The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Corn is in the ear of the beholder.

    OUCH !

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Corn is in the mouth of the eater!

  4. #28

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    Played an accurate transcription of this actual big band chart for 15 years. An audience Goodman favorite, nothing corny about it.


  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Played an accurate transcription of this actual big band chart for 15 years. An audience Goodman favorite, nothing corny about it.

    I believe the quality stands the test of time.

  6. #30

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    Are we all going to pretend his "performance" in the Benny Goodman story isn't Oscar worthy? :P

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I always liked Bob Wills too.


    i think the lesson is clear:

    Wear Cowboy Hat, swing harder.

    It's not like I'm desperate for any little advantage or anything.

  8. #32

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    Super hip

    Thing is hip isn’t doing something complex and cerebral (although imo many of the BG sides have this quality) it’s doing something intriguing and stylish. Often it links the popular world with the highbrow... in CC’s case blues and dance music with more advanced harmonic ideas.

    It is of its time, urban, connected to the vernacular, but also referencing other things. It’s kind of a tension, a synthesis of two or more elements.

    (for this reason Steely Dan, say, are hip, and prog rock isn’t hip.)

    So when something talks about a certain voicing being ‘hip’ I think - I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. In context a voicing can be hip. Sonny Clarke comping for Dexter is hip, Bill Evans playing a standard is hip; someone playing an isolated chord, not so much.

    This is what happens when young jazz nerds talk about ‘hip’ - it’s actually pretty cringe. Playing in 11 isn’t hip per se.

    For me most of not all things I find ‘hip’ in jazz have a strong rhythmic side. with Charlie Christian hipness can be found in the way he’ll contrast crisp blues phrases with much more angular phrases that are almost ‘out’ - playing A13 tonalities in D minor, that sort of stuff, but this would mean nothing without the swing. The compositions too ... Air Mail with its straight up riff A and knotty B is Charlie encapsulated.

    (Plus Stravinsky loved those sides and he was pretty hip....)

    Of course the hippest shit CC ever played wasn’t on these sides. But they are still pretty hip.

    ‘Style is a magic wand and turns everything to gold’

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    rabbit,

    I absolutely love Gershwin. OTOH, If you were a bopper in the 40s and 50s, you probably would have regarded Gershwin as impossibly corny.
    Except for the boppers who played rhythm changes...

  10. #34

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    Not a bad singer too!


  11. #35

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    Benny G. and his sidemen were consummate musicians. And, unlike later "Jazz," he played dance music to a generation of listeners/dancers. To compare him to later styles/musicians is an apple/orange discussion. These musicians laid the foundation for all forms of Jazz to evolve to what we have today. And, as a side-note, IMO, Jazz lost its popularity when people could no longer dance to the music. It became cerebral, not visceral. Can you imagine dancing to "Giant Steps?????"
    Play live! . . . Marinero

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Except for the boppers who played rhythm changes...
    They would've played "I Got Rhythm" instead of Oleo if they hadn't thought I Got Rhythm was corny

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve
    They would've played "I Got Rhythm" instead of Oleo if they hadn't thought I Got Rhythm was corny

  14. #38

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  15. #39

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  16. #40

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  17. #41

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    And one of my favorites from a very little mentioned Joe Pass album that I think is fantastic.

    During a rare 6-month period of my life when I was playing jazz every week, the leader called this tune and I'd never heard it or heard of it. But I really fell for it and so Joe Pass' treatment of it is, well, everything I love about Joe Pass.


  18. #42

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    What is hip?
    This is hip!


  19. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    What is hip?
    This is hip!

    'Nuff said ...

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    And one of my favorites from a very little mentioned Joe Pass album that I think is fantastic.

    During a rare 6-month period of my life when I was playing jazz every week, the leader called this tune and I'd never heard it or heard of it. But I really fell for it and so Joe Pass' treatment of it is, well, everything I love about Joe Pass.

    I would hope this album isn't well known by jazz guitar lovers; It is the 2nd most listened to Pass album for me (Tudo Bem being #1, since I find this to be the most melodic Joe).

    Of course there are the Gershwin tunes. Shelly Manne does his thing here and provides a feel similar to the Kessel Trio albums of the 50s. Just solid all around. And did I mention the tunes,,,,

  21. #45

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    Hip or corn, I'd love to be able to play like Benny Goodman and to think up lines like Benny Goodman. Being able to do that would be enough for me!

  22. #46

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    There is a temporal component on both sides of the corny equation.

    Well played music is well played music.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    ‘Style is a magic wand and turns everything to gold’
    Alfred North Whitehead:

    “Style, in its finest sense, is the last acquirement of the educated mind; it is also the most useful. It persuades the whole being. The administrator with a sense for style hates waste. The engineer with a sense for style economizes his material. The artisan with a sense for style prefers good work.

    "Style is the ultimate morality of the mind.”

  24. #48

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    I think Jazz - especially (and maybe only) up to 50s- early 60s was a unoque phenomenon of musical culture.

    It belonged to tough business-stipulated commercial enviroment of mass culture. at the same time within those frames it developed extremely vivid authentic and truely artistic languge.
    Eventually this led to inside conflict: the ambitions of some players to be treated as serious art confronted the actual practice of business. But it was solved through expansion to overseas markets partly, and partly with rock'n'roll sunstituting jazz on pure mass entertainment seen - so jazz could safely move into the 'true art' niche. Did it serve it for better or worse? To be honest I am not always sure... it gave us new really great names but definitely jazz lost some part of its original authencity with it.


    Coming back to the OP ... I think that genuinity and authencity of performing practice and language are much more inportant than enviroment and repertoire.
    That is why probably Benny Godman is not corny to me... Diana Ross singing Close To You or John Lennon's Jealous Guy... the are not corny too.

    But for example some modern jazz guitarist playing Close To You or Jealous Guy cover can sound terribly corny... though it can be done with sofistication, mastery, skillls and all.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    What is hip?
    This is hip!

    What is hip?
    Why T.O.P of course!

  26. #50

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    With regards to what is corny: The 1941 film Ball of Fire has a scene where corny is defined. I couldn't find that scene but I did find this opening scene from the film with Gene Kuppa.