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  1. #1

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    So in conversation with a sort of financial advisor/close/ trusted friend we discussed would it be better to have more assets and less cash.If so my question here is......are there guitars/ equipment worth looking at as assets?Is an asset the same as an investment?ignoramous EarlBrother

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  3. #2

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    If I was going to invest in guitars it would be vintage Martins. They go up every year and never suffered the "price correction" that old Fenders did when the bubble burst.

  4. #3

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    I think the issue is that only the best guitars (no refinish, all original parts, case and documentation existing) have a high likelihood to go up in value in the long run. In the current vintage craze a lot of mediocre old stuff is just swimming along in the wake of the high-end market.

    If I were to buy a vintage guitar today, it would go for something iconic, well-know among non-musicians and most versatile. Something like a pre-CBS sunburst strat or a blackguard tele.

  5. #4

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    Try this: have your financial buddy drop $10K into an S&P 500 Index fund, and you buy $10K worth of "good guitars;" in 10 years, sell the guitars, and please post again on what you both have at that point. [I'm being half-serious, as this would be a fascinating experiment!]

  6. #5
    Done and done!see ya in 10 years.haha i think i will just do some home improvements.And research other equity/asset options.At my age though get quick rich skeemes are most attractive.lol uh rich quit, rich quack rich quick ahh there it is one of those.would do me fine.Dont tell the bride.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon View Post
    If I was going to invest in guitars it would be vintage Martins. They go up every year and never suffered the "price correction" that old Fenders did when the bubble burst.
    the word 'yet' is missing somewhere. Otherwise you are basically saying that Martins only can go up based on historical data.

  8. #7

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    I think most good advisors would tell you collectibles are ok as a small percentage of your overall portfolio, if you can enjoy the ownership without undue burden. That is, if you have a million dollars, 20K worth of rare guitars is no big financial risk, and fun, too, as long as you don't worry about storage, damage, theft, etc.

    I always think about an "exit plan" with tangible assets- how are you going to get rid of it, and when/why would you sell it?
    For guitars, unless you have a private buyer lined up, whether it's auction, reverb, or consignment, you're looking at a 15-25% cut.

    I've sold a couple of instruments that I'd had for decades, and got 2-4x what I paid for them. Seems great, until you do the math- a savings bond would be just as good an investment, and if you factor in inflation, you're about even.

    As to Martins, the ones that are worth a lot are "pre-war", or with Brazilian Rosewood, etc. They've made 2 million guitars and counting, so you have to have something special. My 10 year old D-35 is worth a little less than I paid for it, but a new one is $1,000 more.

  9. #8

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    IMNSHO cash is king. Preferably where you can get it if we see another depression a la the 1929 stock market crash. Assets are great (as a small part of the portfolio) if people have money to buy them but worthless if they don’t.

  10. #9

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    For investments, you need something that is easily and quickly sold. You may need the money in a hurry. With guitars, it may take weeks, months, or even years to find a buyer at a price you can accept. The market is fickle, and value changes quickly, both up and down. I would consider buying a guitar only in exceptional cases, where the price is unusually low and I could afford to just play it with no pressing need to resell it. I have done that once, but don't expect to be able to repeat it. For investments, ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) make more sense because they can be sold immediately. My portfolio, such as it is, is mostly in bonds and fixed-income funds, mostly US Government securities. I'm willing to give up the possibility of high return in order to avoid risk. At my age safety is more important than the possibility of high profits, which necessarily entails the possibility of high losses. Everyone's risk tolerance is different, so you have to decide how much risk you're willing to take, and on what basis. If you're younger, you can probably take on more risk, but I'm well into my 70s, and I'm risk-averse. I will probably continue to buy guitars, but only to play, not with the expectation of making any money from them.

  11. #10

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    Bonds.

  12. #11

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    Reading some of the responses here, I would like to clarify my position.

    If the question is: Which guitars might be a good investment, then I would say pre-CBS strats and teles. Probably Les Pauls as well.

    If the questions is: Are guitars (or other instruments) a good investment in general and how do they compare to other types of investment, then I don't even want to attempt to answer!

    I find it outright bizarre to give financial advice without understanding the personal situation of the person asking (apart from "don't rob a bank, don't participate in pyramid schemes").

