few of those artist would I listen to.
    Elvis (but not any of his hits that's for sure)
    Les Paul and Mary Ford. Yup! Awesome!
    Rosemary Clooney. Love, come on to my house.
    The Rolling Stones. Sure, but they have more albums than good songs. IMO
    The Jackson 5 and MJ are pretty fun.
    Adele. Great singer. Not my bag, but she is talented.
    6 /7 Artists in over 80 years

    What is more noteworthy are the number of people of colour on that list. It seems to me something changed in the 2000s when Napster and Youtube arrived. People could choose to listen to whomever they wanted to. Not just what the radio or MTV shoved down their throats.

    Number of people of colour by decade
    40s = 0
    50s = 0
    60s = 1 (well the Supremes)
    70s = 4 (I'll count the multi racial KC and the sunshine band)
    80s = 5
    90s = 7
    2000s = 18 (Number of Caucasian artists 3)
    2010s = 6 (Caucasian 7)

  7. #156

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    Move over Millennial whoop, hello Gen Z romance.

  8. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    how the hell does one hang out at a jazz forum without ever having heard of a cutting session?


    This is actually an excellent post for this forum.

    How many soloists are listening for a b9 #5 b13 to include in their solos?

    The compers are keeping rhythm and the progression generic.

  9. #158

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    I like where Gen Z is going with all this. They're more like the 60's generation.

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    For fun I'll post the top artist from every decade starting in the 40s.

    40s
    50s (1950-58 because the hot 100 was established in 1958)
    Artist Weeks at number-one
    Elvis Presley 57
    Patti Page 22
    Tony Bennett 20
    Perry Como 20
    Les Paul and Mary Ford 20
    Rosemary Clooney 13
    Eddie Fisher 13

    60s (1958-69)

    70s

    80s

    2000s
    2010s

    VERY few of those artist would I listen to.
    Elvis (but not any of his hits that's for sure)
    Les Paul and Mary Ford. Yup! Awesome!
    Rosemary Clooney. Love, come on to my house.
    The Rolling Stones. Sure, but they have more albums than good songs. IMO
    The Jackson 5 and MJ are pretty fun.
    Adele. Great singer. Not my bag, but she is talented.
    6 /7 Artists in over 80 years

    What is more noteworthy are the number of people of colour on that list. It seems to me something changed in the 2000s when Napster and Youtube arrived. People could choose to listen to whomever they wanted to. Not just what the radio or MTV shoved down their throats.

    Number of people of colour by decade
    40s = 0
    50s = 0
    60s = 1 (well the Supremes)
    70s = 4 (I'll count the multi racial KC and the sunshine band)
    80s = 5
    90s = 7
    2000s = 18 (Number of Caucasian artists 3)
    2010s = 6 (Caucasian 7)
    Philly soul, Motown, Stax, Atlantic records put out poor records because non blacks didn’t buy them? Ever hear of the Stylistics? Some grew up listening to all the music of the 60’s, 70’s. All of it.

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    Why 1990? What is different after that?
    YouTube was launched in 2005. And you can't download music from it.
    You might be thinking about Napster, but that was launched in 1999.

    I'm sure you know if many other popular artists other than Whitney.
    One can download the entire YouTube catalog. Videos and music listings. And it’s easy to learn how to do it. I’ve some 1000 songs in my iTunes folder all from YouTube. And I play them back through my home audio system from my computer, to a dac, through electrostatic speakers. You have much to learn my friend.

  12. #161
    My point is that when actual professional musicians were involved in the creative proccess of making Pop Music. The synergy of their interactions and breadth of musical experiences and abilities, made for more creative music overall.

    The Monkees having the Wrecking Crew, Motown the Funk Bros., Elvis, Dusty Springfield having American Studios in Memphis,etc....


    The third generation of James Brown imitators have all of the chops and none of the actual Soul nor Feel of the original. More like Jazz students who learned Charlie Parker licks like a Parrot. Without the actual experience of playing tons of gigs in the saddle for a living!
    At least Prince had the good sense to move it forward. And even then I felt it was rather stiff and over rehearsed to death.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Good discussion fellows on all sides! I started this again from my viewpoint at my age and as a pro musician who's always loved Jazz.
    To me music that Grooves and has human interaction is what moves me.
    So that can be any genre as well, even Pop.

    When it became drum machines and Pro Tools, it became too robotic. Actual songs are not jingles or music sound tracks which depend on the exact clock.
    So when Prince and Michael Jackson became huge in the 1980s Pop embraced this rigid formula, which basically affected all music genres.
    The 80's was a horrible decade with overrated music. I only cared about $$.
    This was the 80's;




    I listen to 60's and 70's music now.

  14. #163

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    This is the most epic 'get off my lawn' thread of all time.

