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  1. #1

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    The French composers associated with this movement had a huge influence on certain jazz artists. I know Coryell recorded several Ravel pieces, Kreisberg has a beautiful arrangement of Debussy with analysis on his mini-lesson site.Keith Jarret, Bill Evans, Pat Metheny... It's an interesting influence. Any thoughts...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    The influence of classical music on jazz music is obvious.Sometimes they can also be ideas of the producers.

  4. #3

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    When I read the title I thought you were talking about painters... Monet, Renoit, Van Gough...

  5. #4

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    Django was hugely influenced by impressionist composers and artists.

  6. #5

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    our very own Mark Kleinhaut
    is great at impressionism

    check his stuff out he’s wonderful

  7. #6

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    I'll admit, I had never heard of the term "impressionism" applied to music, and I had to look it up.

    The definition of it makes it sound like modern-day "soundtracks" (not the pop song ones), as well as what they call "ambient" music today? Which I find interesting, because some of the players I listen to have very large "ambient" characteristics in their music: Bill Frisell, Duke Levine, Jim Campilongo... not that they aren't "playing songs", of course they are, but so much of what they do, to me, has me listening to an overall "mood" or "color", equally as much as I would be listening to the melody...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaco
    The French composers associated with this movement had a huge influence on certain jazz artists. I know Coryell recorded several Ravel pieces, Kreisberg has a beautiful arrangement of Debussy with analysis on his mini-lesson site.Keith Jarret, Bill Evans, Pat Metheny... It's an interesting influence. Any thoughts...
    goes back a long way


    After around twenty years of thinking I liked it, I realise I just don’t like Debussy very much. I do like Ravel.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    I'll admit, I had never heard of the term "impressionism" applied to music, and I had to look it up.

    The definition of it makes it sound like modern-day "soundtracks" (not the pop song ones), as well as what they call "ambient" music today? Which I find interesting, because some of the players I listen to have very large "ambient" characteristics in their music: Bill Frisell, Duke Levine, Jim Campilongo... not that they aren't "playing songs", of course they are, but so much of what they do, to me, has me listening to an overall "mood" or "color", equally as much as I would be listening to the melody...
    Check out Debussy, Ravel, Satie.

  10. #9

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    Impressionism in Music, Art, and Literature is like taking a ride through the country with Grandma and Grandpa on Sunday. "Look at the pretty cows in the field, kids. Isn't it a beautiful scene? . . . The road winds in a sweeping arc as the car moves slowly upward towards a rocky scenic hilltop. A small town appears on the horizon . . . "Grandma, can we stop for an ice cream?"
    Play live . . . Marinero

  11. #10

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    Allan Holdsworth was massively into Debussy and Ravel. It’s all over his music.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Impressionism in Music, Art, and Literature is like taking a ride through the country with Grandma and Grandpa on Sunday. "Look at the pretty cows in the field, kids. Isn't it a beautiful scene? . . . The road winds in a sweeping arc as the car moves slowly upward towards a rocky scenic hilltop. A small town appears on the horizon . . . "Grandma, can we stop for an ice cream?"
    Play live . . . Marinero
    Well that's one point of view.

    The truth is that Impressionist oil painting has held strong because painters can't compete with photographs when it comes to realism, and all that modern shtuff with paint thrown at the canvas is crap (for the most part) and everybody knows it.

    There are some bad impressionists out there too, of course. But the good ones charge big $$$$$$. California Impressionism is a fave of this collector.

    Laguna Beach Art Gallery | Historical California Impressionists

  13. #12

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    Many years ago I saw some of the ‘big-name’ impressionist paintings in the Musee D’Orsay in Paris. I was quite surprised that you could go right up to them, there appeared to be no security or barrier in front of them (I don’t know if it’s still like that).

    The impressionist paintings were all in the top gallery where there is some natural light through glass panels in the roof. What struck me was how the paintings seemed to really glow with light, it looked like they were lit from behind or something. The colours really leapt out, they looked as if they had only just been painted.