  13. #12

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    I think there's going to be a housing crash so cash will be king for a while. Economics isn't my forte, psychology is. There's no culture, communities or suburbs in Las Vegas. It's not that kind of place. I don't want a 2-story house with no yard no matter how cheap it is. I'm not playing the real estate game.

    People in California and NYC are selling and moving to Las Vegas. They're having bidding wars on ugly houses and that's going to start a housing crash.
    In my humble opinion.

    It shouldn't be all that bad but people will react like the sky is falling. "Gloom, despair, and agony on me. Deep dark depression, excessive misery."

    Bonds and Martins sound good. Do NOT buy a house in Las Vegas right now. Rent. Get the lay of the land first. Wait for the crash.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    Done and done!see ya in 10 years.haha i think i will just do some home improvements.And research other equity/asset options.At my age though get quick rich skeemes are most attractive.lol uh rich quit, rich quack rich quick ahh there it is one of those.would do me fine.Dont tell the bride.
    Yes if you are young.

    Quick rich schemes = high risk investment.

    Regarding age, any financial advisor worth their salt would tell you high risk investments make more sense for someone young. If you lose all your money, being young, you still have plenty of time to recover.

  15. #14
    first of all i am a sarcastic sob(get rich quick).i get insight from everone.I think any advice is not advice as much just whats out there,what to consider and dont do any thing stupid.and of coarse humor.oh and concern that i might do something stupid ha ha thank you people.!!!!!

  16. #15

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    I think Christina Anstead is available now. Worth at least $12 million.

    Marrying her seems like a good investment right now.

    J-Lo might be available, but she's denying the rumors.

  17. #16

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    I went on Reverb after thinking about this discussion. It occurred to me, I'd rather have an original D'Angelico than Tesla stock, or even a Tesla car. The car is definitely going to lose half it's value, the stock might, too (or double, who knows?)- and I would be sad. But if the guitar lost half it's value- I still got to own and enjoy a D'Angelico.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JGinNJ
    I went on Reverb after thinking about this discussion. It occurred to me, I'd rather have an original D'Angelico than Tesla stock, or even a Tesla car. The car is definitely going to lose half it's value, the stock might, too (or double, who knows?)- and I would be sad. But if the guitar lost half it's value- I still got to own and enjoy a D'Angelico.
    If you bought a Tesla AND a D'Angelico you could drive yourself to your own gig, once those things start up again. And have a small carbon footprint!

  19. #18
    i think im seein some advice i will take seriously DrJeff hahaha

  20. #19
    oh yes i remember/forgot reading about water being a commodity now.hay i dated Plan B for a while.......so did everybody else

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    oh yes i remember/forgot reading about water being a commodity now.hay i dated Plan B for a while.......so did everybody else
    Ever work in a casino? They're dizzy from walking around in circles all the time. They want to stop moving for minute but the only people to talk to are degenerate gamblers. At the bar they can stop moving but bartenders and waitresses can't stand each other.
    They're complicated. Women in housekeeping are just tired. They say- my feet are throbbing. I want to go home. I was a porter so I was in housekeeping.

    Casinos suck.

  22. #21
    knowing me i would see them and just tip them every penny i got along with a kind word.and never make it to the slots.my wife handles $ im to dam empathetic or sympathetic or something.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarlBrother View Post
    knowing me i would see them and just tip them every penny i got along with a kind word.and never make it to the slots.my wife handles $ im to dam empathetic or sympathetic or something.
    One time I sat next to a women playing a slot machine. Gamblers like to talk to other gamblers sometimes. She was 30-ish. I usually talk to older women. She was betting very low. The waitress brings her drink. It looked like a double shot of hard liquor. She started fumbling for change in her pockets. Obvious problem with cross-addiction- alcohol and gambling. The waitress glares at her. The women says- I'm so embarrassed and ran off crying.
    I wanted to go get her but then tried to pay for her drink. The waitress ignored me, left the drink and walked away.
    So it's like that?
    She humiliated her and was a little rude to me.

    I'm nobody's groupie. Casino workers might be a bad investment.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-01-2021 at 04:38 PM.

