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A lot of the modern players seem to favour sounds with quite a bit of reverb and delay to it.Also, the modern players either have very even playing dynamics or there's some compression going on, or both. Rosewinkel,Kreisberg, Hekselman, etc. It's a sound I'm not much of a fan of, but I've been wondering wether it "just" a trend or fashion, or whether there is functional aspect to it that I'm overlooking. Does that sound help them achieve something aesthetically, the way a lot of players in the 80s went for chorus sounds because they felt it helped them phrase more hornlike.
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04-30-2020 05:28 AM
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Well, it's not that they play bebop with a reverb pedal on.
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It's a matter of taste. When chorus first came about, the instrument was going through changes in ensemble context, and more electric instruments were being used, rock influences gave rise to new compositional possibilities and this fusion of styles, combined with playing larger venues expanded the role and sound of the guitar. Electric guitar has a different decay envelope than the shorter attack/decay of the traditional jazz box. Many of the players of that generation (Abercrombie, Metheny, Goodrick, McLaughlin, Frisell, etc) started on jazz boxes but found the limitations of that sound alone limiting. Too, the ECM label was a big player and influence on shaping the sound of the music of that time and Manfred Eicher always favoured a spacious "wet" sound in his aesthetic.
All these factours conspired to form and favour a new sound and approach to the instrument. The technology at the time, Lexicon delays, choruses, made it easy for a musician to get the sound of space in a linear approach that fit well on an electric guitar.
Plus, that generation of players was enormously popular in a way that hadn't been seen, and their choices of sound became the sensibility that was emulated and that brought up a whole new generation of guitarists. Everybody wanted to sound like young Pat Metheny!
If you don't like it, then don't! Plenty of players are making choices to find their own sound; there's no rule of MUSTs in jazz. Ralph Towner, Jonathan Kreisberg, Peter Bernstein, Jim Hall, Julian Lage... all players who search(ed) for alternative ways to make a guitar sound like they imagine.
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It's a trend. Just like all the others that have passed. And just like those before, only time will tell if it will be an evergreen or not.
Everything evolves. There's no telling in which direction. So well see what becomes of this evolution.
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I don't think that you overlook anything and why should the guitar-world be exempt from following trends, especially now, where we can follow, copy and stay close to almost every player via the internet ?
When I was coming up 40 years ago the "JAZZ" sound-du-jour that everyone was chasing was either a fake Metheny, Sco or Stern sound : lots of modulation, sometimes more sometimes less overdrive. Before that it was McLaughlin and DiMeola who set the trends. From the late 70's on players like Carlton, Ritenour and Ford set major trends in the pop/rock/blues camp.
Rosenwinkel definitly tries to emulate a more horn-like tone with a subdued attack and I think this was also the idea behind Metheny's choice of pick and how he holds it : the rounded side yields a much softer attack. This sound aesthetic is not really new but today we have many more options how to achieve this . Mike Moreno, Ben Monder also come to mind. For the type of music these guys write and interpret this sound is IMHO more suitable and fitting than say, a rough-edged and lightly overdriven tone like Sco is getting. Another major force these days is Julian Lage : he basically only uses a guitar and an amp, lately a Tele and a small tube combo and he deliberately plays with the dynamic deficiencies of these small amps, getting them to saturate and compress when he digs in. His overall touch is quite smooth and fluid but still much less so than what the afore mentioned players practice.
When you look at players outside the New York City scene you will hear different sounds. Interesting subject !
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Yeah it does. The main thing I would say is it increases the ‘size’ of the instrument. By which I mean chords and single note lines acquire a greater depth and weight. Chords ring out with more harmonic complexity as they interfere with themselves though the speaker and so on.
Originally Posted by Average Joe
If you’ve ever played gigs with a dry Fender amp you’ll know the guitar can sound kind of small and thin even when there’s a good amount of volume. Also you are very much at the mercy of the room. Some rooms can make the guitar sound very pokey and brittle.
(Also the amp can be harder to play. Reverb does smooth things out...)
So with ambience types effects, these problems are eased quite a bit. the guitar can start to attain more of the qualities of a well miked piano, producing a more three dimensional sound.
double amp set ups like that used by Kreisberg increase this three dimensionality further.
problem is - it’s very hard to wean yourself off this once you are into it. Also starts to sound a bit cliche. I notice recently players seem to be going more dry... even players like Lage Lund.
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Yeah @jimmybluenote, you got to trace it back to Bright Size Life...
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I don't think it has much to do with Metheny.
This is your first full generation of jazz players who didn't start out playing jazz. These guys are 80's/90's babies. They like Radiohead and probably picked up a guitar because they heard Appetite for Destruction. Effects have been part of their whole guitar playing life.
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I find it a two way street as Christian says. Right now I prefer a little analog chorus, a little analog delay, and a little spring reverb for my living room setup, but for many years it was just straight amp. When I say "little" I mean very little like where the effects just begin to show. Now I can't go back to just straight amp. For many years, and maybe still, a Roland Jazz Chorus was the go-to amp for gigging guitarists, so I figure I can't be too far off with little of the sap running.
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thin picks, skinny strings, low action, too much distortion, compression and or FX = yawn... IMVHO (well, 99% of the time).
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Princeplanet,
Been meaning to compliment you on your avatar and name. Big, old-school anime fan, here...although I'm more of an Astro Boy guy, myself.
Cheers!
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A big part is the guitars they are playing. With a full hollowbody, you already have all the weight you need on the notes, there's only so much space for effects. With a semi or solid electric guitar, you can do a lot more with effects, etc. And these guitars often need the extra something.
And of course it's about finding a voice also, and a space on the musical spectrum..
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I quite like your avatar too Originally Posted by Greentone
Princeplanet,
Been meaning to compliment you on your avatar and name. Big, old-school anime fan, here...although I'm more of an Astro Boy guy, myself.
Cheers!
But c'mon, Astro Boy? Sorta like comparing GG to WG ! hehe ... 
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Oh I dunno, maybe with an L5 turned to a nice, medium volume, but I often find with a 175 the sound can be a bit thin and pokey with a dry Fender amp at more of a band level. A clean boost can help, but a delay or reverb (or both!) sorts the problem out. Originally Posted by Alter
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I sort of know what you all are talking about, but can someone give a good example of a modern, "wet" tone? And then something "dry" to compare it to?
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Wet:
Dry...really, really dry.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Good answers, thanks all.
I can see the point of making the guitar sound bigger. I suppose it's the same reason Sco, Stern, etc went for the chorus a couple of generations ago. Everybody will find their path I suppose.
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Yeah, delay leads to a bit is a chorus effect even, as repeats interfere with themselves....
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I can dig a little reverb and delay but prefer them so low that I don’t really notice them until I turn them off.
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This^^^^^^. So much, this^^^^^^! Originally Posted by Alter
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Bill Frisell uses as large a variety of effects as any guy half his age, and he has always sounded perfect for whatever he tries to accomplish. It's about the creative musical possibilities of the electric guitar.
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Here is Bill pretty dry with Elvis Costello
He always gets his sound.
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haha just listening to them last night. Originally Posted by Stevebol
i like that sort of dub like ‘blooming delay’ thing he gets. I wonder if that’s an expression pedal.
Also he has strong fringe game.
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mclaughlin sound here
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