The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Some time ago, Reg generously shared 3 top-notch original jazz tracks, (post #260 in the below linked thread), which received a total of 3 likes and 1 reply (mine). I would really recommend checking them out by the way if they, ahem, flew under your radar at the time.
    Our Own Compositions. Post them here!

    Conversely, and just by way of example, a recent post of some (competently played) home recorded country guitar garnered some 20 replies and numerous likes, in no time at all.

    So, down to the nitty-gritty:

    There are tomes here dedicated to gear and how to achieve the perfect jazz guitar sound and reams written on jazz theory, (as well as a ton of renditions of tired, even if golden, old standards), yet quality original jazz, fruit of good gear and command of harmony etc, for the most part falls on deaf ears. Why is that?

    I'm directing this question at knowledgeable folk who have been around here for some time.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Competent...I've been called worse

    I think I get a lot of replies because I've been around here forever, and I comment a lot on other people's stuff (should try to do more, note to self)

    I think the original composition thread is probably a little tough to navigate at this point.. I think people tend to always comment more on a single thread versus one that has examples from a lot of people.

    Lastly, I think Reg's playing and composing is at a really high level, and there's probably plenty of people who feel they don't have much to say about it. Original music in general always seems to get less traction in music forums...not really sure why...I have my hunches. People dig familiarity.

  4. #3

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    You get alot of replies because your one of the good guys...

    Yes...the Beatles..early works were fairly simple melodies and stories..their later work required the listener to "work" a bit more to get into the songs..

    same can be said of any genre..and of course there are many exceptions...Kind of Blue comes to mind...its a breakaway from tradition..but very compelling ..its a paradox..its new but you have heard it before

    In essence...most would vote "like" if the post has something that "clicks" right away...considering how much information one wants/needs to digest in a given day..time becomes very valuable..and not many may
    dwell on something very long to see/hear if they like it or not...."country music" is for the most part easy and relaxing stories with a punch line built in..its a quick "like" not alot of thinking about it

  5. #4
    joelf Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Some time ago, Reg generously shared 3 top-notch original jazz tracks...
    I tried listen to his tracks, but the files wouldn't open.

    Maybe that was part of the problem?

  6. #5

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    Yes Jeff, I would definitely say that you have skills as a country player. As for the genre itself, it's a handy weapon against invading Martians, facetiousness aside.

    The composition thread you mention shows a total of over 50k views and get this: I chose to post a rough and ready original chord melody one time on a separate thread, which got several mostly favourable replies, but was deleted by admin in a "monthly clean-up". More recently I posted, also on a separate thread, a demo of an original tune which got two quick responses but when I saw another 100+ views with no more feedback, I got creeped out and removed the file.

    I wonder what Reg would have to say about people not reviewing his stuff because the quality is "a given".


    Neato, I don't know if regulars get so much feedback on their tunes.... and how many times have you heard that Jim Hall album, fercrissakes?


    I don't have much to contribute regarding country music. Emmylou Harris was pretty.


    Joelf, just to help you out, you should get a browser dialogue asking if you want to open the file with, eg, Groove Music. Otherwise, just download the files and play them on your native player. It's worth it, believe me.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Some time ago, Reg generously shared 3 top-notch original jazz tracks, (post #260 in the below linked thread), which received a total of 3 likes and 1 reply (mine). I would really recommend checking them out by the way if they, ahem, flew under your radar at the time.
    Our Own Compositions. Post them here!

    Conversely, and just by way of example, a recent post of some (competently played) home recorded country guitar garnered some 20 replies and numerous likes, in no time at all.

    So, down to the nitty-gritty:

    There are tomes here dedicated to gear and how to achieve the perfect jazz guitar sound and reams written on jazz theory, (as well as a ton of renditions of tired, even if golden, old standards), yet quality original jazz, fruit of good gear and command of harmony etc, for the most part falls on deaf ears. Why is that?

    I'm directing this question at knowledgeable folk who have been around here for some time.
    A good many of us here are beginning/intermediate players who WANT to learn the classic (you call them "tired") standards. We post where we are at the point of our musical growth as a way to solicit constructive critique and advice from the more capable players here, and we also post to encourage others of modest accomplishments to go ahead and post. Our forebears only got better by putting their mediocre chops out there in front of people and getting advice, and improving. This forum is such a place.

    This is not just a place where cutting edge original performance happens. It's a community of people with different levels of accomplishment all enjoying conversation about every element of this music, as well as playing for each other for various reasons (such as I describe above).

    It's no skin off your nose if a Texas swing type piece gets 10,000 likes and 1000 comments. Why do you care? Ignore it. Post your own stuff. Post your original, brilliant, cutting edge performances. See who enjoys it, who reacts to it. That's part of the charm of this forum.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Yes Jeff, I would definitely say that you have skills as a country player. As for the genre itself, it's a handy weapon against invading Martians, facetiousness aside.

    The composition thread you mention shows a total of over 50k views and get this: I chose to post a rough and ready original chord melody one time on a separate thread, which got several mostly favourable replies, but was deleted by admin in a "monthly clean-up". More recently I posted, also on a separate thread, a demo of an original tune which got two quick responses but when I saw another 100+ views with no more feedback, I got creeped out and removed the file.