  24. #23

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    @Stevebol: It's been a long time since I visited a casino in Tahoe/Reno but back in the day, the drinks were free, just to keep you gambling (and perhaps to cloud your judgment.) Do casinos now charge for drinks? Or is there a different standard for playing the slots as opposed to, say, craps or blackjack?

  25. #24

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    I go into casinos occasionally, in part cause my fiancee’s sister lives in Vegas and we go there to see shows. Or did when there were shows you could go to.

    Much as I want to enjoy them or at least find them interesting in an anthropological way, I find them full of sad characters. A lot of lost and directionless people.

    Also, when I try to gamble I can lose 100 dollars in 20 minutes, which takes the fun out of it quickly.

    Also nothing gets my allergic rhinitis going like cigarette smoke.

    I get the idea there is some secret to A) winning money gambling and B) enjoying the lifestyle.

    My ex-roommate retired from medicine a few years ago and divides his time between Scottsdale and Vegas. He is what you might call a semi-pro gambler. We went out to eat at the Bellagio—?Spago, not sure if that’s right—and the bill was rather hefty. When the check came, he wanted to pick it up, but I foolishly insisted we split it. After we left he said, “Well, I won $20K yesterday at poker, and I would have been glad to pick up the tab.”

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post

    I get the idea there is some secret to A) winning money gambling and B) enjoying the lifestyle.
    On can win at poker if you are really, really good at it (maybe blackjack also if you count cards, but that may get you banned). Maybe sports betting? Poker you're playing against other players with the house taking a cut, it's possible to win with skill, same can be said for sports betting.

    Other games, like slots, craps, roulette, the odds are against you, you can only rely on luck. (Some say there is skill in playing craps, hogwash, you can learn in 10 minutes how to play in manner where your chances are best, the odds are still against you). It's the long-run where the unfavorable odds are most likely to catch up to you. Best way to win, place a bet on red or black on the roulette table, one bet and then walk away forever. That way you have an almost 50-50 chance of beating the casino.

  27. #26

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    Speaking as one who has a sizable guitar collection (30 and growing), I can say with authority that only three of them have gone up in value despite the "collectibility" of several. Two of those only because I didn't pay anything for them! One was acquired in a trade and the other was given to me. The third is the only one that I see prices for that are twice what I paid. And then, these prices were the MSRP when it was new seven years ago.

    If buying and selling guitars was so profitable, Guitar Center wouldn't have declared bankruptcy. Several times.

  28. #27

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    Mixing your love and investing is a risk.... hard to think clearly about that L5. Easy to analyze a bond portfolio.

    if you want to see some “lost and directionless people” in casinos, ya gotta go to Atlantic City. Do they all wear t shirts with backwards baseball caps in Vegas?

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    I go into casinos occasionally, in part cause my fiancee’s sister lives in Vegas and we go there to see shows. Or did when there were shows you could go to.

    Much as I want to enjoy them or at least find them interesting in an anthropological way, I find them full of sad characters. A lot of lost and directionless people.

    Also, when I try to gamble I can lose 100 dollars in 20 minutes, which takes the fun out of it quickly.

    Also nothing gets my allergic rhinitis going like cigarette smoke.

    I get the idea there is some secret to A) winning money gambling and B) enjoying the lifestyle.

    My ex-roommate retired from medicine a few years ago and divides his time between Scottsdale and Vegas. He is what you might call a semi-pro gambler. We went out to eat at the Bellagio—?Spago, not sure if that’s right—and the bill was rather hefty. When the check came, he wanted to pick it up, but I foolishly insisted we split it. After we left he said, “Well, I won $20K yesterday at poker, and I would have been glad to pick up the tab.”
    There are non-smoking casinos now.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    I go into casinos occasionally, in part cause my fiancee’s sister lives in Vegas and we go there to see shows. Or did when there were shows you could go to.

    Much as I want to enjoy them or at least find them interesting in an anthropological way, I find them full of sad characters. A lot of lost and directionless people.

    Also, when I try to gamble I can lose 100 dollars in 20 minutes, which takes the fun out of it quickly.

    Also nothing gets my allergic rhinitis going like cigarette smoke.

    I get the idea there is some secret to A) winning money gambling and B) enjoying the lifestyle.

