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  1. #1

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    Is anyone seeing gig cancellations?

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  3. #2

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    I can’t see anything at the moment.

    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-b64a34e4-4d02-4c10-9ac5-60999b4ad852-jpg

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
    Is anyone seeing gig cancellations?
    A bandleader who hired me once or twice a month lost his gig at an airport hotel due to the virus. So I have lost those gigs as a result of the downturn in the travel industry, caused by the virus fear.

    Some of my Washington State friends have reported lost gigs due to the virus (They have had some deaths up there).

    Attendance at all four of my regular gigs is down. I believe it is due to the mass hysteria over this virus created by our screwed up corporate media. If the flames of this fear driven nonsense are fanned much longer, I see the potential is there to put me into early retirement (which will be fine if that happens). Meanwhile, as a very healthy 62 year old, I plan on going out and enjoying my life. Living in fear of a tiny virus is the province of weak minded people, not me. The sky ain't falling chicken little......

  5. #4

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    The spreading of the virus i.e. the efforts to contain it is massively affecting musicians in Europe, especially in Italy where the govt. has just closed down all public life in the northern parts of the country, including Milano, Turino and Venice.
    Schools and universities are closed, cinemas, clubs, etc. ..... this will cause a massive loss of income to many many , not only our fellow musicians. I fear that we will see more of this type of govt. action elsewhere in Europe in the weeks to come and it will be severe .....

  6. #5

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    A guy I hired for my Englewood Hospital gig---very well-known and terrific player I was looking forward to working with---cancelled on his doctor's advice not to go near a hospital. And who knows how this will affect this bread-and-butter 3 weeks/month gig down the line? What decision the hospital brass will make?

    Yesterday, after the guy cancelled, I was playing in a very public, enclosed space with lots of homeless street people around, coughing, etc. That's when it hit me that I could easily get sick too. I'm not panicked, but pretty worried now---was covering my face and not letting strangers get too close. This thing is no joke, and we all should proceed with caution---don't stop living or working, but take sensible steps to protect ourselves and others...

  7. #6

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    Couple of my friends in NY have a bunch of corporate gigs cancelled, conventions, weddings as well. Same thing in Europe, if the heat doesn't stop the virus, seems its going to be a VERY gig light spring/summer.. Entertainment industry (and education) are going to be on hold it seems..
    Last edited by Alter; 03-08-2020 at 01:23 PM.

  8. #7

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    Had my first cancellation yesterday. Expecting more.

  9. #8

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    First off.. I believe the whole virus thing is real and not click-bait hysteria. One source, like right or left media, will mislead everyone. But when big oil, the bond markets, equities, all news outlets including international, and what's demonstrably happening on the ground in places with more open societies like Italy all agree, it's pretty likely it's the real deal. So it's probably a good idea to find alternate income for awhile. Probably all the way out to late summer.

    Here is the John Hopkins dashboard. Some of the numbers are likely inaccurate like those from China and Iran. The US numbers reflect the incompetence of our CDC in not testing but will change quickly over the next few weeks. Much of this is already as factual as we're going to get. Seems to show the trend for Europe with some consistency.

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  10. #9

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    While not only Jazz music, and for sure Jazz is the minority, still there is some Jazz at the South-By-Southwest (SXSW) in Austin, Texas, which is put on annual and attracts musicians from around the world. Lots of money will NOT be made.

    These Austin Businesses Are Trying To Keep The Music Going After SXSW's Cancellation | KUT

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Lots of money will NOT be made.
    That is the thing. It's not only about the entertainment industry .... If this continues, we might well be heading into a recession of sorts

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    That is the thing. It's not only about the entertainment industry .... If this continues, we might well be heading into a recession of sorts
    I think a recession is inevitable. Big festivals are almost certainly going to be cancelled, unless the virus does wane with the warmer weather, as happened with SARS. But I don’t think we can rely on this.

    I think smaller club gigs and events can and should go on. But we’re in uncharted territory here.

    Much as I would like to think it is not that bad or will end up being a minor event in the big scheme of things, right now the smart money is going the other way.

    My hospital had one case in a person who traveled to England, and there are a couple more being tested in the hospital right now. I’m sure I will see or hear about several cases this week.

    As far as who’s to blame for dropping the ball re’ testing, it’s complicated, and I think we need a vigorous post-mortem to figure it out. The CDC came up with a test in January, but rolling it out to the states has not worked well. Private and university labs should have been recruited much earlier to develop their own tests (doing so requires a waiver from the government). This happened during H1N1 and Ebola but didn’t happen this time.