    I wonder what Reg would have to say about people not reviewing his stuff because the quality is "a given".


    Neato, I don't know if regulars get so much feedback on their tunes.... and how many times have you heard that Jim Hall album, fercrissakes?


    I don't have much to contribute regarding country music. Emmylou Harris was pretty.


    Joelf, just to help you out, you should get a browser dialogue asking if you want to open the file with, eg, Groove Music. Otherwise, just download the files and play them on your native player. It's worth it, believe me.
    Sometimes people listen/view but don't comment simply because the music didn't speak to them, didn't elicit a response. I find if I view a clip that really grabs me, I can't help but reply somehow. So no response is sometimes actually a kind of response. The clip didn't inspire anyone to say anything. That's neither bad nor good. It might mean the wrong people watched it. It might mean we are all a bunch of low-life Philistines. It might also mean that the poster didn't have as much to say as he thought. I've posted stuff here that got a pretty... diminished... response. Turns out people didn't particularly want to track my progress on "Donna Lee" measure by measure. Okay, that's fine. Maybe your clips didn't get a response because they didn't stir people up to say anything. Or maybe you need to invest in commenting on others' playing, making a contribution, before expecting the same.

    Lots of ideas to ponder.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    You get a lot of replies because your one of the good guys...
    I would agree with that! I find myself clicking on Mr. Beaumont's posts because they usually contain a combination of skill, humor, and humility. And yes, playing children which reminds me to pay more attention to my family. All good as far as I'm concerned.

  10. #9

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    (edit: this is a reply to a since deleted post)

    I'm listening to you. More dismay than anger on my part, initially and especially in regard to Reg's output. As I said, I was being facetious about country music, though maintain that it is far removed from jazz.

    My playlists contain Björk, Dionne Warwick, Lyle Lovett*, System of a Down, Bill Evans, Ry Cooder, Michael Tippett, Joni Mitchell, Gilad Hekselman, Tuba Skinny, Los Lobos, J.S. Bach, Pat Metheny, Beach Boys, Wes Montgomery, Coltrane, and a long etc. No time for country so far, however. School me, always willing to discover something new and surprising.

    Cheers

    *I suppose Lyle is kinda country, never really thought about it. He's just plain good!
    Last edited by Peter C; 08-01-2020 at 07:06 AM.

  11. #10

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    Country and jazz? You betcha.


  12. #11
    joelf Guest
    Listen, I've posted many pieces in Composition, heard nary a peep from anyone.

    That doesn't bother me. This will sound immodest I know, but I'm a composer recognized by names in the jazz world you would know, and I'm not looking for props by posting. But maybe someone will dig something and use or pass it on. Or get something out of it.

    Here's how I view it:

    1. No one owes anyone anything, and people will do what they do, or don't do. All fine with me.
    2. It's not paying any bills. I take care of business with my music in other ways.
    3. I look at this site and others I post compositions on (including FB) as a 'parking place'. They're publicly viewable, and as long as they're parked someone may just stop by and it might lead to something. Everything's copyrighted, so no worries. Everything posted on the sites is like planting seeds to build a following for my work. You never know who-all is lurking on any site. They could be name people who record, and are looking for material. Beats the hell outta leaving them in the file cabinet---doesn't it?

    I feel the same way about cover lead sheets I've posted; study threads, etc. I hope someone gets something out of them, but no sweat if no one does, or few do. I'm not that needy, my mother hugged me enough. And in the larger scheme of things how important is any of it really?

    Again, people can do as they wish, but I encourage composers posting work here and elsewhere on the Web to be businesslike about it---especially if they're taking it seriously enough to want some remuneration down the line. And copyright, don't just post flys%%t on the wall and devil may care. Try to get represented by a royalty society like ASCAP. To find out how, call (212)621-6000. Be smart.

    And best of luck to the writers (and players) who post here...
    Last edited by joelf; 07-31-2020 at 07:14 PM.

  13. #12

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    The answer is that this website is merely entertainment. I don't come here for my serious practicing time. Years ago I stopped trying to "learn" stuff from this site, because the sources are often unknowns and other sources (i.e. some who post a lot) strike me as not really worth relying on compared to other resources that are available. I'm no great player by any stretch but I've spent quite a bit of time with pro muso's so I think I know what's what and I'm comfortable disregarding most so-called serious stuff here. There is no shortage of jazz stuff I should be learning based on things from outside this forum...so why should I try to cram more onto the list? Take a tune, learn as much of it by ear as you can, and then spend a month on it shedding it in all twelve keys then transcribe 8 bars of a solo and work that vocab. Isn't that basically the process? You could spend your non-pro music life doing nothing else and, if you put the time in and find jamming/gigging opportunities, you'll become a decent player...without any of it coming from this forum.

    So again, it's entertainment. If I cease to find someone entertaining then I just add them to my "ignore" list, problem solved. I'm sure I'm on a few lists.

    Also, to be pedantic, it's called the "jazz guitar forum" so the argument can be made that we're here to talk purely about gear , you know, jazz guitars and the accessories/amps connected to them.

