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  1. #1
    Yesterday I was listening Art Blakey's Oh by the way, I love The jazz messengers.

    But I would like something more experimental.

    I know Coltrane could fit on that description, but... someone elese ? Also already heard everything of Mingus.

    Preferly minor tunnings. Dark tunnings.

    Not something like Miles Davis, and no effects (at least in the 70s 80s fashion ). Something with a classic resemble , but with more modern melodies, and not standard tunnings. Not Metheny.

    Also not "avant garde", or "free jazz", and full of disonances.

    I know this is such an abstract and wide question, but let see if someone catchs my vibe.

    As example of something I dont want is the tune Duck soup in the Oh by they way album.

    Also, not "rap/trap", or R&B/soul.
    Last edited by man-argentina; 01-06-2021 at 04:13 PM.

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  3. #2

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  4. #3

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    OP makes me think of early/mid sixties blue note Joe Henderson. Maybe because I've been digging it and learning this one. Interesting to hear Elvin and McCoy just before Love Supreme.


  5. #4

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    Probably a lot of the Blue Note 60s stuff in a minor key would fit the bill, such as this:


  6. #5

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    and a lot of Bobbie Hutherson from the same era. Speaking of him, also the well known:


  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    OP makes me think of early/mid sixties blue note Joe Henderson. Maybe because I've been digging it and learning this one. Interesting to hear Elvin and McCoy just before Love Supreme.

    Thanks, I really like this style (specially the second tune), but, still sounds too "classic" for me.

    I mean, its a modern aproach to what jazz, bebop, was, but Im looking something even more modern.

    Really dont want to be too picky and annoying, just chatting .

    Gonna check the full albums of those tunes.

    Eric Dolphy, its great, but still "classic jazz" for me. Always remember I read Miles Davis saying his music was too sad.

  8. #7

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    I know what you mean ManA. I'm an old guy and have been listening to these cuts for over 50 years. I think that makes it 'classic' right there.

    Maybe what you want isn't here yet. You might have to invent 'ancient modern' yourself :)

    What do you have to say about Robert Glasper?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by man-argentina
    But I would like something more experimental.

    I know Coltrane could fit on that description, but... someone elese ? Also already heard everything of Mingus.

    Preferly minor tunnings. Dark tunnings.

    Not something like Miles Davis, and no effects (at least in the 70s 80s fashion ). Something with a classic resemble , but with more modern melodies, and not standard tunnings. Not Metheny.

    Also not "avant garde", or "free jazz", and full of disonances.

    .
    Yeah, @ccroft may be right -- you may have to come up with this genre yourself, since these are tricky (if not paradoxical) qualities!

    Mike Baggetta's music (and this is just one video -- check out his albums!) meets some of your criteria:


  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    I know what you mean ManA. I'm an old guy and have been listening to these cuts for over 50 years. I think that makes it 'classic' right there.

    Maybe what you want isn't here yet. You might have to invent 'ancient modern' yourself

    What do you have to say about Robert Glasper?
    Havent listened Robert Glasper yet, so thats what Im going to do right now !

    U know, even if jazz been my latest love (been listenig ton of jazz since last 2 years) sometimes Im tired or the "jazz sound", the play is great, the skills are great, but... always sound like jazz, and that tires me a bit.

    And I think those great jazz players could play something more dofferent.

    And yeap, easy to talk, should I do it myself .

  11. #10

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    Have you heard Bitches Brew by Miles Davis? He took things in a different direction with that.


  12. #11

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    Also In A Silent Way:


  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Have you heard Bitches Brew by Miles Davis? He took things in a different direction with that.
    Excellent stuff, but the OP said, "No Miles."


  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    Excellent stuff, but the OP said, "No Miles."

    Sure, but he wants jazz that doesn’t sound like jazz, and is a bit more experimental, but isn’t avant-garde, isn’t Coltrane, isn’t later Blue Note because that still sounds too much like jazz. Sounds a bit like he doesn’t want it to have a swing rhythm maybe.

    Doesn’t leave much, and the only thing I can think of is Miles late 60s/early 70s stuff. As he’s only been listening for 2 years maybe he hasn’t heard all of Miles’ output.