    My own take on it is that the American system is too focused on the medical marketplace and not enough on public health. And the current administration is aggressively anti-public health—cut the NIH budget by 7% last year and has been trying to cut NIH and CDC every year they’ve been in office. And eliminated the national security adviser on outbreaks. (One of John Bolton’s first tasks.) You reap what you sow.

  13. #12

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    It depends on whether you live in or intend to travel to a Coronavirus crisis area or not.
    Yes, currently the European situation is particularly tragic in northern Italy!


    A jazz club in Milano (Lombardy): Programmazione - Blue Note Milano


    90 percent of the 145 hospitals in Lombardy are now said to care for Coronavirus patients, while the remaining 10 percent will focus on other serious illnesses and emergencies.
    According to estimates by the head of the Italian Supreme Health Institute, 250 doctors have already contracted the coronavirus in hospitals, plus 150 general practitioners. At the moment, however, they can hardly be replaced. It was therefore decided not to quarantine doctors who have come into contact with coronavirus patients…

    Moscow reacts violently: every returnee from a Coronavirus crisis area has to keep to house quarantine for fourteen days; otherwise there's a risk of five years in prison.


    Areas of crisis can develop very fast:
    A relative of mine is the leading infectiologist for the autonomous province in northern Italy, South Tyrol.
    On January 28 of this year, there was no confirmed or suspected Coronavirus case across the province, she said.
    A few days ago, South Tyrol was declared a virus "risk area", at least according to the assessment of the German authorities - which, however, were not decisive for South Tyrol...

    No reason to panic … stay healthy!
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 03-08-2020 at 09:20 PM.

  14. #13

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    Before Covid-19 virus = 5 people in audience

    After Covid-19 virus = 2 people in audience


  15. #14

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    I just finished ten shows in late Feb. to today, and the auditoriums were packed. I've got another fifteen shows left in March. So far, there has been no notice of cancellations, and my next gig is Tuesday.

    They've already notified me that my steady summer gig is not being cancelled.

  16. #15

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    I just turned 65, have chronic respiratory issues, so my doctor told me I'm in the demographic that should just stay at home as much as possible until shit gets sorted out. So currently, that means I'm missing rehearsals for two jazz orchestras I play in, and any other side projects, pick up gigs, etc. Won't be going to see any live music either. This whole situation is not looking good for me, or most any busy musician.

  17. #16

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    I had a bad flu with fever, coughing and the whole shebang two weeks ago. Missed a rehearsal because of that. I had travelled the week before, thru Schiphol airport. I was really sick, haven't had a bad flu like that in years! Fortunately after 4 days of fever it was gone. Maybe it was COVID-19, who knows? Meanwhile I'm fighting evil with evil:?quality=80&strip=all&w=840&h=630&crop=1

  18. #17

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    Yup

    just had one cancelled for this week at a hotel that has had major cancellations..i live in Palm springs Ca area..Total tourist destination during our season, which is right now..the major tennis tournament BNP, cancelled..i live around the corner from Coachella and Stagecoach fests..talk is they are next to get clipped..i have a couple corporate gigs on the books. expecting a call soon saying those are dead. i think the $100 bar gigs and country clubs down here will continue on to a degree. If it aint the corona virus its AB5, if it aint those its something else....i have a gig tomorrow that's gonna get rained out im almost certain..good times!! lol

  19. #18

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    It's trickling down, it'll continue.

    I worry for some friends who have steadies at hotels and restaurants...as the business slows, I hope their gigs aren't cut....because this too shall pass, but recovery can be slow compared to knee-jerk cuts.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    It depends on whether you live in or intend to travel to a Coronavirus crisis area or not.
    Or if someone who lives in / travels through an area with Covid 19 cases travels to / lives in your area....

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    ?quality=80&strip=all&w=840&h=630&crop=1
    I have a friend that has Lyme disease. They just caught the Corona virus. Now they have Corona and Lyme. Prognosis is good.

  22. #21

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    CDC just announced that close voicings are banned for the duration of the outbreak.

    John

  23. #22

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    Perhaps jazz clubs will be a safe haven?

    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-jazz-corona-jpg

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    It's trickling down, it'll continue.

    I worry for some friends who have steadies at hotels and restaurants...as the business slows, I hope their gigs aren't cut....because this too shall pass, but recovery can be slow compared to knee-jerk cuts.
    exactly. Yup trickle down forsure..just had another gig die. Corporate gig where they were coming in for the tennis tournament..and so it begins.

    I had GAS for another guitar...its going away pretty quickly.

  25. #24

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    Life goes on in America's biggest petrie dish- Las Vegas...