    My ex-roommate retired from medicine a few years ago and divides his time between Scottsdale and Vegas. He is what you might call a semi-pro gambler. We went out to eat at the Bellagio—?Spago, not sure if that’s right—and the bill was rather hefty. When the check came, he wanted to pick it up, but I foolishly insisted we split it. After we left he said, “Well, I won $20K yesterday at poker, and I would have been glad to pick up the tab.”
    My doctor thought I was crazy to take a casino porter job. So does a waitress I asked about jobs. I haven't talked to her again yet. I might. It takes 4 weeks to be trained. I lasted 5.
    Crazy or not, now I know casinos.

  31. #30

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    I really wanted a casino at some point. I didn't like the current casino's, so I checked some older, elite casino's. Hard to find, so I checked the 330. Finally bought the T64. Played better and sounded better than the 330.


  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    I was at the Orleans a while back. Waitresses were saying hello, asking if you want a drink. They never used to do that. My girlfriend works there. She's running for mayor. We broke up. She told everyone I was still looking for a job. I'm going to cheat on her.
    I'm kidding. She's not my gf but she is running for mayor.

    "And the waitress is practicing politics"
    They make good politicians. We like Jackie Rosen here.

    People stopped gambling in gas stations and Raiders fans mess with the clerks. Must be a California thing.

    Vegas isn't so bad. Things are looking up. I'm going to stop being anti-social.

    I didn't think I was going to be around much longer a couple years. I was setting records at the Orleans and Gold Coast for consecutive hours gambling. I learned how to gamble. It's overrated.

    I recommend casinos on the strip. If you want to venture out there are new casinos. There's the Red Rock, South Point. The Orleans is a little grungy but I like it.
    Most people aren't driving but if you are go straight west on Charleston around the loop. It's a nice drive. Also there's Cold Creek. It's about 45 minutes away. There are a lot of wild horses and deer walking around.
    you seriously need to write that book. your posts are often miniature road movies.

  33. #32

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    "You go to Lost Wages, Lost Wages,
    You go to Lost Wages..."

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I go into casinos occasionally, in part cause my fiancee’s sister lives in Vegas and we go there to see shows. Or did when there were shows you could go to.

    Much as I want to enjoy them or at least find them interesting in an anthropological way, I find them full of sad characters. A lot of lost and directionless people.

    Also, when I try to gamble I can lose 100 dollars in 20 minutes, which takes the fun out of it quickly.

    Also nothing gets my allergic rhinitis going like cigarette smoke.

    I get the idea there is some secret to A) winning money gambling and B) enjoying the lifestyle.

    My ex-roommate retired from medicine a few years ago and divides his time between Scottsdale and Vegas. He is what you might call a semi-pro gambler. We went out to eat at the Bellagio—?Spago, not sure if that’s right—and the bill was rather hefty. When the check came, he wanted to pick it up, but I foolishly insisted we split it. After we left he said, “Well, I won $20K yesterday at poker, and I would have been glad to pick up the tab.”
    You're making me feel guilty. Don't listen to any 'semi-pro'. They're all going to lie about how much they lose overall.
    How long do you want to gamble and what's your budget? I can only help with video poker and arcade slots.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    you seriously need to write that book. your posts are often miniature road movies.
    I'm waiting for the movie to come out. Trying to decide if DiCaprio or McConnauhey would be better in the lead role.

  36. #35

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    Depp, surely. He plays guitar, has played HST in Vegas, would do a fine SB.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74 View Post
    Depp, surely. He plays guitar, has played HST in Vegas, would do a fine SB.
    I'll stop being such an attention whore. I'd been trying for while to decide whether to stay or go. I'm staying in Las Vegas. Getting out of here once in a while and seeing something that resembles nature is a big thing.
    A friend here was an expat for a number of years in Mexico. He spent over 40 years in California. He's been around.
    I think we'll hit Huntington Beach soon.

    This Covid-fatigue sucks.

  38. #37
    Thinki will just restore the Les Paul.and finish the basement.thats my assets investment.Your blowin a hole in the 'What you do in Vegas stays in Vages'.LOL Yet still a good read.djg is on to something there.As far as metals as an asset.I got about 800 lbs of scrap metal laying here.So i may be better than i think.But keep the dialog going.dont know why but its got a therapy quality to it.

