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  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena
    That includes too many people at the very top levels of US government. Until he was forced to admit that people in the US could actually be infected by Covid-19, the guy at the top in the White House was a vocal "vaccine skeptic."

    Hoping that news of a coronavirus vaccine would shore up the stock market, he has jumped enthusiastically to proclaim a vaccine any minute now. But this has, predictably, confused his followers, who prefer the old paradigm of everything the government does is bad and can't be trusted. Which is also why so many Republican governors are refusing to take the threat seriously, and why, for example, there is such a difference in the current results in Kentucky vs. Tennessee.
    One would hope now is the time for politicians to defer to medical experts and to try to keep politics out of the way, but nope.

    I see Dr. Fauci fact checking in real time.

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  3. #402

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    In a way for all his needle threading I kinda wish Fauci would just lost it and lay out how much we've been lied to. I think Fauci is giving us the soft sell on how long this is going to take. I don't know if that's because he's an optimist or because he's just trying to keep things under control and not get fired. Truthfully the federal government seems to be totally paralyzed and state and local governments are stepping in but it's ridiculous that we have to and have this patchwork solution to a national problem.

    But that's where we are at.

    I feel a sort of horrific double blind experiment is going on. Different cities, states and countries are taking radically different steps. We will be able to track back from first known positive (at least for places that were doing the minimum amount of testing) and see who did worse and who did better. If it's true that Sweden has done nothing whatsoever (something I heard this morning but I haven't confirmed) well I guess they're the control group.

    So gross, so sad. Didn't need to be like this.

    Just on the phone with Quest because the facility my friend works at is confused as to what kind of testing medium they can use for samples. The quest site is pretty unclear and I lied and said I was a doctor to talk to a customer service person, and she was unsure. Like...this shit should have been ironed out weeks ago. But we've chosen to destroy our central government and replace it with........nothing! Madness.

  4. #403

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    brazil is going by goveners and municipalities

    the state i live, we are under lockdown, prohibited from going to the beach. rio is like that . there arnt military tanks, but, the police will kick you off the beach. you are only suposed to go out to the supermarket or pharmacy

    sully, thanks for the info on pnemonia, i guess from what you are saying the shot i got wont work for this virus.

    im understanding about gigs, i get it, im just losing money like everyone else
    " a horrific double blind experiment" , i mean yeah, that is what im getting too...people are trying to dynomite a fly, and, there is this whole nether world of who is raising and picking the food, packing it, trucking or planeing or training it to a warehouse then picked up taken to the super market, put on the shelves etc...yes, i wash anything that comes in the house, but, that is a huge world going on with no reporting on what kind of social distancing and wash hands philosophy is going on there , but, they can patrol the open air beach and kick people off ( yes of course no one should be selling anything on the beach)

    an old colleague of mine died recently from bladder cancer. he told me some intence things about how he was dealt with at the end. it was like everything was an experiment, a blind experiment. he had to be examined horribly , put through a lot and it was eating his savings. he died not long after that , but, he recognised they were just taking shots in the dark with him as a guinea pig .

    i feel like that is happening now, some kind of blind experiments and shots in the dark , but, with desicisans that just obliterate other things...but im sure doing what is told for the most part with some extremly risk calculated few exceptions .i am no rebel with out a cause ...i want to live ( like eddie murphy said in a movie)

  5. #404

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    Gave my 1st video lesson today. Worked out fine.

    Weird, but the world was going practically all-digital anyway. Used to drive me nuts, now I'm glad for it.

    ...as long as it doesn't stay this way forever. Missing real contact with real people in real time. Terribly...

  6. #405

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    Me too.

  7. #406

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    Talking on the phone helps. People are hunkering down and accepting that we're in this for the long haul.

    I was glad to reach my brother today. He's troubled, and we were out of touch. But I was worried, especially when his phone was rejecting calls. But I finally got through...

  8. #407

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    Definitely. FaceTime and Skype is a real help too, good to see faces.