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    The 80's was a horrible decade with overrated music. I only cared about $$.
    This was the 80's;




    I listen to 60's and 70's music now.
    80's and 90's was the best, pls. 50's was fun. 60's only in UK was fun. 70's sucked all around, too much soft music.

    Judging from the charts though, I hated music mostly in all decades. Mainstream was something to stay away from at all times for me.

    ''And the public gets what the public wants

    But I want nothing this society's got''


  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    One can download the entire YouTube catalog. Videos and music listings. And it’s easy to learn how to do it. I’ve some 1000 songs in my iTunes folder all from YouTube. And I play them back through my home audio system from my computer, to a dac, through electrostatic speakers. You have much to learn my friend.
    wow do you buy any music at all, or just stealing?

  17. #166

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    The 80's was greedy and narcissistic. Bands were dead by 86'.

  18. #167

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    Here's some 60's soft rock;


  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Bands were dead by 86'.
    Does it even makes sense to you? I know you're doing comedy, but still?

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Does it even makes sense to you? I know you're doing comedy, but still?
    Of course they're not completely dead but there were so many other kinds of entertainment coming up. Lap dance strip clubs, rap, drum machine music, karoke, electronic music, DJs.
    I don't spend much time trying to find post 80's rock that I like. Soundgarden was good.
    I like this;


  21. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Does it even makes sense to you? I know you're doing comedy, but still?
    Boomers are lamenting. Big names are cashing out.
    Take all music after 1979 and blast it into outer space. I wouldn't care.

  22. #171

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    Generally, I like bands that wear coats and play on carpets.

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Does it even makes sense to you? I know you're doing comedy, but still?
    On the west coast we lost our band gigs overseas at the same time 'gangster' rap started. We knew each other. It was a ball of confusion. This was before 1989. It was 1985-86'.
    Earthquake Bird is a good movie. It's about the bubble in 80's Japan.

    In a word- disorienting.

  24. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    One can download the entire YouTube catalog. Videos and music listings. And it’s easy to learn how to do it. I’ve some 1000 songs in my iTunes folder all from YouTube. And I play them back through my home audio system from my computer, to a dac, through electrostatic speakers. You have much to learn my friend.
    That is not downloading, that is ripping. And is not legal. Not to mention the audio quality is less than impressive
    You have much to learn my friend.

  25. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    Philly soul, Motown, Stax, Atlantic records put out poor records because non blacks didn’t buy them? Ever hear of the Stylistics? Some grew up listening to all the music of the 60’s, 70’s. All of it.
    I don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

    Are you trying to say that despite what the top records were, there was other better music?

    Well no shit. I think that you can say the same for music made today.

    If that is that not your point, please explain.

    Also, for what it's worth I haven't heard of the Stylistics. Should I? Listened to a few cuts. Doesn't do anything for me.
    Last edited by Littlemark; 04-24-2021 at 07:48 AM.

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    My point is that when actual professional musicians were involved in the creative proccess of making Pop Music. The synergy of their interactions and breadth of musical experiences and abilities, made for more creative music overall.

    The Monkees having the Wrecking Crew, Motown the Funk Bros., Elvis, Dusty Springfield having American Studios in Memphis,etc....


    The third generation of James Brown imitators have all of the chops and none of the actual Soul nor Feel of the original. More like Jazz students who learned Charlie Parker licks like a Parrot. Without the actual experience of playing tons of gigs in the saddle for a living!
    At least Prince had the good sense to move it forward. And even then I felt it was rather stiff and over rehearsed to death.
    Ohhh "actual" musicians! As opposed to the musicians who are not actual. Got it.

    I do love the interaction of Les Paul and Les Paul and Les Paul with Les Paul. The fidelity was also top notch.

    Using the same A-Team musicians does not induce creativity. It creates a singular sound. (Granted a few different sounds fun different studios) Decreasing the breadth of sound and creativity. Having Chet Atkins produce everything out of Nashville for decades does not sound diverse. The opposite.

    Why do you want everyone to sound like James Brown or Parker? That doesn't sound very creative. Tastes change. Just as dancing changes. Dancing in 1940 is very different from 1960, is very different from 1980 is very different from today. Just as clothing styles have changed. None are better or worse. Just different.

    Why would you want everyone to dress like they were still in the 70s? *Shudder*

    http://hbz.h-cdn.co/assets/15/46/hbz...s-50781179.jpg
    Right on!

    is this soulful enough?

  27. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Boomers are lamenting. Big names are cashing out.
    Take all music after 1979 and blast it into outer space. I wouldn't care.
    I would.
    Most Punk and all hardcore would be gone. And two tone ska. Joy Division. Big Sandy and the Fly-Rite trio. Kanye West. JD McPherson. Julian Lage. Sierra Ferrell.

    Maybe not all of those.