    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-vegas-carona-jpg

  26. #25

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    Played the hospital today. People didn't looked too panicked. But they're sitting in the lobby, worried about their loved ones---other things on their minds (or do they have?). Seeing the masks, of course, and also on the long bus trip home. Reading the NY Times, seemed like the first 10 pages were all on the virus, the election year a distant 2nd.

    Selfishly, I'm worried that this will end my gig---the hospital brass won't want people sitting so close in the lobby, where we play, or the nearby cafeteria. Or something else along those lines. Steadies are hard to come by, no one wants to lose one. It's a Jazz Foundation gig, but the client is boss.

    But, unselfishly, this thing is looming large---and bigger than any one of us...

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    CDC just announced that close voicings are banned for the duration of the outbreak.

    John
    And no playing Johnny Smith records...

  28. #27

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    In Shanghai all the gigs were cancelled, I know musicians were all out of work. Many were from Europe, and went back, and now the virus caught up with them there.

    But here it's slowly coming back to normal, so hopefully...

    Not that I had any gigs in Shanghai lined up, but I have to say the first time in my life I'm happy I'm not a full time gigging musician. The school where I teach is still closed, but we do online lessons, and we have more students signing up. We are still getting paid, not fully, but enough for the time being to survive.

    Of course, if it goes for much longer, the chances are the school will go out of business eventually. For now though, I stay put.

  29. #28

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    Schools, music schools and conservatories just closed down today in Greece for 2 weeks. We'll see how things will be by then..

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I just turned 65, have chronic respiratory issues, so my doctor told me I'm in the demographic that should just stay at home as much as possible until shit gets sorted out. So currently, that means I'm missing rehearsals for two jazz orchestras I play in, and any other side projects, pick up gigs, etc. Won't be going to see any live music either. This whole situation is not looking good for me, or most any busy musician.
    Liking the post seems wrong, so I'll just say, "stay safe!"

  31. #30

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    So I live in Massachusetts which has a population of 6.9 million. We have 92 confirmed cases and the Governor just declared a State of Emergency. Most of the colleges aren't going to reopen after spring break and all students will have to finish the semester online. As for the flu, this is from the US CDC.


    CDC estimates that, from October 1, 2019, through February 29, 2020, there have been:

    flu illnesses = 16,000,000 – 23,000,000

    flu medical visits = 34,000,000 – 49,000,000

    flu hospitalizations = 350,000 – 620,000

    flu deaths = 20,000 – 52,000

    Where is the concern about the Flu?

  32. #31

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    The flu kills about 1 in a 1,000

    Covid19 so far estimate is about 1 in 30

    And it seems to be just as contagious as the flu.

  33. #32

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    The concern for the flu is that there is a developed vaccine that decreases the chances of contracting it by about 50%. There is no vaccine for COVID-19, so it could spread rapidly, mutate, etc. with much more effect than the flu. The numbers concerning the flu aren’t reassuring when compared to COVID-19. Just the opposite.

  34. #33

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    As a comparison, Italy has had an average of 17000 flu related deaths per year for the past few years, so around 50 a day. That is, with its whole population exposed to normal flu epidemics, which make around 1+ million people sick per year (9% of the population).

    Now the new virus, with only 10000 people officially sick is claiming 168 deaths in the last 24 hours only, and it could easily infect millions if uncontrolled. So it is very clear why the whole country is in quarantine, and how grave the threat from this desease is.

  35. #34

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    Sounds like the beginnings of panic. I'm aware of the gravity, and frightened myself---but can we please not start to panic? that'll hurt, not help.

    Just take sensible precautions and go on living. Can't do more than that. If you're quarantined obey orders. It could save lives, including yours.

    I wish everyone on here and their loved ones godspeed and good health...

  36. #35

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    I speak from the heart of hell: Cremona, in Lombardy, Italy.
    No one on the streets and ambulances that come and go continuously. The hospital (here we have excellent healthcare) near collapse.
    Since yesterday, all of Italy is literally under curfew, from north to south. Not to mention the economic consequences in all sectors.

    The impression we have is that abroad they consider us crazy for the emergency measures taken, but I can guarantee you that it is a real tragedy. Don't make the mistake of underestimating the effects of covid-19: we - for a while - did it ...

    Sergio

  37. #36

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    I think more or less in a few weeks these measures are going to be pretty common everywhere..

    I wish for the best Sergio.

  38. #37

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    ... oh, and to be more precise, mortality is not the problem, but the fact that a large number of patients need intensive care and forced ventilation: all limited resources. In many regions the number of patients is likely to be higher than the places in therapy. There are fears of having to decide who to let die.
    The only way to avoid this situation is to avoid spreading the infection: this is why drastic measures have been taken here - as in China.
    I don't mean to spread terror, but awareness.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    I think more or less in a few weeks these measures are going to be pretty common everywhere..