    Anyway the UK has joined the lockdown club finally (reviewed in three weeks.)

  9. #408

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  10. #409

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  11. #410

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    brazil is going by goveners and municipalities

    the state i live, we are under lockdown, prohibited from going to the beach. rio is like that . there arnt military tanks, but, the police will kick you off the beach. you are only suposed to go out to the supermarket or pharmacy
    and here's why:



    a lot of dead people walking

  12. #411

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    no, that happened before the lockdown, and to use that as a put down on brazilian people supporting bolsonaro , is not correct.

    this video is what happened the day the lockdown was put in place

    people down here are doing incredable at staying off the streets

    im watching incredibly beautiful day after day go by and cant go out and enjoy it. why they cant impliment a social distance policy on the beach is beyond me but it is heavy handed . and pretty soon, these powers that be , in the world ,who are making these mass desicians , affecting multi millions, copying the solution of an authoritarian country who lied at first about it and i cant trust them now, dont consider the mental health of those of us they are mandating, they are making a huge mistake.

  13. #412

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos


    no, that happened before the lockdown, and to use that as a put down on brazilian people supporting bolsonaro , is not correct.

    this video is what happened the day the lockdown was put in place

    people down here are doing incredable at staying off the streets

    im watching incredibly beautiful day after day go by and cant go out and enjoy it. why they cant impliment a social distance policy on the beach is beyond me but it is heavy handed . and pretty soon, these powers that be , in the world ,who are making these mass desicians , affecting multi millions, copying the solution of an authoritarian country who lied at first about it and i cant trust them now, dont consider the mental health of those of us they are mandating, they are making a huge mistake.
    you seem beyond redemption. take care.

  14. #413

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    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-london-jpg

  15. #414

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    hahaha djg , im not sure what you mean about "beyond redemtion", but, im just trying to figure this all out ...i mean what is the real dangers of how you can get this disease , how can you prevent it and how you can deal with it if you get it...and how not to go insane about this...?

    its so hard to describe the sadness of seeing a vibrant comunity go barren and the businesses and workers who were making it vibrant with the great little coffee shops and places to buy and a wonderful beach , see their business and livlihood shattered .

    this is starting to be something i havent seen before, and i cant really understand it and cut through what is reality and what is social media hype and hysteria picked up by mainstream news and political leaders

    lets take care of the health care workers , you take care also,

  16. #415

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    this is starting to be something i havent seen before, and i cant really understand it and cut through what is reality and what is social media hype and hysteria picked up by mainstream news and political leaders

    lets take care of the health care workers , you take care also,
    social media hype? this is the part i do not get. don't you receive the news from europe? haven't you heard how italian doctors have to select who is worthy of treatment and who must be left to die in solitude? do you not hear that shit is hitting the fan in spain right now?

    people are dying like flies over here and you constantly complain that you cant go to the beach to see some ass? wtf, dude.

    here's your future. it does not contain a lot of beach:


  17. #416

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    There is an excellent example of the difference between quarantining people and letting them go about their business as before, in the United States: compare Kentucky and Tennessee, two neighboring states. This is from reporting by Mark Summers:

    Both states had their first reported case the same day, March 6. On that day the Republican legislature of Kentucky introduced a bill to limit the power of Democratic Governor Beshears to issue executive orders, but before it could be passed Beshears used that power to declare a state of emergency, freeing up funds and resources to fight Covid-19 (a week before Trump did so, and a day before Gov. Cuomo of NY did so). Beshear issued recommendations on social distancing the next day and began a daily update to reassure the state on actions being taken as well as provide details on the status of the outbreak. Two days after that, he restricted visitations to extended care facilities and prisons. And just five days after the original declaration of emergency, with eight known cases in the state, Beshear instructed every school to close. In the next week, the state ended in-restaurant dining, extended unemployment, and offered free testing to every person in the state—all at Beshear’s direction.