  39. #38

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    I've been doing some real world research on monetizing guitars in what seems to be a seller's market. I've avoided ebay, reverb, facebook, or craigslist, because I'd want to avoid packing & shipping, unhappy buyers, weirdos & murderers. I had a couple of private buyers interested in a Martin dread, but both bailed out at the last minute for reasons unrelated to the guitar. This after lots of communication and detailed pictures.
    I talked to 3+ stores about consignment. All wanted at least 25%, or a $400 minimum, and I was low-balled on valuations a couple of times, too. I decided for the money I'd net, I might as well keep the guitars. Forget about profit, if I wanted to just break even, I'd have to sell privately (no auctions fees, etc.).

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    @Stevebol: It's been a long time since I visited a casino in Tahoe/Reno but back in the day, the drinks were free, just to keep you gambling (and perhaps to cloud your judgment.) Do casinos now charge for drinks? Or is there a different standard for playing the slots as opposed to, say, craps or blackjack?
    Ask each casino. I only asked one time. It was the Tropicana not long after I moved here. Drinks were free there.
    I better ask at the place I go to. I should also mention I got an interview there for a job and they didn't hire me.

    My guess is, 2-5 dollars is an appropriate tip.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-09-2021 at 01:33 AM.

  41. #40

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    I like real estate better than stocks and bonds because it is under my control, but I admit that stocks and bonds have performed better than real estate over the last 100 years. Stocks and bonds mostly do not give you the superb tax advantages that real estate does. It is all about what you are comfortable with. In my law practice days, I had clients with net worths in the hundreds of million dollars range. Most owned a lot of real estate. I took good notes and learned from the best. I have a net worth today in the top five percent of the USA (I am too lazy to have become part of the one percent and never gotten any seed money from my family. My parents were not college graduates and I am completely self made). I do not own a single stock or bond.

    Guitars? Certainly more fun to own than stocks, bonds or real estate and the right guitars keep pace with or exceed inflation if you buy them right (buying new is generally not buying right). I have quite a few guitars, but they make up less than 5% of my net worth. I certainly would not advise guitars as an investment, but I would advise treating them as an investment nonetheless.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I like real estate better than stocks and bonds because it is under my control, but I admit that stocks and bonds have performed better than real estate over the last 100 years. Stocks and bonds mostly do not give you the superb tax advantages that real estate does. It is all about what you are comfortable with. In my law practice days, I had clients with net worths in the hundreds of million dollars range. Most owned a lot of real estate. I took good notes and learned from the best. I have a net worth today in the top five percent of the USA (I am too lazy to have become part of the one percent and never gotten any seed money from my family. My parents were not college graduates and I am completely self made). I do not own a single stock or bond.

    Guitars? Certainly more fun to own than stocks, bonds or real estate and the right guitars keep pace with or exceed inflation if you buy them right (buying new is generally not buying right). I have quite a few guitars, but they make up less than 5% of my net worth. I certainly would not advise guitars as an investment, but I would advise treating them as an investment nonetheless.
    The big thing where I live is land. It's expensive. Pack the workers into monopoly houses with no yards. This is the desert not Mars but that's the way it is. Work in the casino and go home to your dormitory. Prices are going up fast here.

  43. #42

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    Maybe it depends on what/when you're buying/selling. In around 2013(?) we offered full cash for our early 50s suburbia retro ranch, and they jumped at it over other higher offers. I don't profess to be a finance whiz at all, I just know what happened, and I still sorta don't get it. But I'm sure glad it happened. Broke us at the time, but we're back in biz now for being debt free.

    The real estate agent said at the time, "cash is always king."

  44. #43

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    "The real estate agent said at the time, "cash is always king." Woodysound


    Hi, W,
    In runaway inflation, would you rather have cash or property?
    Play live . . . Marinero




  45. #44

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    Let's get you started:

    The Birth of 'The Boss' Bruce Springsteen - 1965 Martin D-35 | Lot #85156 | Heritage Auctions

    What? Don't care for the crack, don't care about the provenance? Here's a lovely example of a '37 D-28:

    1937 Martin D-28 Natural Acoustic Guitar, Serial #65573.. ... | Lot #85008 | Heritage Auctions

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    The big thing where I live is land. It's expensive. Pack the workers into monopoly houses with no yards. This is the desert not Mars but that's the way it is. Work in the casino and go home to your dormitory. Prices are going up fast here.
    Is the housing subsidized or paid for, like in Aspen**?