    By the way the tune he gave as an example of what he doesn’t want to hear is Duck Soup by Art Blakey, which is just a very conventional sounding neo-bebop type tune, so that doesn’t really help much.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Sure, but he wants jazz that doesn’t sound like jazz, and is a bit more experimental, but isn’t avant-garde, isn’t Coltrane, isn’t later Blue Note because that still sounds too much like jazz. Sounds a bit like he doesn’t want it to have a swing rhythm maybe.

    Doesn’t leave much, and the only thing I can think of is Miles late 60s/early 70s stuff. As he’s only been listening for 2 years maybe he hasn’t heard all of Miles’ output.

    By the way the tune he gave as an example of what he doesn’t want to hear is Duck Soup by Art Blakey, which is just a very conventional sounding neo-bebop type tune, so that doesn’t really help much.



    I know, that's why I think he's going to have a tough time with this one ... Not black, but not white; experimentally melodic, but not free; etc.

  16. #15

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    Perhaps you might like the Gary Burton Quartet (contains Metheny).


  17. #16

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    EST (Esbjörn Svensson Trio) was lauded for sounding ”fresh”. It’s very consonant music maybe a bit in the Philip Glass direction.

    Wayne Krantz does some pretty interesting stuff.

    Mark Giuliana (drummer on Bowie’s Blackstar album) mixes modern beats with jazz in a way that actually works. He does jazz covers of electronica like Autechre. And if you haven’t, check out Autechre - if Coltrane were a synth programmer it might sound like that.

  18. #17

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    Speaking of Mark Guiliana, the Donny McCaslin quartet (the blackstar band) might be your thing.

    or maybe not!

    Who knows haha

  19. #18

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    The Necks.


  20. #19

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    Please could someone suggest for me some Mongolian nose flute music which is not played by Mongolians, is not played through the nose, does not involve a flute, and is not musical.

    It’s my favourite music, but I have been listening to it for 2 hours and I am getting a bit bored with it.

  21. #20

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    Eh, I’ll repost this and see if it pleases the OP’s jaded palette


  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    The Necks.

    I need to listen to more Necks. I was introduced to them by a left wing podcast that informed me that this is what Marxism sounds like. Not sure about that, but a very original band: I do like free improv that doesn’t sound like free improv.

  23. #22

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    Hell, buy my album
    https://balagancafeband.bandcamp.com/releases

    progressive string trio jazz. Critically acclaimed don’t cha know
    Balagan Cafe Band: Balagan Cafe Band album review @ All About Jazz

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Eh, I’ll repost this and see if it pleases the OP’s jaded palette

    Thanks for that - my kind of shirt, great tune & even an old ship in the background.

    If i'm being picky a shirt that loud should have long sleeves.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Please could someone suggest for me some Mongolian nose flute music which is not played by Mongolians, is not played through the nose, does not involve a flute, and is not musical.

    It’s my favourite music, but I have been listening to it for 2 hours and I am getting a bit bored with it.

    ......... - " and on horseback, but recorded in a yurt. "......

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    ......... - " and on horseback, but recorded in a yurt. "......
    My trio are working on it, the logistics are proving a little tricky.

    There is a more experimental jazz ?-74c495d2-6757-4c71-8202-98aec643920b-jpeg

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Speaking of Mark Guiliana, the Donny McCaslin quartet (the blackstar band) might be your thing.

    or maybe not!

    Who knows haha
    Yeah that whole gang in various constellations are worth a listen. Speaking of which, not a Bowie fan in general (I was listening to Kraftwerk when Let’s Dance came out) but that Blackstar album is something else... listened through it just now, lots of interesting stuff going on.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhond
    Yeah that whole gang in various constellations are worth a listen. Speaking of which, not a Bowie fan in general (I was listening to Kraftwerk when Let’s Dance came out) but that Blackstar album is something else... listened through it just now, lots of interesting stuff going on.
    bowie was unique and morphed himself into different characters during his career.

    just a note: Lets Dance,,Stevie Ray Vaughn on guitar (and several other cuts "china doll" IIRC

    Blackstar: Ben Monder on guitar

    -

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by man-argentina
    Yesterday I was listening Art Blakey's Oh by the way, I love The jazz messengers.

    But I would like something more experimental.

    I know Coltrane could fit on that description, but... someone elese ? Also already heard everything of Mingus.

    Preferly minor tunnings. Dark tunnings.

    Not something like Miles Davis, and no effects (at least in the 70s 80s fashion ). Something with a classic resemble , but with more modern melodies, and not standard tunnings. Not Metheny.