    Meanwhile Tennessee had it’s first case on the same day as Kentucky, and Republican governor Bill Lee did … nothing. As Beshear was closing schools in Kentucky, Lee told the people of his state that there was no reason to close schools or workplaces. Finally, on March 12, Lee declared a state of emergency. And he instructed the schools to close on Friday, March 20.

    The result of these two policies is that the neighboring states are on very different paths. While Kentucky has seen an increase in cases, that increase has been slow. Not only does Kentucky have only 63 identified cases, it has conducted close to a thousand tests. Tennessee now has more than 300 cases resulting from many fewer tests, and it’s on an arc that is growing at a much higher rate. When cases are moving up exponentially, every moment counts, and acting early has huge implications down the road.

    And now our dear leader has indicated that he thinks there is too much social distancing, and he is going to decide whether or not to continue recommending it in 6 days. For him, nothing matters but getting elected. He certainly doesn't care about the people who will never vote for him, but it is also obvious that he doesn't much care about the people for whom he is the second coming. I fear that Dr. Fauci may be fired, since the moron-in-charge can't stand his confusing misstatements and lies to be corrected by people who actually know something.


  18. #417

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena




    The result of these two policies is that the neighboring states are on very different paths. While Kentucky has seen an increase in cases, that increase has been slow. Not only does Kentucky have only 63 identified cases, it has conducted close to a thousand tests. Tennessee now has more than 300 cases resulting from many fewer tests, and it’s on an arc that is growing at a much higher rate. When cases are moving up exponentially, every moment counts, and acting early has huge implications down the road.



    63 vs 300 may seem like super low numbers to most. so it's important to see the math.


  19. #418

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    Political leaders do not respond to possibly false news reports by shutting down their economies and tourism industries.

    No political leader in history has shut down a country because of conspiracies or "social media hype." What is the upside? What does Trump gain, even if he gets to claim a national emergency, by the economy tanking and everything shutting down? Nothing, as can be shown by his hints that he's going to undo all those safety measures at the end of March.

    Political leaders have to be forced into these measures by the governmental health administrations. The leaders weigh those recommendations with every other departmental recommendation, the majority of which are probably to do nothing (at least that is true in the US), and then make a decision that is certain to be unpopular? I don't think that is "responding to hype."

  20. #419

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  21. #420

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    hey djg, you are starting to get over the top now , telling me all i care about is going to the beach ..

    i personaly dont care what you think, im going by just plain logic

    yes, i see what happened in italy , did you see what happened in taiwan? do you get that they are way ahead of communist china, they were taking temperatures at the airport immedietly which was how this thing spread. they went after people sick , agresivly and they have 2 deaths now. why arnt you talking about taiwan? and the world is following the communist china total lockdown method

    ive seen doctor after doctor say fresh air and sun is good, the virus doesnt do well in the sun.what is so dificult at having social distance on a huge outdoor beach , and let the police who are kicking people off now patrol with thier speakers calling for distance on the beach?

    why arent you raising concern for the vast food production world and what is going on behind our eyes to see? why arent you concerned they arnt screening super markets big time, that is the most dangerous place you could be now, because everyone has to go there ?

    i am as hunkered down as you are, except yeah, i take a walk early morning and im going to the studio today and tomorow and ive talked the health history down with the engineer and its just us. ive calculated what is the risk factor where i am at right now and its very low .

    but i can still lament at what happened, yeah, lament i cant see some fine women walking on the beach, you bet im sad about that. and to be honest, if you think this quartentine is for you , you are wrong, its for the health industry so it wont be overwelmed, it wont take the threat away until there is a shot, and that is a long way away. you think we can sustain lockdown for that long? you better find out for yourself what is good for you , and ill find out what works for me.

    but dont partronise me what im sad about , besides the aspect of mental health about being able to walk, im losing the gigs, the money , the contact with people like every one else...if i see that there is heavy handed against the grain logic coming from leaders, ill think for myself

  22. #421

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    Taiwan is successful in dealing with the epidemic because they were prepared. Being prepared means allocating resources BEFORE the pandemic. It's too late once it starts. You can't do what Taiwan does now and expect the same results. Many do not seem to get this simple fact.