    No reproduction I have seen gets anywhere near capturing the effect of seeing them ‘in the flesh’.

  14. #13

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    Yep. Wifey and I have been to the 2nd floor at the Metropolitan Museum Of Art many times (Euro oil paintings). We always make a bee line to it after entereing, then go see other stuff with whatever time we have left. The Getty in LA is pretty good too but just doesn't have the sheer number of paintings as compared to the Met.

  15. #14

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    This is making me want to go to an art gallery again (when we’re allowed to!).

    Here’s a photo I took when we went to the Musee D’Orsay, this must be about 30 years ago!

    Impressionism and Jazz-2cfb5db6-4eaa-4471-8157-5af110a936a3-jpeg

  16. #15

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    the Met is stunning. Its art collection matched only by the grandeur of what must be the greatest gift shop in the Western Hemisphere.

    I like looking at paintings. I don’t always understand what I’m looking at and I quite enjoy that. Actually it’s becoming one of things I enjoy most.

    Impressionism is the first move into abstraction of course (alright maybe Turner gets some points.) it’s hard to believe today that so many of those familiar paintings were regarded as frightful modern daubings.

    Where people out the legit art/modern crap line varies. Generally I find such discussions uninteresting anyway, and most people seem imagine their aesthetic preferences to be objective. I have my own line... but the thing is I like paintings. Installations not so much.

    but if you look in the right way you might be able to see how strange some familiar art is.
    Last edited by christianm77; 03-28-2021 at 03:35 PM.

  17. #16
    Up until Debussey, all traditional western composition was done as counterpoint on linear melody. The harmony was not structured vertically the way we think of jazz. Debussey, and le six were the first to rewrite the harmonic break from the Germanic tradition, so we owe a lot more to those cats than just their intoduction of extended harmony.
    There was also a lot that Debussey was doing that didn't get realized in a jazz way until Ornette and the free jazz movement re-envisioned the role of defined harmony that was marked in bar lines.
    It was an exciting time in both art and music. Amazing what can happen when innovation meets an open mind.

  18. #17

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    Most important 20th Century composer:


  19. #18

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  20. #19

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    There is a lot of impressionist influence on some of the big bands, including Duke Ellington. There is a famous version of Clair de Lune by (IIRC) Artie Shaw or Woodie Herman. Can’t find it right now.

    I would say Miles, Wayne Shorter, Bill Evans, and Jim Hall approach that imagistic type of music more than most. Herbie Hancock, Joni Mitchell (yes I said that—jazz composer), Chick Corea, Bill Frisell and Pat Metheny are more contemporary artists who paint music portraits in a fairly abstract way.

    By the way I think it’s helpful to put down some definitions—this is from Wikipedia:

    Impressionism is a 19th-century art movement characterized by relatively small, thin, yet visible brush strokes, open composition, emphasis on accurate depiction of light in its changing qualities (often accentuating the effects of the passage of time), ordinary subject matter, inclusion of movement as a crucial element of human perception and experience, and unusual visual angles.

    And Impressionist Music:

    Impressionism in music was a movement among various composers in Western classical music (mainly during the late 19th and early 20th centuries) whose music focuses on mood and atmosphere, "conveying the moods and emotions aroused by the subject rather than a detailed tone?picture". "Impressionism" is a philosophical and aesthetic term borrowed from late 19th-century French painting after Monet's Impression, Sunrise. Composers were labeled impressionists by analogy to the impressionist painters who use starkly contrasting colors, effect of light on an object, blurry foreground and background, flattening perspective, etc. to make the observer focus his attention on the overall impression. The most prominent feature in musical impressionism is the use of "color", or in musical terms, timbre, which can be achieved through orchestration, harmonic usage, texture, etc. Other elements of music impressionism also involve new chord combinations, ambiguous tonality, extended harmonies, use of modes and exotic scales, parallel motion, extra-musicality, and evocative titles such as Reflets dans l'eau (Reflections on the water, 1905), Brouillards (Mists, 1913) etc.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    What struck me was how the paintings seemed to really glow with light, it looked like they were lit from behind or something. The colours really leapt out, they looked as if they had only just been painted.
    Many Impressionists painted on a white ground to achieve that immediacy. The natural light at Musée d'Orsay brings it out.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    T
    And Impressionist Music:
    The most prominent feature in musical impressionism is the use of "color", or in musical terms, timbre, which can be achieved through orchestration, harmonic usage, texture, etc.
    Hmmm. Wikipedia eh?