    I wish for the best Sergio.
    Thanks, Alter.

    In the worst moments people are strong. It's just that we often notice late that the moments have worsened
    No doubt we will get out of it

  40. #39

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    Good info, Sergio.

    Thank you.

    Everybody take necessary precautions.

  41. #40

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    I apologize if I came across as not treating the corona virus as being serious, that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to point out how much we are already effected by dealing with the seasonal flu here and the addition of this. I'm about to turn 62 and I'm a full time caregiver to my 86 year-old Mother, and I have a sister with a very weak immune system, so I'm very concerned about both illnesses. I pray for all those effected and those not yet infected. Be safe.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strbender
    I apologize if I came across as not treating the corona virus as being serious, that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to point out how much we are already effected by dealing with the seasonal flu here and the addition of this. I'm about to turn 62 and I'm a full time caregiver to my 86 year-old Mother, and I have a sister with a very weak immune system, so I'm very concerned about both illnesses. I pray for all those effected and those not yet infected. Be safe.
    Oh, well: no need to apologize: as I said, here too we underestimated the problem by making comparisons with normal flu. The problem is that the flu is potentially lethal only for those who have breathing problems or are in poor health. The Covid-19 instead attacks heavily the respiratory system even in young and healthy people, and mass treatments are not possible, with the means available...
    In any case, I realized that I was perhaps too apocalyptic, in a hurry to write ... It is that we are still quite shocked. It is a completely new situation for us too.

  43. #42

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    You know I think 14 days of lockdown in the UK to blunt the rise of this thing would not be the worst thing in the world. It would be annoying and tedious, but worth doing. Get in there earlier than Italy. Just do it.

    The biggest problems for most people not in salaried work is sick pay. I doubt anyone is thinking of musician's gigs.

    But 14 days of no work in March is better than the alternative (including in the financial sense.)

  44. #43

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    Sergio –


    I am hoping for the best for you and your family and what sounds like tremendously difficult conditions.


    The problem with the coronavirus is that it is a novel illness and thus there are no established best practices to fall back on like there are with the flu. Since there is no vaccine, there is no herd immunity. We don't yet know if some people are naturally resistant (it is likely) but certainly some will be more susceptible for bad outcomes. Will 100% become infected if exposed? 70%? 30%? 10%? Of those who become infected, how many will die- 0.10%, 1%, 10? Those orders of magnitude may mean hundreds or tens of thousands of lives.

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Sergio –


    I am hoping for the best for you and your family and what sounds like tremendously difficult conditions.


    The problem with the coronavirus is that it is a novel illness and thus there are no established best practices to fall back on like there are with the flu. Since there is no vaccine, there is no herd immunity. We don't yet know if some people are naturally resistant (it is likely) but certainly some will be more susceptible for bad outcomes. Will 100% become infected if exposed? 70%? 30%? 10%? Of those who become infected, how many will die- 0.10%, 1%, 10? Those orders of magnitude may mean hundreds or tens of thousands of lives.
    True. One thing we lack is any idea of how many people have had the virus overall. From the Chinese data it appears 80% of cases are mild and easily confused for other common viruses, and it arrived in the flu season, it's very hard to get overall figures because people get bugs all the time.

    Could there be undiagnosed cases, even in China? Or South Korea, where they seem very on it?

    So it's all very hard to figure out.

  46. #45

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    Panic is never helpful. Never.
    Nevertheless, one should face the facts objectively, do whatever halfway reasonable societies and humans can do, and fight alternative facts like the real plague!


    Case letality rate (CLR) of the common annual waves of flu: 0.1 - 0.2 percent -- Covid-19: between 0.5 - 3.0 (4.0) percent

    SARS-CoV-2 (very likely several subtypes) is about twice as contagious as the flu virus.

    The population has partial immunity to the flu; there are preventive vaccination and antiviral drugs -- Covid-19: nada


    Epidemiologists use mathematical modelling procedures. This modelling is about probabilities. Every small change of a factor can lead to major changes in the whole system. At the present time, according to these models, and in the worst case, 60 to 70 percent of all people could be infected with SARS-CoV-2.
    It is immediately important to keep the rise in the number of cases as flat as possible. With an assumed lethality of one percent, around two million people could die in the US alone. So the goal must be: around two thirds of the Covid-19 communications must be prevented to bring the pandemic under control. Yes, that could be achieved!
    The enormous burden of the Covid-19 pandemic is in addition to the annual flu, and could blow up even well-positioned health systems.

