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  1. #51

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    Ronjazz and Marinero's posts are so good because they talk from experience. We learn by doing and we do better when in skilled company. It's a fact.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Post #46 by RonJazz is one of the best descriptions of the "pathway" I've read. It "is" the process and sadly it is being lost in numerous ways by our culture and our times.
    I agree completely, playing with someone who is better then you is the best way to learn. This just doesn't apply to music but i guess to almost most things in life.
    Can you explain how this is lost by our culture? I guess covid surely has made it more difficult to play together the last year but that will pass.
    So how did our culture change the pathway and when did that change occur?

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by waltf
    I agree completely, playing with someone who is better then you is the best way to learn. This just doesn't apply to music but i guess to almost most things in life.
    Can you explain how this is lost by our culture? I guess covid surely has made it more difficult to play together the last year but that will pass.
    So how did our culture change the pathway and when did that change occur?
    Hi, W,
    Simply: Covid(hopefully temporary but having the least long-term effect) and, most importantly, the lack of interest in Jazz music by the general public resulting in the inability of musicians(excluding a very small, fortunate few) to make a living playing Jazz. Following the end of America's Great Depression, which likely ended in 1939 ,according to most economists/historians, a musician could make a decent full-time living playing music across genres. This was still the Age of Big Bands, small Jazz combos, and pop groups that ultimately died in the late 70's early 80's with the popularity of Disco/recorded music played in Clubs. That's when I got out of full-time music and saw the writing on the wall when 5 night gigs, locally and on the road, became one-night stands on the weekend or disappeared. Also, club owners were unwilling to pay a fair price for a gig when canned music was more cost effective. So, when you figured your travel time, set-up and 3 shows, you were making below minimum wage for your talents. What's the point?
    As I have said in other posts, Jazz lost its audience when it left the dance halls and went into the concert room and today, only a fortunate few can make a full-time living playing Jazz. It is an esoteric music form that appeals to a very select few(less than 1.4% of the US population). I think the popularity of Rap/Hip Hop Music and the billions of dollars it generates for producers worldwide perhaps tells the story where the dollars are flowing in the music industry and how contemporary culture has morphed.
    I hope this answers your question.
    Play live . . . Marinero

    P.S. As an afterthought, perhaps the greatest hope for Jazz resides in Gypsy Jazz Music where standards are played and people can still dance to the music. Only time will tell. M

  5. #54

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    Absolutely. Covid apart, I don't think live music is what it's cracked up to be any more. If it's not karaoke or pop music the opportunities are slim. Jazz clubs still exist, so do Sunday lunch pub gigs, and the odd restaurant still likes unobtrusive background jazz guitar/vocal.

    Apart from that it's all commercial venues but it's rarely jazz and they're not happening because of lockdown anyway. So unless you're John Scofield you're buggered... and even he's sitting at home these days.

    But things go round and round. It could all change, who knows? Or fade away altogether, of course, and be replaced by something else.

    (To be quite honest, I think this place is an absolute boon. Different tunes all the time and a critical audience... beats trying to scrabble around for peanuts out there, that's for sure. Only a part of me misses the buzz of a live gig).

  6. #55

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    Thank you for the explanation. Yes the world changed. I think it would have helped if your opening post was more clear that you were talking about there not being unique voices in what you call 'straigh ahead jazz'.
    Now it just looked like you were talking about new(er) players in general.
    There might be hope, guitar sales boomed during covid, there's a 10-18week waiting time for many fender models. A lot of people started playing.
    My girlfriend showed me a clip from the voice belgium and apperently lots of them are doing 'jazzy' versions of pop songs.
    Here's a belgian 19 year old who taught himself how to play piano, started 2 years ago, doing his version of a song by that famous 19 year old with her unique voice
    You probably won't like it but maybe it's a sign the future is brighter then you think for jazz


  7. #56

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    There's a bit in there that sounds like 'Hallelujah'.

  8. #57
    So, getting back to Billie's original quote--I have a friend who is a very accomplished CG. Early in his career as a young phenom, he played at Carnegie Hall but in the succeeding years to present, his concert schedule has been very limited. He is ,without question, the best technical player I've ever heard and has a command of the CG repertoire second to none. However, when he plays, although one is left with a perfect performance of the piece as written, there is no personal voice. So, one might ask: can a person devote a lifetime to Music and reach the highest levels of performance and still never find a voice? The answer is yes. And, I am convinced that it is purely genetics since we see it readily in much less advanced players who have something "special" but have not, as of yet, achieved technical mastery. So, do musicians make too much of a "voice?" And, I use this term not in a literal but a figurative sense(ie; yes, everyone has a "voice" based on their level of musical progress but we are referring to "voice" as something that puts your unique trademark on music as we know with Billie Holiday, Tony Bennett, Johnny Hartman, Ella, etc.) Is there another perspective?
    Play live . . . Marinero

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    I have a friend [...] However, when he plays, although one is left with a perfect performance of the piece as written, there is no personal voice.

    Cool .. So apart from establish beloved players like Sco and Metheny and newcomers like Elenora Strino ... You also dislike the playing of your friends

    There is so much warmth in all of your comments



    Have you told him that he sucks despite having played Carnegie Hall?

  10. #59

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    Tough crowd

  11. #60
    "Apart from that it's all commercial venues but it's rarely jazz and they're not happening because of lockdown anyway. So unless you're Scofield you're buggered... and even he's sitting at home these days." Ragman


    Hi, R,
    Aside from Covid ,which has considerably weakened the live music scene, the performance opportunities for Jazzers is getting worse every year. And, this is compounded by desperate musicians who are willing to play for free just to be heard. And, I suppose their faulty reasoning is that if you're not being heard by an audience, you'll never get a good gig--of course, this is a classic example of circular reasoning and does more to harm "Working" musicians than these desperate musicians realize. And, with the pathetic listenership of Jazz music(1.4%), they are only digging a deeper hole for the few who are scrambling for paid gigs. Yes, few have the name of Scofield and few can fill an auditorium let alone a small club with Jazz as the draw. This is why, professionally, I play(solo) exclusively Classical/Bossa on gigs with a few Jazz tunes interspersed in my sets but I know they wouldn't pay for an all Jazz program because the interest is not there--especially improvisational Jazz. And . . . the beat goes on . . .
    Play live . . . Marinero

  12. #61

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