The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    ^^^
    Wigs.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    It in no way diminishes my respect

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wet:


    Dry...really, really dry.
    Gotcha! The first is like a half-and-half martini, the second is like 2 oz of Bombay Sapphire with a scent of vermouth.

    Can I say that I like them both really a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    I have tickets to see them at a festival this summer...it’s in August, but I’m thinking it will probably be cancelled. :-(

    Hopefully we will get our $$$ back.

  5. #29

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    It is a Strymon El Capistan with an expression pedal apparently.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Wet:


    Dry...really, really dry.
    I really disliked what they did with that AP song. I don't care what they did with the time...
    I'd rather hear JB's interpretation, but it's all a matter of taste:

  7. #31

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    That Jonatha Brooke rules.

  8. #32

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    Pop is the new jazz. Let's not demean things by calling that a 'cover'. It's an interpretation.
    Amazing.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Pop is the new jazz. Let's not demean things by calling that a 'cover'. It's an interpretation.
    Amazing.
    Yeah, there's some amazing artists out there. Jonatha is one of them. Today I heard this guy Charlie Rosen on WBGO. He was doing things with Stevie Wonder tunes that were next level stuff, combining funk with big band jazz, and a string section.
    In the end, it's like Duke said, about music being good or bad.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    That Jonatha Brooke rules.
    Prettiest thing I've heard in a long time. Connection to the lyrics. Sense of tonality.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Prettiest thing I've heard in a long time. Connection to the lyrics. Sense of tonality.
    Check out what this cat is doing with Stevie Wonder:
    Isn't She Lovely - #TeamChuck ft. John Michael Lyles + Flutes (Stevie Wonder) - YouTube

  12. #36

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    I don't know what they are thinking, but I play with processing and I can tell you why.

    I felt stymied by a guitar sound that didn't match the sound in my mind. I wanted it to sing. I wanted the high notes to be thick and heavy. No plink. Good sustain.

    I spent a lot of time trying to get closer to that.

    During those moments when I get the sound of the guitar to match the sound in my mind, it frees me up and I can get closer to playing what I'm thinking and feeling.

    Technical details: A guitar that doesn't plink out at the high end -- best one ever was a D'Angelico EXDC, but the sound regressed after a couple of years and I couldn't recover it, even with very careful fretwork etc. I use an ME80 with some preamp, octave, reverb and maybe a tiny bit of distortion. With that, I can get my sound out of a lot of different guitars and amps. My current fave is a Little Jazz. With all that properly tweaked, I can forget about the gear.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Yeah @jimmybluenote, you got to trace it back to Bright Size Life...
    agreed , he also started the thing of sliding off the note
    slippery slidey ,
    that and playing the reverb
    (not playing with reverb , playing the reverb ....)

    first one one to do dat I reckon ....
    also moving triads over or under a pedal
    also he's a bitchin bop player
    I don't play with fx but like him a lot ....

    his version of 'and I love her' is sublime ....

  14. #38

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    So much depends on the room. With electronic reverb you have some influence over that in fact. Also does no one else find that reverb-less Fender sounds can be very unforgiving?

  15. #39

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    In my living room, yes.

    On the gig, most rooms are live enough I don't need reverb. But I bring a reverb pedal every time, just in case...

  16. #40

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    I like a bit more than natural reverb, and reverb can fatten up a thinner tone or slow down the decay on a hollowbody. I think it's an important element of the sound of the electric guitar after the technology was developed.

    Hawaiian music helped influence the reverb aesthetic of steel guitar, surf, country, rockabilly, western swing/jazz. Les Paul was obsessed with it.



    Hank liked it too.

    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 05-03-2020 at 04:27 AM.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    In my living room, yes.

    On the gig, most rooms are live enough I don't need reverb. But I bring a reverb pedal every time, just in case...
    There quite a few situations where you don't need anything... What amp do you play normally?

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    agreed , he also started the thing of sliding off the note
    slippery slidey ,
    that and playing the reverb
    (not playing with reverb , playing the reverb ....)

    ...
    Just for the sake of historical reference, Pat's sound was very much a revolution among that generation and all who followed. But listen or watch the performances of Gary Burton's band when he was playing with Mick Goodrick and Steve Swallow. Mick's sound was so strong, legato and a lot of phrasing coming from movement up and down the neck. He was playing an Epi Sheridan at the time and Pat's sound, as iconic as it was, was very much crafted from the vibe of the Burton band at that time. On recordings, it's easy to mistake Pat for Mick. Mick and John Abercrombie back then, were roomies in Boston and the symbiosis between them can be argued to be the genesis of a sound and approach to modern guitar as we know it.
    But any time I talk with Mick about Pat's sound back then, he always says "It was Swallow's sliding thing. Pat really got that from Swallow." It's not where you come from though, it's what it becomes.
    Just a glimpse of what was happening back then...

  19. #43

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    Thanks Jimmy, that's really interesting.

  20. #44

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    It's tricky to assign 'purpose' to art, but I see the 'modern' sound as going hand in hand with the guitar's 'modern' role as a more legato, horn-like lead voice and more contrapuntal, textural comping vs the traditional 4/4 rhythm playing. Steve Khan says that his chorus and delay stereo setup is to mimic the majesty of Larry Young's B3.