    "The forecasts indicate that around March 26th we will have 20,000 Covid-19 patients in hospital, of whom between a quarter and a third will require intensive care. And we do not believe that we will be able to have enough structure, equipment, doctors and nursing staff to treat such a large number of patients. That is why we insist: the only way to survive this disaster as a system is to stay at home."
    - Prof. Antonio Pesenti, Crisis Unit for Intensive Care Medicine, Lombardy/Italy, March 10, 2020


    Well, time to go outside to help affected people more, or to stay in the woodshed to play and build guitars, or just reread the Decameron by Boccaccio, or look for the plague doctors "to cure" some reckless person in power ...
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 03-10-2020 at 07:38 PM.

  47. #46

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    The Argentinian saxophonist Marcelo Peralta has died of Coronavirus: Murió en Madrid el saxofonista argentino Marcelo Peralta

  48. #47

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    Surprisingly, some casinos where I live are being proactive. Planned paid sick leave, screening. More cleaners. Once it hits the employees we're probably screwed. The lack of actual testing in the US compared to other countries is disgraceful.

  49. #48

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    Good luck everyone in dealing with this virus. I wish I had some special insights...

    The last patient I had today, at 16:40, was a 45 y/o guy with pneumonia. Nothing special—a chicken farmer from Iowa. But now there is concern for coronavirus.

    So I dressed like a character out of Andromeda Strain to go see him.

    We don’t know how this is heading. For our friends in China and Italy—good luck and hopefully the virus will fade away as spring comes.

    In the US we are lucky that the advent of the virus coincides with warmer weather. So we may be spared the problems that Italy and Wuhan have faced.

    We’ll see. Predictions are hard, particularly about the future...

  50. #49

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    The number of deaths in the US annually from the common flu is very close to the number who die from gunshot wounds, on the order of 30,000. But nobody has ever panicked at those numbers. The mortality rate in Washington state in the US so far is ~20%. At those rates, people do panic, and are. Cans of Lysol spray are going for $45, if they can be found. There is no hand sanitizer anywhere, and soap is becoming scarce. Not to mention dried pasta and other non-perishable foods. The stock market has crashed, and will likely go much lower. So far, the government is fighting the virus by proposing tax cuts. They will cure anything.

    My son has multiple myeloma, and recently underwent a stem cell transplant after his immune system was completely killed, thus greatly impaired ability to fight any infection. He's currently in the hospital for an unknown viral infection. All they can say is that it isn't COVID-9. It looks like he will be okay this time, but the corona virus would kill him quickly. And I'm in the prime demographic for dying from it - old men. We're not panicking, not buying extra anything, still going to the gym, but I expect it will be rampant soon. There are already cases in the county. All we can do is try to ride it out. Houston hospitals are already near capacity, so someone will probably have to decide who will be saved and who won't. Better my death than my grandsons'. But cases in children seem to be mild, with a very low mortality rate. The demographic I'm in is the most expendable by far, and the highest mortality rates. But for me, what happens, happens. We'll do the best we can with what we have.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The number of deaths in the US annually from the common flu is very close to the number who die from gunshot wounds, on the order of 30,000. But nobody has ever panicked at those numbers. The mortality rate in Washington state in the US so far is ~20%. At those rates, people do panic, and are. Cans of Lysol spray are going for $45, if they can be found. There is no hand sanitizer anywhere, and soap is becoming scarce. Not to mention dried pasta and other non-perishable foods. The stock market has crashed, and will likely go much lower. So far, the government is fighting the virus by proposing tax cuts. They will cure anything.

    My son has multiple myeloma, and recently underwent a stem cell transplant after his immune system was completely killed, thus greatly impaired ability to fight any infection. He's currently in the hospital for an unknown viral infection. All they can say is that it isn't COVID-9. It looks like he will be okay this time, but the corona virus would kill him quickly. And I'm in the prime demographic for dying from it - old men. We're not panicking, not buying extra anything, still going to the gym, but I expect it will be rampant soon. There are already cases in the county. All we can do is try to ride it out. Houston hospitals are already near capacity, so someone will probably have to decide who will be saved and who won't. Better my death than my grandsons'. But cases in children seem to be mild, with a very low mortality rate. The demographic I'm in is the most expendable by far, and the highest mortality rates. But for me, what happens, happens. We'll do the best we can with what we have.
    I wish you all the best.
    Frankly, I hope what is going on here can provide the right guidance for those involved in public health in the rest of the world. Unfortunately - and inevitably - the economic implications collide with health needs, and it is not always easy to make such draconian decisions.