    Also not "avant garde", or "free jazz", and full of disonances.

    I know this is such an abstract and wide question, but let see if someone catchs my vibe.

    As example of something I dont want is the tune Duck soup in the Oh by they way album.


    this is a common question.."what is jazz ?"

    take it away from record/music industry marketing departments and the definition is in constant flux .. changing every aspect on a constant basis..

    my take on what may fit your request:

    Ben Monder
    Herbie Hancock..Maiden voyage/Dolphin Dance
    Gary Burton with Larry Coryell
    Layfette Gilchrist..keyboard experiments?
    Carla Bley-compositions ..with Steve Swallow
    Miles Davis....because he has changed the definition of jazz.more than once...with Bill Evans..Kind of Blue..flamenco sketches..
    Mike Bloomfield/Paul Butterfield (East/West)
    Chick Corea..Spain..progressive Flemenco? Jazz fusion..?
    John Scofield
    John McLaughlin

    and hundreds (thousands) more..with or without public/media exposure.. that could be considered "experimental"

    I think on the above list these musicians took many chances (experiments) in their work..many of which were a breakaway from the term "jazz"

    a paradox..perhaps...But..if the 1920's New Orleans sound was/is jazz..Can Bitches Brew also be jazz..if so..all definitions of jazz are void..that is..useless..
    perhaps a new "label" needs to be used..but then..it would be just as inaccurate as the current term

    much like asking---what is "baseball" and having "rollerball" or better yet.."professional wrestling" included in the definition.

  30. #29

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    Lots of great advice (I dig the nose flute) but to get bachk to the OP who hopefully hasnöt yet lost faith in mankind:


    If vintage Blakey isn’t experimental enough, listen to his 80‘s bands, might just fit the bill. Or Sonny Rollins. Scofield’s recordings from the 80s and 90s. That stuff is called „modern mainstream“ and there is more than enough out there. I‘m just listing some masters.

    Sounds like jazz, though.


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  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    I dig the nose flute

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I was wondering why a RRK nose flute reference took so long ! : )

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    I was wondering why a RRK nose flute reference took so long ! : )
    and..lets not forget ..Frank Zappa.."Played" a bicycle...

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    and..lets not forget ..Frank Zappa.."Played" a bicycle...
    ....I like how he seemed to pronounce it a bi-cycle......


  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    ....I like how he seemed to pronounce it a bi-cycle......

    in the section where the "band" joins in...if you listen closely you can hear..suzie creamcheese say..."...Forget It !!! "

  36. #35

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    You want Tomasz Stanko's "Suspended Night" or "Lontano."

  37. #36
    Many new responsed to my topic.

    Thanks guys. I know Im very picky.

    Gonna check ur responses.

  38. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Please could someone suggest for me some Mongolian nose flute music which is not played by Mongolians, is not played through the nose, does not involve a flute, and is not musical.

    It’s my favourite music, but I have been listening to it for 2 hours and I am getting a bit bored with it.
    ????

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by man-argentina
    ????
    sorry, just a little joke...after several attempts to meet your repeated and somewhat difficult requests!

  40. #39

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  41. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    sorry, just a little joke...after several attempts to meet your repeated and somewhat difficult requests!
    Its ok, if u read my first post I kinda apologize in advance, and knew I was going to incite some mockery.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by man-argentina
    Its ok, if u read my first post I kinda apologize in advance, and knew I was going to incite some mockery.

    Sorry, nothing mean-spirited intended....

    I saw a mention of Carla Bley and Steve Swallow ( Wolf ? )

    I'd also check out Paul Bley......' Scorpio ' and others..............


  43. #42

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    Back in the day, the Naxos label put out some interesting jazz stuff and I bought a few of them, this is one I like:


  44. #43

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    Another one, the UMO jazz orchestra from Finland:


  45. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Eh, I’ll repost this and see if it pleases the OP’s jaded palette

    Not my cup of tea.

  46. #45

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    Some moody blues:


  47. #46

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    Cutting edge music; ahead of its time.

    There is a more experimental jazz ?-248c4344-a341-447d-8d7e-1a4a3d8f3c5e-jpeg

  48. #47

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  49. #48

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  50. #49

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    "Mongolian nose flute music". Did not go unnoticed. Pure frickin' genius.

  51. #50

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    Anthony Braxton? Some really interesting stuff to be had there. Just my opinion.