    Of course experts were warning about not being prepared for a pandemic like this one for years. But that would've meant spending tax dollars towards a "speculative" future pandemic which rubs many the wrong way.

    There are many out there who instinctively resist erring on the side of caution when that means losing money even when the potential cost is human life.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 03-24-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  23. #422

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    bonsritmos, it may be hard to believe but it’s beautiful weather in the UK atm. So of course I feel it too. I can only imagine how difficult it is in Brazil, plus as musicians we can’t play gigs, and even the joy of playing with others for our own fun is now forbidden. The latency of Skype etc makes that impossible in real time by video call.

    i am willing to tolerate this because I don’t think we have many other options here in the UK. Testing has been limited so AFAIK it’s already too late to go down the South Korea route. But I don’t have to like it. It doesn’t seem like Brazil was on top of it either.

    in other news, Denmark’s lockdown seems to be working but they’ve just extended it to make sure. Maybe the summer will help, but we don’t know.

  24. #423

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena
    There is an excellent example of the difference between quarantining people and letting them go about their business as before, in the United States: compare Kentucky and Tennessee, two neighboring states. This is from reporting by Mark Summers:

    Both states had their first reported case the same day, March 6. On that day the Republican legislature of Kentucky introduced a bill to limit the power of Democratic Governor Beshears to issue executive orders, but before it could be passed Beshears used that power to declare a state of emergency, freeing up funds and resources to fight Covid-19 (a week before Trump did so, and a day before Gov. Cuomo of NY did so). Beshear issued recommendations on social distancing the next day and began a daily update to reassure the state on actions being taken as well as provide details on the status of the outbreak. Two days after that, he restricted visitations to extended care facilities and prisons. And just five days after the original declaration of emergency, with eight known cases in the state, Beshear instructed every school to close. In the next week, the state ended in-restaurant dining, extended unemployment, and offered free testing to every person in the state—all at Beshear’s direction.

    Meanwhile Tennessee had it’s first case on the same day as Kentucky, and Republican governor Bill Lee did … nothing. As Beshear was closing schools in Kentucky, Lee told the people of his state that there was no reason to close schools or workplaces. Finally, on March 12, Lee declared a state of emergency. And he instructed the schools to close on Friday, March 20.

    The result of these two policies is that the neighboring states are on very different paths. While Kentucky has seen an increase in cases, that increase has been slow. Not only does Kentucky have only 63 identified cases, it has conducted close to a thousand tests. Tennessee now has more than 300 cases resulting from many fewer tests, and it’s on an arc that is growing at a much higher rate. When cases are moving up exponentially, every moment counts, and acting early has huge implications down the road.

    And now our dear leader has indicated that he thinks there is too much social distancing, and he is going to decide whether or not to continue recommending it in 6 days. For him, nothing matters but getting elected. He certainly doesn't care about the people who will never vote for him, but it is also obvious that he doesn't much care about the people for whom he is the second coming. I fear that Dr. Fauci may be fired, since the moron-in-charge can't stand his confusing misstatements and lies to be corrected by people who actually know something.

    Thanks for the description of two different reactions to Covid-19, but what I get out of this is that a country should have a strong national strategy, Having each state go its own way seems like a recipe for disaster. Viruses don't stop at state borders. This is not the 18th century.

  25. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Thanks for the description of two different reactions to Covid-19, but what I get out of this is that a country should have a strong national strategy, Having each state go its own way seems like a recipe for disaster. Viruses don't stop at state borders. This is not the 18th century.
    All the state governors (the ones who are responding to this rationally) would agree with you. Unfortunately, in the US, there is no national strategy, let alone a strong one. This [criminally negligent] administration has left it to the governors to deal with this on their own.