  14. #13

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    Well, no imminent conversion to country music for the moment, but will definitely be checking out Jimmy Wyble's etudes & The Chosen Fugue. Could be quite a discovery, thanks! (edit: this is in response reply to a since deleted post)

    Very much aware of Clint Strong as a player.

    Joelf, I have never commented on your compositions because I haven't heard one that I relate to personally and I don't have time (or enough fluency) to get much out of lead sheets sans instrument in my hands. Nonetheless, I wish you luck in your pursuits. Anything I post is copyrighted, by the way.

    I should point out that in my first post, I was talking about the lack of interest shown in someone else's work, not my own.

    Fair enough, coolvinny, you have every right to your take on this forum. As for me, it would be great to get feedback here because there are no musicos in my immediate surroundings and my wonderful family, who are surpringly not seasoned musicians, just say either "muy bonito" or "that sounds weird" (=dissonant).
    Last edited by Peter C; 08-01-2020 at 07:08 AM.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    I wonder what Reg would have to say about people not reviewing his stuff because the quality is "a given".
    And his grasp of timing is excellent; I'm sure he will post here at just the right moment.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    Well, no imminent conversion to country music for the moment, but will definitely be checking out Jimmy Wyble's etudes & The Chosen Fugue. Could be quite a discovery, thanks!

    .
    Peter...

    Many folks that are well known in the "country" genre have many links in the jazz world by way of songs they have written...Willie Nelson is a good example..some of his tunes are standards "Crazy" is one.

    On just the pure music side some top players are well versed in jazz and the many of the session folks are scary hot..all instruments not just the twangy guitar pickers

    a bit of reading on the topic may interest you..it has a long history with some very talented people...and it is not an easy style to immerse yourself in..to really play it..you have to know what your doing


    .

  17. #16

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    OP! maybe try Jack Zuckers - Modern Jazz Guitar page on Facebook - Modern Jazz Guitar Public Group | Facebook for more kindred spirits

  18. #17

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    It's funny, every time I see a thread on pop or rock subject, someone always inclined to say 'hey, it's a jazz forum, what you doing?'. Almost makes me want to write more on that just to annoy the forum police.

    But life goes on, people will talk about what they want, or excited about, and it's all for the better. Nothing upsets me, at least.

  19. #18

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    I didnt even realize there was a "Composition" forum.

  20. #19

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    No one seems to look much at the composition threads.

  21. #20

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    Being relatively new to this forum and also new to jazz guitar I must admit I'm unlikely to be looking in the Composition threads. I'm more interested in hearing, for example, how more experienced players tackle playing a chord-melody version of a particular standard, or a solo version of a tune by any of my jazz heroes, like Monk, Mingus, Shorter, Coltrane, Mary Lou Williams for example. Anyone posting a tune by someone as quirky as Eric Dolphy or Grachan Moncur III would guarantee a view and a listen and a like from me.

    I'm not going to be curious about a forum member's compositions unless I've already heard them playing jazz repertoire in an interesting fashion. If someone described a particular composition in a compelling way, that might pique my curiosity.

  22. #21

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    In general, I don't download unknown files to listen to or look at from internet forums. If the person wants to share and make it convenient for others, they'll find a host like youtube, soundcloud, dropbox w/built in player. Otherwise, I have to download the file, choose a player or viewer, and when done, delete the dang file, cuz I don't use my computer to collect garbage.

    I figure if they're too lazy to present it in a simple format, they aren't that serious.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    In general, I don't download unknown files to listen to or look at from internet forums. If the person wants to share and make it convenient for others, they'll find a host like youtube, soundcloud, dropbox w/built in player. Otherwise, I have to download the file, choose a player or viewer, and when done, delete the dang file, cuz I don't use my computer to collect garbage.

    I figure if they're too lazy to present it in a simple format, they aren't that serious.
    True dat. Gimme a video, even if it's just an audio. Put something in there, entertain me. I don't download nothing from strangers.

  24. #23

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    There's nothing worse than music snobbery...

  25. #24

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    wolflen, country music is a staple in US popular culture but I wonder how many non-stateside jazz aficionados dig it?

    Hep, barking up the wrong tree here, man. Ain't no jazz fuzz around here. Read my premise (why more apparent interest in country than jazz in a jazz forum - pretty simple, eh?)

    Ok, no one reads the composition forum, but see my above allusion to 50k thread views.

    With reference to people who are learning (aren't we all?), cool, but this thread isn't for you.

    CG, you're right, posters should use YT, soundcloud, whatever. That said, I didn't need to d/l Reg's mp3s to hear them.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C
    CG, you're right, posters should use YT, soundcloud, whatever. That said, I didn't need to d/l Reg's mp3s to hear them.
    My ipad usually rejects any MP3 attachments to a post, and I am not going to download them, so forget it if it’s an MP3 file.

    In fact there does not seem to be any simple way of downloading them with an iPad, you have to hold the file for several seconds then you get share, copy options, further sub menus etc. I can’t be arsed with all that.

    In fact I did listen to Reg’s files at the time, but I had to log on to a desktop PC to do it.