    ** At least that's what our chaffuer told us. He was living rent free as long as he was running his limo business. Reasons being; (1) Aspen is a remote destination (like Vegas?), (2) it needs service workers, and (3) real estate prices are untouchable for most people.

  47. #46

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    I would say Real Estate for sure Stringswinger has this nailed down. In fact I believe Bill Gates owns the most real estate by a private person. Guitars are nothing at all to invest in. The only they ever did for me was I did not spend the money on other items. I have never owned any stocks or bonds as such but then again I am cleric and we don't get into that for money.

    The one thing I can say is I bought my first great archtop guitar on January 30th 1979 at age 17 a Barker guitar that Bill Barker helped me find. It was used but a true beauty and I still own it today. Then a year later at 18 I bought my first D'angelico guitar a 1953 Excel Blond non-cutaway. Since that time I have been blessed to never been without at least one D'angelico to play in the house. At one time I have 5 to choose from but pared it to 2 now. Although I am looking for one? Not for an investment. In my small world much more enjoyable than a stock or bond.

    Assets are good for sure, cash has it magic at certain times but in the end I don't think Saint Peter opens the gate with the key based on net worth.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donplaysguitar View Post
    Is the housing subsidized or paid for, like in Aspen**?


    ** At least that's what our chaffuer told us. He was living rent free as long as he was running his limo business. Reasons being; (1) Aspen is a remote destination (like Vegas?), (2) it needs service workers, and (3) real estate prices are untouchable for most people.
    I don't know.

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I like real estate better than stocks and bonds because it is under my control, but I admit that stocks and bonds have performed better than real estate over the last 100 years. Stocks and bonds mostly do not give you the superb tax advantages that real estate does. It is all about what you are comfortable with. In my law practice days, I had clients with net worths in the hundreds of million dollars range. Most owned a lot of real estate. I took good notes and learned from the best. I have a net worth today in the top five percent of the USA (I am too lazy to have become part of the one percent and never gotten any seed money from my family. My parents were not college graduates and I am completely self made). I do not own a single stock or bond.

    Guitars? Certainly more fun to own than stocks, bonds or real estate and the right guitars keep pace with or exceed inflation if you buy them right (buying new is generally not buying right). I have quite a few guitars, but they make up less than 5% of my net worth. I certainly would not advise guitars as an investment, but I would advise treating them as an investment nonetheless.
    You know it's all hustle in California. You have to deal with the reactionaries and virtue signaling. I don't know how you can stand it.
    Patrisse Cullors did well for herself. She went on a real estate binge. Good for her.

    It's all quiet on the eastern front. Gas station clerks in Las Vegas haven't shot any Raider fans yet.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    You know it's all hustle in California. You have to deal with the reactionaries and virtue signaling. I don't know how you can stand it.
    Patrisse Cullors did well for herself. She went on a real estate binge. Good for her.

    It's all quiet on the eastern front. Gas station clerks in Las Vegas haven't shot any Raider fans yet.
    California is far from uniform. There are a lot of differences between the different parts of the State (I feel like the California that you refer to in your posts here, is LA (or "smell-A" as we Northern Californians call it ). That said, the "virtue signalers" seem to be in charge Statewide while the reactionaries (who haven't moved to Nevada or Arizona) make fools of themselves. And that has made California a mess. Without competition and compromise, mankind almost always sinks into the abyss of mediocrity.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    California is far from uniform. There are a lot of differences between the different parts of the State (I feel like the California that you refer to in your posts here, is LA (or "smell-A" as we Northern Californians call it ). That said, the "virtue signalers" seem to be in charge Statewide while the reactionaries (who haven't moved to Nevada or Arizona) make fools of themselves. And that has made California a mess. Without competition and compromise, mankind almost always sinks into the abyss of mediocrity.
    Well casinos and developers have it all worked out where I live. Go to your job at the moon base casino then go home to your dormitory with no yard. Wash rinse repeat.