  28. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    That is not downloading, that is ripping. And is not legal.
    nope.

    you can rip all the videos from YT to your heart's delight. since all videos on youtube are legal you're allowed to make a private copy of any content. youtube's TOS are meaningless. you do not have to accept them to use the service.

  29. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    nope.

    you can rip all the videos from YT to your heart's delight. since all videos on youtube are legal you're allowed to make a private copy of any content. youtube's TOS are meaningless. you do not have to accept them to use the service.
    Able do things, and are legally allowed to do things are very different. I'm not sure their legal team would agree with your liberal interpretation of the law.
    FYI not all videos uploaded on YT are legal.
    I'm not even sure you can legally make a mix tape recorded from the radio. Nevermind the people who rip CDs and post the audio in YouTube without the artists knowledge or consent.


    Unless you are being sarcastic. In which case, you are not making that clear. Nor is it mildly humourous.

    Think of all the musicians like Jugz69 and Marinara you are putting out of work! Will someone please think of the retired musicians! I mean children.
    Last edited by Littlemark; 04-24-2021 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Grammar

  30. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Of course they're not completely dead but there were so many other kinds of entertainment coming up. Lap dance strip clubs, rap, drum machine music, karoke, electronic music, DJs.
    I don't spend much time trying to find post 80's rock that I like. Soundgarden was good.
    I like this;

    And they’re wearing coats and playing on carpet!

  31. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg View Post
    how the hell does one hang out at a jazz forum without ever having heard of a cutting session?


    Wow...never seen that movie. There are some heavyweight modern players in that band!

  32. #181

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    Speaking of cutting contests:


  33. #182

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    And the Stylistics...

    Do you have any idea how many babies were made to this music? When that first guy starts singing, the clothes start coming off.


  34. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelostboss View Post
    My challenge to you: pick five pieces of music [any style or genre] that could be played in a thirty minute time frame without commentary, that would allow listeners to walk away knowing something about who you were!

    Could you do this, could anyone here?
    Sure. They would be pieces I composed. That would be the truest way to do that. Not that any of them are actually good, mind you, but that would also be part of my truth: I am a middling musician with pretensions.

    If you mean songs composed and performed by someone else, also sure- the songs that changed my musical life from early adulthood. Keeping it down to five would be the difficult bit.

  35. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    I like this;

    Thread diversion- Nels Cline (with twin brother on drums, it was a smidge disconcerting until I looked up Nels on Wikipedia). There is still some fine music being done in the world.


  36. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    wow do you buy any music at all, or just stealing?
    Stealing? Why would you assume that?

    The download service I use pays a royalty fee through iTunes for the music. You shouldn’t accuse anyone of doing something you have zero knowledge of lest you come off sounding like a total idiot.

    I simply refuted the post from the individual who stated its impossible to download something from YouTube. Now apologize for your ignorance too!

  37. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    I don't understand the point you are trying to make here.

    Are you trying to say that despite what the top records were, there was other better music?

    Well no shit. I think that you can say the same for music made today.

    If that is that not your point, please explain.

    Also, for what it's worth I haven't heard of the Stylistics. Should I? Listened to a few cuts. Doesn't do anything for me.
    What generation are you from! It’s a free world. Whatever floats boat.

  38. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    Able do things, and are legally allowed to do things are very different. I'm not sure their legal team would agree with your liberal interpretation of the law.
    FYI not all videos uploaded on YT are legal.
    I'm not even sure you can legally make a mix tape recorded from the radio. Nevermind the people who rip CDs and post the audio in YouTube without the artists knowledge or consent.


    Unless you are being sarcastic. I'm which case. You are not making that clear. Nor is it mildly humourous.

    Think of all the musicians like Jugz69 and Marinara you are putting out of work! Will someone please think of the retired musicians! I mean children.
    Jugz69? How did I miss that, lol

  39. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    And the Stylistics...

    Do you have any idea how many babies were made to this music? When that first guy starts singing, the clothes start coming off.

    ”I listened to a few of their cuts. Doesn’t do anything for me.”

    The Stylistics were one of the iconic groups of the 70’s. For someone to have missed hearing them entirely back then is very headscratching!

  40. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemark View Post
    Able do things, and are legally allowed to do things are very different. I'm not sure their legal team would agree with your liberal interpretation of the law.
    FYI not all videos uploaded on YT are legal.
    I'm not even sure you can legally make a mix tape recorded from the radio. Nevermind the people who rip CDs and post the audio in YouTube without the artists knowledge or consent.


    Unless you are being sarcastic. I'm which case. You are not making that clear. Nor is it mildly humourous.

    Think of all the musicians like Jugz69 and Marinara you are putting out of work! Will someone please think of the retired musicians! I mean children.
    Oh boy, are you a part of the internet download police?

    Were you around in 1979 when VCR’s were a thing? Did you record a movie from HBO? So you “ripped” movies for your own use?

    There are legal download services. Simply because you’re not aware of them is not a valid argument.