  26. #425

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    in other news, Denmark’s lockdown seems to be working but they’ve just extended it to make sure. Maybe the summer will help, but we don’t know.
    The extension was no surprise .. but now the first speculations on how to lift it are seeing the day.

    If we just let the kids go back to school and all go to work then we might be back to square one shortly?


    But so far this continues until easter

  27. #426

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    We have a deeply polarized world with one side being led by religious extremists who think that the end days are near and the other side is led by "woke" extremists who think there are six different genders and that socialism will solve all problems. And in the midst of this divide comes a dangerous pandemic.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  28. #427

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    We have a deeply polarized world with one side being led by religious extremists who think that the end days are near and the other side is led by "woke" extremists who think there are six different genders and that socialism will solve all problems. And in the midst of this divide comes a dangerous pandemic.

    What could possibly go wrong?
    It's interesting that you frame socialism (ie countries like Sweden, Denmark, socialized education and healtcare etc) just as outside the realm of commonsense as religious extremism. But isn't this just the same partizan spin of reality as left calling all republicans Nazi's?

  29. #428

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    It's interesting that you frame socialism (ie countries like Sweden, Denmark, socialized education and healtcare etc) just as outside the realm of commonsense as religious extremism. But isn't this just the same partizan spin of reality as left calling all republicans Nazi's?
    I do not think Sweden and Denmark are socialist.

    Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

  30. #429

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I do not think Sweden and Denmark are socialist.

    Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist
    Does this article seem like a genuine, unbiased linguistic effort to investigate the commonly understood meaning of socialism or an attempt by a conservative columnist to spin the word in a way to help reduce it's political appeal?

  31. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    It's interesting that you frame socialism (ie countries like Sweden, Denmark, socialized education and healtcare etc) just as outside the realm of commonsense as religious extremism. But isn't this just the same partizan spin of reality as left calling all republicans Nazi's?
    The two things you mention education and healthcare can easily be explained with capitalism and profit maximization

    Denmark is a small country with limited natural resources. So our competitiveness comes from well being educated and highly qualified. So restricting education would be against the nations interest. If you got the smarts you can get a a college education. The US is big enough so that no one cares whether Billy in Kentucky ever gets an education despite him obviously being smart.

    As for public general healthcare .. Again it can be argued that tying the workforce to a specific employers health insurance put strains on the agility of the workforce as it can have a tendency to tie people to their workplace despite being unhappy and thus unproductive. Again a consequence of us being small with limited resources.

    Denmark was actually almost paradise on earth in the 60s, but like the rest of the world it's gone down hill since then, but we do have a large public sector and we're have access to education, daycare and healthcare. Anyways in the end the price for this is that 45% of our income goes to taxes.

  32. #431

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    The two things you mention education and healthcare can easily be explained with capitalism and profit maximization

    Denmark is a small country with limited natural resources. So our competitiveness comes from well being educated and highly qualified. So restricting education would be against the nations interest. If you got the smarts you can get a a college education. The US is big enough so that no one cares whether Billy in Kentucky ever gets an education despite him obviously being smart.

    As for public general healthcare .. Again it can be argued that tying the workforce to a specific employers health insurance put strains on the agility of the workforce as it can have a tendency to tie people to their workplace despite being unhappy and thus unproductive. Again a consequence of us being small with limited resources.

    Denmark was actually almost paradise on earth in the 60s, but like the rest of the world it's gone down hill since then, but we do have a large public sector and we're guaranteed education, daycare and healthcare. The price for this is that 45% of our income goes to taxes.
    I'm not starting a socialism vs capitalism debate. My statement was against equating a common interpretation of the word socialism (an interpretation which you also seem to agree based on your inclusion of Denmark above) with religious extremism in terms of it's place in the political spectrum.

  33. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I'm not starting a socialism vs capitalism debate. My statement was against equating a common interpretation of the word socialism (an interpretation which you also seem to agree based on your post above) with religious extremism in terms of it's place in the political spectrum.
    I'm not looking to start a political debate either ..
    Last edited by Lobomov; 03-24-2020 at 06:05 PM.

