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  1. #451
    Well if things stayed the same it would be a very boring world. I live in an area that has become dead as a doornail concerning good live shows. Since I can look in at Smalls in NYC or The Baked Potato in LA 3rd and Lindley in Nashville YT is quite valuable to me! But the age of the trained rat 13 year old virtuoso is upon us also. I lived in KC.Mo. for about 13 years and there were several good organ trio guys and a chance to get a fair amount of paid work with GB gigs. They spent 185,000$ on a white plastic saxophone Charlie Parker played one time at the Massey Hall concert for The Jazz Museum,which included an ongoing live jazz music room named The Blue Room. But Ive been away from there for about 10 years,unfortunately. But even back then I noticed buy some"jazz" cheseburgers or get your spring wardrobe "jazzed up" more than very many making a living at it.But a few really good ones did. The cities retailers liked to use the word "jazz" to sell things. I believe Mike Metheny and Jerry Hahn settled there. Covid knocked out even the big timers for a while. Someone who is there now would be more knowledgeable. As far as ease to music education with a tap of the fingers I think modern times have a lot to offer. But the art form just isnt shiny and new anymore. Too bad.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #452
    Yes that's the guy!

  4. #453

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Back in the day Mozart wrote symphonies, those were the days.
    I love maceo. You see? Not of my generation but I still love the guy. I saw him LIVE at least twice. Did you ever see snarky?
    Musics been shit since Rameau. Oh wait, I quite like Rossini.

  5. #454

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    Poor old Salieri. I feel he deserves better than being the victim of worst theatrical hatchet job since Richard III


  6. #455

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    He’s also a Japanese video game character, and looks pretty badass so there is that


  7. #456

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Back in the day Mozart wrote symphonies, those were the days.
    I love maceo. You see? Not of my generation but I still love the guy. I saw him LIVE at least twice. Did you ever see snarky?
    Hi, M,
    Yes. But, only due to those on this Forum who have posted their music(Snarky). However, there is a generational thing for most of us that sets your standards of performance and when you grow up on a steady diet of James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Sam and Dave, B,S and T, Tower of Power, Wayne Cochran, Rufus Thomas, or Maceo's hot band, Snarky just doesn't make the cut. It's not that they're bad but they don't have the "feel" for me. So, if you like them . . . great! It's your honest opinion and I've given mine. Here's Blue-eyed Soul Brother Wayne Cochran and the C.C. Riders and the music that I played for most of my professional career as a Saxer and which dominated the club scene in the late 60's and 70's. Enjoy!
    Play live . . . Marinero


  8. #457
    The last several years I have been performing at retirement centers with my boom-box. Many in my audience think the Benny Goodman Groups with Charlie Christian and myself adding in is music that brings back very pleasant memories. What people liked when they were happy and young is usually what they think is the best music. A lot of Baby Boomers like classic rock as do I. Many radio stations have that format. Playing retirement centers is a good way to share your music and help cover expenses. The people who were poor thru life end up in really crappy centers who may not pay well but the experience of gratitude and happiness from your audience makes it worthwhile. I think its best to cover the main styles but sometimes they hire classical players. Covid has knocked this type of work and activity out for a while but soon I think it will come back. If you were stuck in one of those places as many of us will, like it or not,you would want to hear some good LIVE GUITAR!!!

  9. #458

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve burchfield
    The last several years I have been performing at retirement centers with my boom-box. Many in my audience think the Benny Goodman Groups with Charlie Christian and myself adding in is music that brings back very pleasant memories. What people liked when they were happy and young is usually what they think is the best music. A lot of Baby Boomers like classic rock as do I. Many radio stations have that format. Playing retirement centers is a good way to share your music and help cover expenses. The people who were poor thru life end up in really crappy centers who may not pay well but the experience of gratitude and happiness from your audience makes it worthwhile. I think its best to cover the main styles but sometimes they hire classical players. Covid has knocked this type of work and activity out for a while but soon I think it will come back. If you were stuck in one of those places as many of us will, like it or not,you would want to hear some good LIVE GUITAR!!!
    Hi, S,
    Can I ask what they pay for a gig (usually 45 minutes to one hour) in your area at the retirement centers?
    Play live . . . Marinero

  10. #459

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    Retirement centers... Benny Goodman, Charlie Christian? If you were in your twenties in the 1930s, you're over a hundred years old now. Average age of residents in retirement homes is 84, they were twenty in the 1957.

    Better change that set list, the older boomers are now in their seventies.

    Good on you though... I've done that with a combo before, no cash, paid with smiles and tapping feet. I remember Elvis songs were a big hit.

  11. #460
    I befriended some of Wayne Cochrane's band members when I lived in New Orleans in the 1970's. Kenny Cordray was a great guitarist from Houston, Texas
    who used to play with Wayne during the Jaco period.

    Hard to explain to younger musicians who never experienced those players on real live gigs. The videos don't do justice to them
    Another band was The Meters. Live they were so powerful, it just doesn't co e through as much on records,videos,etc.