  41. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    Stealing? Why would you assume that?

    The download service I use pays a royalty fee through iTunes for the music. You shouldn’t accuse anyone of doing something you have zero knowledge of lest you come off sounding like a total idiot.

    I simply refuted the post from the individual who stated its impossible to download something from YouTube. Now apologize for your ignorance too!
    You are bragging about having 1000 tunes downloaded via youtube. I assume you download it for your listening pleasure? Why not buy those tunes on iTunes or Apple or whatever? I know how to download from youtube using a shady app, either mp3 or mp4, any child knows that.

    My question to you sir is, why? Personally I do it once in a while only for work purposes, if i need to transcribe a tune, and, and that's important, if I'm not going to use it for listening pleasure. Even then I still feel bad and I have to admit I'm not doing a right thing.

    But any music that I truly like I buy. I make sure I pay. If you don't, you are a thief. I'm not apologizing, I directly call you a thief.

  42. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    You are bragging about having 1000 tunes downloaded via youtube. I assume you download it for your listening pleasure? Why not buy those tunes on iTunes or Apple or whatever? I know how to download from youtube using a shady app, either mp3 or mp4, any child knows that.

    My question to you sir is, why? Personally I do it once in a while only for work purposes, if i need to transcribe a tune, and, and that's important, if I'm not going to use it for listening pleasure. Even then I still feel bad and I have to admit I'm not doing a right thing.

    But any music that I truly like I buy. I make sure I pay. If you don't, you are a thief. I'm not apologizing, I directly call you a thief.
    I’m the thief for acknowledging doing the identical thing you do? That’s the pot calling the kettle black. I’ve also got a 3000 album collection and a 2000 cd collection. A Russian from a mafia controlled country calling anyone a thief is rich!

  43. #192

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    Yeah I imagine Hep voted for Putin like I voted for Boris Johnson.

  44. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    I’m the thief for acknowledging doing the identical thing you do? That’s the pot calling the kettle black. I’ve also got a 3000 album collection and a 2000 cd collection. A Russian from a mafia controlled country calling anyone a thief is rich!
    Ok, I pledge I will stop doing this for whatever reasons. I will not download any music from youtube or any source for free from now on. Because yes, if I'm doing this I'm stealing and I'm a thief too, even if I've never done this in numbers that you claimed, not even close. No matter, stealing is stealing. I wont do it again. Will you?

  45. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    Ok, I pledge I will stop doing this for whatever reasons. I will not download any music from youtube or any source for free from now on. Because yes, if I'm doing this I'm stealing and I'm a thief too, even if I've never done this in numbers that you claimed, not even close. No matter, stealing is stealing. I wont do it again. Will you?
    I stopped downloading years ago. I’m not listening to music as I once did. But I applaud you for your acknowledgment.

  46. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    Yeah I imagine Hep voted for Putin like I voted for Boris Johnson.
    There aren’t many on this forum who’ve been to Russia. I have. I spent a year between Russia and Ukraine. I truly enjoyed the laid back approach to life. And I met many truly wonderful people. That experience was one of the most rewarding of my life. And one learns that nothing happens without someone having their hand out. That in no way diminishes the beauty of either country. It’s simply reality.

  47. #196

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    This forum really really removes any regret I might have had about ultimately not pursuing my teenage dream of becoming a musician

  48. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    Stealing? Why would you assume that?

    The download service I use pays a royalty fee through iTunes for the music. You shouldn’t accuse anyone of doing something you have zero knowledge of lest you come off sounding like a total idiot.

    I simply refuted the post from the individual who stated its impossible to download something from YouTube. Now apologize for your ignorance too!
    You have not refuted my post. You are not downloading anything FROM YouTube. You are using a program that rips the file from YouTube. And you download it from your program. I am interested to know about this program. I have doubts about it paying royalties. Especially if the artist has no connection to iTunes.

    I was taking issue with your nomenclature.
    Last edited by Littlemark; 04-24-2021 at 04:11 PM.

  49. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    What generation are you from! It’s a free world. Whatever floats boat.
    That doesn't clarify your meaning. And is confusing.

    When did I imply you aren't allowed to like whatever you want? I think I've been making the opposite point since the start of the thread.

    What generation do you think I'm from?

    PS. It is not a free world.
    Last edited by Littlemark; 04-24-2021 at 04:13 PM.

  50. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    And the Stylistics...

    Do you have any idea how many babies were made to this music? When that first guy starts singing, the clothes start coming off.



    My girlfriend literally turned to me and said "what the hell are you listening to?" With a scowl on her face.
    That's why I love her.
    Last edited by Littlemark; 04-24-2021 at 04:18 PM.

  51. #200

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    It's entirely possible. Someone with whom I went to music school with had never heard the Beatles. They were vaguely aware they were a music group.
    I find that more baffling.