  34. #433

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    When I visited Denmark in the 80's it seemed like a place where Capitalism was done right. People there seemed content.

    When I visited Czechoslovakia in the 80's (still behind the iron curtain at the time) I saw the epic failure of Socialism. People there seemed crestfallen.

    Capitalism brings us things like Gibson guitars (which judging by some of the anti-Gibson venom found on this forum from time to time may not be the best poster boy for capitalism in any case), Fender guitars, Smartphones, etc..

  35. #434

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    When I visited Denmark in the 80's it seemed like a place where Capitalism was done right. People there seemed content.

    When I visited Czechoslovakia in the 80's (still behind the iron curtain at the time) I saw the epic failure of Socialism. People there seemed crestfallen.

    Capitalism brings us things like Gibson guitars (which judging by some of the anti-Gibson venom found on this forum from time to time may not be the best poster boy for capitalism in any case), Fender guitars, Smartphones, etc..

    If you believe that social democracy as implemented in countries like Denmark is the right version of capitalism, then we are in agreement.
    The word socialism has a range of interpretations. On the one end it refers to the regimes like Venezuela or old Eastern Block. On the other hand it means socialist policies within capitalist democracies. Although technically the first meaning might be the correct one, people generally mean the second interpretation when they talk about political parties/positions within capitalist countries. I was certainly referring to the second meaning.

  36. #435

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    Communism and socialism are different things outside the United States..

  37. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    If you believe that social democracy as implemented in countries like Denmark is the right version of capitalism, then we are in agreement.
    The word socialism has a range of interpretations. On the one end it refers to the regimes like Venezuela or old Eastern Block. On the other hand it means socialist policies within capitalist democracies. Although technically the first meaning might be the correct one, people generally mean the second interpretation when they talk about political parties/positions within capitalist countries. I was certainly referring to the second meaning.
    Some of my Bernie Bro friends seem to think that believing in things like police and fire departments means you like "socialism". What nonsense. In regard to the Nordic Capitalism, there are things they do right (healthcare and education do come to mind). We probably pay the same percentage in taxes that they do in the US in the aggregate (when you add State taxes, Federal taxes, payroll taxes, gas taxes, alcohol taxes, sales taxes and property taxes it may even exceed the levels of taxation in the Nordic Countries), and we get less for it as there are many forces (from both sides of the aisle) feeding (looting?) off the trough of government spending.

    Now when you start calling for a wealth tax (pure theft, IMO), you have crossed the line from Nordic Capitalism into Eastern bloc Socialism. And I find my Bernie Bro friends as intolerant as my friends on the religious right in any discussion. Both sides think they are right, everyone else is wrong and only they have the answers. I stand by my equating the far left and the far right in my earlier analysis. If you are a Sanders supporter and somehow you think you are better than a Trump/Pence supporter, I am going to disagree with you.

    Consensus is the best way to actually get things done. And we have little of that. So we will not have a unified approach to the Coronavirus. Luckily, Pandemics do go away eventually. I suspect the harm to the jazz community from this will be felt harder and longer than most.

    I have had a good run as a professional jazz musician. I am in a good enough place financially to retire if I have to. Many of my Jazz musician pals are going to have a tough time moving forward. I find that sad.

  38. #437

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    So it's "I got mine so screw all y'all"?

  39. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Some of my Bernie Bro friends seem to think that believing in things like police and fire departments means you like "socialism". What nonsense. In regard to the Nordic Capitalism, there are things they do right (healthcare and education do come to mind). We probably pay the same percentage in taxes that they do in the US in the aggregate (when you add State taxes, Federal taxes, payroll taxes, gas taxes, alcohol taxes, sales taxes and property taxes it may even exceed the levels of taxation in the Nordic Countries), and we get less for it as there are many forces (from both sides of the aisle) feeding (looting?) off the trough of government spending.