    David Byrne has an interesting book about the world history of music, his thesis being that music evolves to fit the spaces where it can be performed, musicians adapt to the cathedrals of Europe and wide open villages of West Africa and play what's most possible in those spaces. Perhaps another factor in the 'modern' sound is it's ability to travel, getting a solid body or semi on an airplane is much easier than a full size Kenny Burrell/Johnny Smith archtop, and having a small effects board in your carry on helps personalize the sound you get from a series of inconsistent amps-du-jour (And forget about traveling with an amp on a jazz budget, unless you're Pat Metheney...)

    Interesting to think about Steve Swallow's influence on 'the guitar scene', recall that when Steve played upright he was in Art Farmer's group beside Jim Hall...

    PK

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulkogut
    It's tricky to assign 'purpose' to art, but I see the 'modern' sound as going hand in hand with the guitar's 'modern' role as a more legato, horn-like lead voice and more contrapuntal, textural comping vs the traditional 4/4 rhythm playing. Steve Khan says that his chorus and delay stereo setup is to mimic the majesty of Larry Young's B3.

    David Byrne has an interesting book about the world history of music, his thesis being that music evolves to fit the spaces where it can be performed, musicians adapt to the cathedrals of Europe and wide open villages of West Africa and play what's most possible in those spaces. Perhaps another factor in the 'modern' sound is it's ability to travel, getting a solid body or semi on an airplane is much easier than a full size Kenny Burrell/Johnny Smith archtop, and having a small effects board in your carry on helps personalize the sound you get from a series of inconsistent amps-du-jour (And forget about traveling with an amp on a jazz budget, unless you're Pat Metheney...)
    I really like Byrne's book ... It is kind of an obvious point when you think about it. But we tend to constantly make the mistake of separating the music out from the environment and community. This is why so little music education makes any sense, on any level.

    Barry Harris would agree - he always says 'worst thing that ever happened to jazz was coming out of the dance halls and into the jazz clubs.'

    The implicit understanding here, whether or not you agree with him is that the dance hall was a shaping environment - certain tempos, ways of playing and an aesthetic of music. As soon as you start playing to seated audiences your relationship changes, and the music changes.

    IIRC Byrne also talks about technology. Well, in a dance hall an acoustic guitar isn't going to be soloing. The virtuoso guitar soloing of the prewar age came from Europe, where there was a cafe culture, perhaps more street musicians too. In the US it took Charlie Christian and the electric guitar to truly move the guitar out of the chord soloing style.

    Now of course, we have loud drums - synthetic heads, rock influenced playing styles... the guitar has got louder too in response. Bringing an L5 to a gig can be like bringing a knife to a gun fight. And that's even for acoustic jazz gigs haha.

    Anyway, I think you are right. I can take a pedal board and plug into... some sort of Fender amp .... and get a sound. If I have just a guitar and an amp it's much more sensitive. TBH you would want a rig you can plug straight into the PA now if you have to.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulkogut

    Interesting to think about Steve Swallow's influence on 'the guitar scene', recall that when Steve played upright he was in Art Farmer's group beside Jim Hall...

    PK
    Paul, I know you were around at that time.
    About the influences and sounds we try to emulate through our instruments, Steve's model for the sonic ideal was Marvin Gaye's voice. He said his approach was rooted in the feel of the acoustic upright and the tonal qualities of Marvin Gaye's singing. He used to laugh at the fact that many people, upright players among them, consider that he captures the essence of the acoustic bass better than upright players amping their double basses.
    You have a sound that resonates deep inside you and you use all the resources available to pursue that. That's the secret of a really successful effect, wet or not. "Does it resonate?"

  23. #47

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    Good to know about the Marvin Gaye connection! Having a strong, defined vision for 'your sound' in your own mind's ear is the key, then you can chase after it by all the means at your disposal. I recall a Guitar Player profile on Swallow when I was in college (mid 80's), he was talking about his new rig (maybe the Filipetti? and Walter Woods amp) and said 'there's no shame in seeking to buy a better sound"...

    I've been really lucky, I met Mick and Jim Hall at the Guitar Workshop seminar in Connecticut, stayed in touch with both, and Mick gave me Abercrombie's number when I moved to NYC in the 90's . The main reason I'm on this forum is that those cats were so generous to me with their knowledge, and I feel an obligation to pass it on as best I can (I never miss an opportunity to talk about playing up and down one string...)

    Not sure if we've crossed paths in the real world, or will have an opportunity to do so post quarantine , but best wishes for your and everyone's musics!

    PK

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe
    A lot of the modern players seem to favour sounds with quite a bit of reverb and delay to it.Also, the modern players either have very even playing dynamics or there's some compression going on, or both. Rosewinkel,Kreisberg, Hekselman, etc. It's a sound I'm not much of a fan of, but I've been wondering wether it "just" a trend or fashion, or whether there is functional aspect to it that I'm overlooking. Does that sound help them achieve something aesthetically, the way a lot of players in the 80s went for chorus sounds because they felt it helped them phrase more hornlike.

    This:

    "because they felt it helped them phrase more hornlike."


    It is the same now, the percussive quality more associated with the past, with less legato, allows for less fluidity, more challenging to play long hornlike phrases etc....

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe
    Good answers, thanks all.

    I can see the point of making the guitar sound bigger. I suppose it's the same reason Sco, Stern, etc went for the chorus a couple of generations ago. Everybody will find their path I suppose.
    Actually, it was usually often short delays rather than choruses

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by greveost
    Actually, it was usually often short delays rather than choruses
    True, but it was commonly said that you could get the Metheny sound with a chorus pedal. That's why I got one at the time. I bet BOSS sold a million chorus units just based on the incorrect assumption that Pat got his sound from a chorus pedal.