  12. #461

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    I don’t know if it has been mentioned before (460 posts :yikes: ) but the best young musicians I have come across are either classical or bluegrass/Americana players. They aren’t really interested in pop music for all the same reason as the geezers on this forum.

    In a way, the ultra produced edm influenced pop music is liberating to young musicians I’ve met (I have several young cousins and nephews who are musicians in their twenties). They have no fantasies of stadium concerts and multi-million dollar advances. A bit like bebop players of the 30’s and 40’s, these young players I’ve met are obsessed with technique, virtuosity, and the respect of other musicians. My generation all dreamed of mega stardom, and frankly tried too hard to be Yngvie, SVR, or Slash. Of course, I have no idea how any of them will make a living, but that’s for another conversation.

    Admittedly, as a middle aged father of small children I am no judge of the current music scene. But based on my experience I have no fear for the seriousness or technical proficiency of young musicians.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #462
    The difference now is Musicians and Entertainers have become mostly Amway Salespeople. The actual product is not as relevant as the visual, and amount of subscribers to your YouTube or Facebook page.

    And there in lies the problem with the whole model. Can you imagine Jaco, Jimi, Coltrane, Charlie Parker having to do this? What utter B.S.!

    Glad I'm old and lived in the Golden Age, even if it was the end of it!

  14. #463

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    If you missed the 60’s or 70’s you missed out.

  15. #464

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    The difference now is Musicians and Entertainers have become mostly Amway Salespeople. The actual product is not as relevant as the visual, and amount of subscribers to your YouTube or Facebook page.

    And there in lies the problem with the whole model. Can you imagine Jaco, Jimi, Coltrane, Charlie Parker having to do this? What utter B.S.!

    Glad I'm old and lived in the Golden Age, even if it was the end of it!

    Yeah ... You lived of your love for music .. pure and nurturing and didn't care about neither record or ticket sales .. often you even played for free right? .. pure love!

    No product, no image .. Just musicians in every day clothes playing whatever their hearts where bursting with that day .. Those days gone by of pure music and no gimmicks


  16. #465

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    If you missed the 60’s or 70’s you missed out.
    Really?


  17. #466

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Yeah ... You lived of your love for music .. pure and nurturing and didn't care about neither record or ticket sales .. often you even played for free right? .. pure love!

    No product, no image .. Just musicians in every day clothes playing whatever their hearts where bursting with that day .. Those days gone by of pure music and no gimmicks



    Hi, Lobo,
    You are a practical man and your logic makes perfect sense for popular entertainers. However, when you compare Jimi Hendricks to artists like Coltrane or Bird, the logic becomes flawed. The problem with many artists is that they love their Art more than they love money. Many are very impractical people but have a gift from the gods that makes living a pedestrian existence very difficult. Throughout my life, I have played with these "poetes maudits" and only a handful were capable of making a decent living in another venue. But, it wasn't just their lack of commercial mercantability but rather that they couldn't imagine doing anything else in their lives other than music. Some get inheritances, some marry well, and some will scrabble their entire lives for money. So, what I'm saying is that some very talented people will never be successful ,in a commercial sense, because their love for Art is impractical, passionate, and revered and they just don't have the survival skills. Poe died in a gutter in a drunken stupor; Van Gogh died by suicide; Mozart was penniless at his death; Toulouse-Lautrec died of alcoholism and syphyllis; Rembrandt died in poverty and bankruptcy . . . our lives would be less without their voices.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  18. #467
    I'm old enough to remember that when Jimi Hendrix quit doing his theatrics the critics and crowd were quite unhappy with his newer music.
    Hendrix was an incredibly inventive songwriter as well as guitarist and showman.

    This could also be applied to Jaco Pastorius as well. People tend to forget his prolific songwriting.
    It's become a visual and sales medium that shows off ones technical skills.To the detriment of audio and great songs with harmonic depth and adventure.

  19. #468

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Really?

    Truly. I couldn’t imagine life without experiencIng the endorphins released over that new Santana recording featuring black magic woman, or the thousand or so hits surrounding the days of my youth. Those were the days of musicality which btw are the musical bar that will never again be equaled. You just simply had to be there.

  20. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, Lobo,
    You are a practical man and your logic makes perfect sense for popular entertainers. However, when you compare Jimi Hendricks to artists like Coltrane or Bird, the logic becomes flawed. The problem with many artists is that they love their Art more than they love money. Many are very impractical people but have a gift from the gods that makes living a pedestrian existence very difficult. Throughout my life, I have played with these "poetes maudits" and only a handful were capable of making a decent living in another venue. But, it wasn't just their lack of commercial mercantability but rather that they couldn't imagine doing anything else in their lives other than music. Some get inheritances, some marry well, and some will scrabble their entire lives for money. So, what I'm saying is that some very talented people will never be successful ,in a commercial sense, because their love for Art is impractical, passionate, and revered and they just don't have the survival skills. Poe died in a gutter in a drunken stupor; Van Gogh died by suicide; Mozart was penniless at his death; Toulouse-Lautrec died of alcoholism and syphyllis; Rembrandt died in poverty and bankruptcy . . . our lives would be less without their voices.
    Play live . . . Marinero


    In order to make that case you need to show that those artist actually had other skills that they could have made a decent living of, but choose their art and poverty over a decent career.