    I've always understood timbre to mean tone quality. Is that incorrect or too narrow, guys?

  23. #22

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    Any thread that speaks of Ravel and Monet gets a thumbs up from me! You have to go to "La gare d'Orsay" at least once in your life.


  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    What struck me was how the paintings seemed to really glow with light, it looked like they were lit from behind or something. The colours really leapt out, they looked as if they had only just been painted.
    ’.
    Monet always described himself as a "painter of light."

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Any thread that speaks of Ravel and Monet gets a thumbs up from me! You have to go to "La gare d'Orsay" at least once in your life.
    +1 on threads discussing Monet and Ravel! The Musée d’Orsay is great!

    But remember that while Monet called himself a “painter of light”, neither Debussy or Ravel called themselves “Impressionists”. For much of Debussy’s career he thought himself more aligned with the Symbolists, who wanted to probe the inner psychology of things, rather than the surface.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Any thread that speaks of Ravel and Monet gets a thumbs up from me! You have to go to "La gare d'Orsay" at least once in your life.

    O.K., Peter,
    You'll have your share of those who like this maddening dribble. However, let me explain it through a simple parody.
    Mr. and Mrs. LeFarge have tickets for Ravel at "La Gare d'Orsay" on Friday night. Mr. LeFarge is a banker
    who has some social standing in the community. Mrs. LeFarge is a housewife who belongs to the Garden Club. Whenever
    they go to the symphony, Mr. Lefarge wears a two-piece tuxedo with a lemon-colored bow tie. His wife, Madeline, wears a
    faux silk chemise dress, black, with her deceased mother's diamond ear rings and a simple silver necklace. They have good seats given to them by a valued member of Mr. LeFarge's bank. Mr. LeFarge has worked hard this week and before coming to the concert has a double-martini with a blue cheese olive. Within the first ten minutes of the performance, Mr. LeFarge is
    beginning to nod off. He struggles to keep his eyes open since his wife is scanning the concert halls for people she knows-
    especially in the Garden Club. He fight desperately but his head convulses in a rhythmic jerk as he goes in and out of consciousness to Ravel. Several times, he muffles a guttural snore. Madeline is embarrassed and upset. This is Ravel and
    the music and their social standing must be respected. After all, it's Impressionism. However, poor old LeFarge cannot
    battle the Vodka Martini and Ravel in one seating. It's more than a reasonable person can expect and LeFarge loses his
    fight with consciousness and only the thundering applause at the final curtain will bring him back to "La Gare."
    So, a reasonable person might ask: do we blame Ravel, the vodka martini, or the rising Fascism of the Garden Club
    for poor Lefarge's social dilemna on Monday morning? Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  27. #26

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    In response to the last post, it seems self-defeating to, on the one hand, crave interaction yet, on the other, to go out of one's way to make it as unpleasant and "complicated" as possible. Try a different approach? Just a suggestion.

  28. #27

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    And Ravel was influenced by jazz also. Here’s some discussion.

    Finding Jazz in Maurice Ravel's Piano Concerto | WRTI

  29. #28

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    Making a Martini with vodka is bad enough, but a blue-cheese olive is insufferable. In any case, what is a double Martini? Is it served in a vase?


  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Making a Martini with vodka is bad enough, but a blue-cheese olive is insufferable. In any case, what is a double Martini? Is it served in a vase?

    Hi, L,
    Vodka Martinis are reserved for the hardcore. No gentle lulling into LaLa Land. And a BCO is mandatory in some parts of the country--especially the Midwest. A double "Mart" is also quite standard since a standard 2-3 ounces of the revered fluid hardly wets one's palette. Any top shelf establishment disregards standard "pours"--especially with their good customers.
    Back to Music. Did you notice in the above abominable piece by Debussy at about 1:15 -1:20 ,and forward, a motif Bernstein definitely stole from D for his West Side Story? Thanks for your reply and your sense of humor!
    Play live . . . Marinero

  31. #30

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    Gin or GTFO

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Gin or GTFO
    Hi, C,
    GTFO= Gin Tonic (F??) Olive. I give up.
    Play live . . . and sober . . . Marinero

  33. #32

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    kamasi washington does debussy



    cheers

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, L,
    Vodka Martinis are reserved for the hardcore. No gentle lulling into LaLa Land. And a BCO is mandatory in some parts of the country--especially the Midwest. A double "Mart" is also quite standard since a standard 2-3 ounces of the revered fluid hardly wets one's palette. Any top shelf establishment disregards standard "pours"--especially with their good customers.
    Back to Music. Did you notice in the above abominable piece by Debussy at about 1:15 -1:20 ,and forward, a motif Bernstein definitely stole from D for his West Side Story? Thanks for your reply and your sense of humor!
    Play live . . . Marinero
    Thank you, Marinero. I am familiar only with Martini served in a standard glass, and filling it to the brim. The revolving lounge at the Bonavista in Los Angeles was one good place to drink them.

    I will listen again to West Side Story.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, C,
    GTFO= Gin Tonic (F??) Olive. I give up.
    never had a martini (vodka or gin) in my life..but i know some barroom slang

    translation would be- gin martini or Get The eFF Out

    charmed i'm sure...haha

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 03-29-2021 at 05:55 PM.

  36. #35

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    It's the latter, of course.

    Don't like my drivin? Dial 1-800-GTFO.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    never had a martini (vodka or gin) in my life..but i know some barroom slang

    translation would be- gin martini or Get The eFF Out

    charmed i'm sure...haha

    cheers
    See, N, what I miss not being conversant in Y2K dribble? Oh well . . . I'll have to leave that to another generation. In my generation . . . you had to be careful what you said to someone. What a difference the internet generation assumes in personal communication! However, it's a long sail to England. Play live . . .Marinero

  38. #37

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    True, many jazz musicians were influenced by impressionist styles in classical music, painting, literature, and so on.
    OTOH, while Charlie Parker - and other jazz musicians - loved Debussy, his playing was purely expressive. Django loved the French impressionist painters, but his own paintings show the attributes of expressionism.

    I'd connect impressionism with cool jazz, classical-related chamber jazz, etc., but since the beginning of jazz most of its genres are much more related to expressionist than impressionist movements. To me the nature of jazz is expressionism!

  39. #38

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    I prefer abstract expressionism both in painting and music.

  40. #39

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    ^ jim hall with california abstract expressionist painter john altoon



    cheers

    ps- jim hall was probably thinkin' don't drip any paint on my van eps string damper! haha

  41. #40

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    The painting looks like Jim?

  42. #41

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    I was thinking Darth Vader actually.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was thinking Darth Vader actually.
    I see C3PO. So I guess "expressionism" is where inkblots came from LOL

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    The painting looks like Jim?
    The dark soul of Jim Hall...uncomfortably truthful...

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was thinking Darth Vader actually.
    Quite.

    Also, surprised to see they were holding jazz festivals in the Pacific as early as 1227, so I'm missing something there.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    I prefer abstract expressionism both in painting and music.
    Hi, C,
    Can you explain the basic elements of Abstract Expressionist Music as well as providing an example of this in Jazz Music? Thanks in advance. Play live . . . Marinero

  47. #46

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  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was thinking Darth Vader actually.
    darth vader wasnt even a glimmer in george lucas' eye when that was painted!...precedes star wars by about 20 years!

    cheers

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was thinking Darth Vader actually.
    Darth Hall

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    Man I’ve started feeling weirdly furious now when I see chord symbols analysing classical harmony...

    What is happening to meeeeeeee????

  51. #50

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    Typical jazz chords...only too many chords in a measure.