    I could make a case they they where just outcasts with no other ability than to blow their horn .. Outcasts that ended their sad lives prematurely as junkies btw.



    So ... Do you have any examples of artists that turned down a lucrative career for their art?


    You personally didn't, right?
    I mean you could have suffered in poverty for your art, but someone you took up a normal job as far as I recall from your posts and haven't played for decades as far as I remember .. Hell you even refuse to post an example of your playing when asked.

    You demand the world from other people, but don't really live up to what you preach yourself, do you?

  21. #470

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Hell you even refuse to post an example of your playing when asked.
    Who the “hell” are you to make such demands of anyone here? Out of your lane much?

  22. #471

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Who the “hell” are you to make such demands of anyone here? Out of your lane much?
    No.

    You've never seen me ask for anybody else's playing.


    Marinero has critiqued of practically every single player born after 1959. Memorable highlights are from McLaughling, Sco and Metheny to current players like Lage and Strino.

    This is coupled with tales of how is own exploits as a player from jazz to classical. Tales of how he was immersed in beauty unlike the robotic young ones of today.

    Asking him to show a clip of his playing is reasonable.

    Also fine to question how he demands people sacrifice themselves to their art without any monetary considerations, while he's been working a daytime job for ages



    But maybe I misunderstand this forum? .. Is this in actuality a safe space for criticizing practically any living musician?

  23. #472

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    IIRC, the Jefferson Airplane Levi's advertisement was on radios around 1967. Rock for commercial $$$ has been around for a long time.

  24. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    In order to make that case you need to show that those artist actually had other skills that they could have made a decent living of, but choose their art and poverty over a decent career.


    I could make a case they they where just outcasts with no other ability than to blow their horn .. Outcasts that ended their sad lives prematurely as junkies btw.



    So ... Do you have any examples of artists that turned down a lucrative career for their art?


    You personally didn't, right?
    I mean you could have suffered in poverty for your art, but someone you took up a normal job as far as I recall from your posts and haven't played for decades as far as I remember .. Hell you even refuse to post an example of your playing when asked.

    You demand the world from other people, but don't really live up to what you preach yourself, do you?
    Hi, Lobo,
    Thanks for your reply. I am very flattered by the interest you take in my life and the comically distorted facts you continue to mutter. However I ,now, believe these dialogues must have a profound therapeutic effect on your daily life and ,for that, I am much pleased. I am ,also, well-convinced by the language in your previous posts that you have never played as a working professional musician, never belonged to a musician's union, never been paid for studio recordings as I have for the majority of my life and, recently, until Covid, and are, at best, a frustrated dilettante as is easily seen by your aberrant views and quirky ideas about music. However, I will not put you on an "ignore" list since I am a believer in Free Speech but will refrain in the future to respond to your negative and frankly, bizarre personal attacks since, I believe, they will continue to profligate ad nauseum. So, Lobo, you'll just have to keep guessing as you fritter away wasted time that could have been better spent practicing your instrument in preparation for busking on whatever busy corner is closest to home. I wish you best of luck . . . and remember--Key of C . . . Mary had a little lamb . . . little lamb . . . little lamb . . . well, I think you know the rest.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  25. #474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, Lobo,
    Thanks for your reply. I am very flattered by the interest you take in my life and the comically distorted facts you continue to mutter. However I ,now, believe these dialogues must have a profound therapeutic effect on your daily life and ,for that, I am much pleased. I am ,also, well-convinced by the language in your previous posts that you have never played as a working professional musician, never belonged to a musician's union, never been paid for studio recordings as I have for the majority of my life and, recently, until Covid, and are, at best, a frustrated dilettante as is easily seen by your aberrant views and quirky ideas about music. However, I will not put you on an "ignore" list since I am a believer in Free Speech but will refrain in the future to respond to your negative and frankly, bizarre personal attacks since, I believe, they will continue to profligate ad nauseum. So, Lobo, you'll just have to keep guessing as you fritter away wasted time that could have been better spent practicing your instrument in preparation for busking on whatever busy corner is closest to home. I wish you best of luck . . . and remember--Key of C . . . Mary had a little lamb . . . little lamb . . . little lamb . . . well, I think you know the rest.
    Play live . . . Marinero
    Another non reply.

    You actually dont have anything on offer, you?


    Ok then keep dissing the ones that do then.

    Cheers Marinero
    Last edited by Lobomov; 05-28-2021 at 05:24 PM.

  26. #475
    I'm sorry things have become so toxic in this thread. Even though I've been a professional musician for the majority of my life, I don't think my opinions are more or less important than anyone else's.
    I do think it gives me insight to understand how the career works in order to survive and make a living LOL!

    I have also come to appreciate players like Glenn Campbell, Neil Levang, and many others as the true heroes of our profession.
    Even most weren't known outside of their professional circles, they were the true
    musicians who could play anything called upon in any situation.