    Now when you start calling for a wealth tax (pure theft, IMO), you have crossed the line from Nordic Capitalism into Eastern bloc Socialism. And I find my Bernie Bro friends as intolerant as my friends on the religious right in any discussion. Both sides think they are right, everyone else is wrong and only they have the answers. I stand by my equating the far left and the far right in my earlier analysis. If you are a Sanders supporter and somehow you think you are better than a Trump/Pence supporter, I am going to disagree with you.

    Consensus is the best way to actually get things done. And we have little of that. So we will not have a unified approach to the Coronavirus. Luckily, Pandemics do go away eventually. I suspect the harm to the jazz community from this will be felt harder and longer than most.

    I have had a good run as a professional jazz musician. I am in a good enough place financially to retire if I have to. Many of my Jazz musician pals are going to have a tough time moving forward. I find that sad.
    I don't fully agree with your political/economic views but I find your attitude towards the current state of political conflict healthy.

  40. #439

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    what a lock down in an (otherwise bustling) major usa city looks like



    cheers

  41. #440

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    what a lock down in an (otherwise bustling) major usa city looks like



    cheers
    Maybe you should send this to London Breed - she seems unconvinced ;-)

  42. #441

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    Maybe you should send this to London Breed - she seems unconvinced ;-)
    I live in San Francisco. I have seen groups of young people violating social distancing in Golden Gate Park (playing sports, having picnics etc.) and other places. The video only shows the deserted commercial areas. Mayor Breed has good reason to be concerned. You cannot quarantine people in a free society to great effect. Italy has also had similar problems with an even stronger lockdown.

    This virus is going to spread. The lockdowns may slow it, but it is coming. Those with underlying medical conditions or those over 65 need to be VERY careful. I think a lot of people are going to die in the USA over the next few months. We are in the calm before the storm.

    That video is a bit misleading, IMO

  43. #442

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    Eire, or cool? It's like locals have the place to ourselves for once;


  44. #443

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    Your recollections are spot on DJG !!!
    Last edited by JC Stylles; 03-24-2020 at 10:48 PM.

  45. #444

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    It's unrealistic, I fear, to think self-quarantine will work long-term. Too many wild cards, too many people with cabin fever and/or concocting schemes to clandestinely make some survival cash. How many people can be controlled in the long run? Let's be real.

    Across the street from my building is a park with one ungated entrance. Yeah, there's a (pathetically miniscule) sign about practicing social distancing. There's also adults running their dogs around, and---more significantly----kids playing every manner of ball game. Defiant? Oblivious? Stupid? Of course. But they won't stop unless forced. Such enforcement will tear the police force at the seams. And Philly, to begin with, is a poorly managed city, with IMO a lame, do-nothing mayor.

    I'm sorry to be Chicken Little, but I can't see self-containment working long-term. And I pray that I'm wrong...

  46. #445

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    You make some great points BONSRITMOS, but it is truly anyone's guess right now. Mitch retired a year ago, and the live streaming that was implemented a few years back brings 50% of customers from Europe- travelers right to Smalls doorway, wanting to experience everything in person, in 3D. Let's all hope it's not history and gets to live on again another day, as has happened before when Smalls was shut for a short period and run as a Brazilian Club that didn't work...and can move onto another chapter...but who knows...life is short, sometimes Jazzlife is shorter...and I don't just mean as in Wayne...
    Last edited by JC Stylles; 03-24-2020 at 11:15 PM.

  47. #446

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    Let's hope you're right. A lot of us have long histories with Smalls.

    We're all hoping against hope...

  48. #447

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    You cannot quarantine people in a free society to great effect. Italy has also had similar problems with an even stronger lockdown.
    The news tonight is reporting that Wuhan is just now starting to allow residents out as the virus seems to have subsided. 3 months (right?) they locked down. I don't see any way people here in the US will do that, until it's obvious it's too late to stall it. The best hope I think we have right now, is widespread testing to make sure people aren't walking around infecting others. Because we're seeing there are people who are simply refusing to stay inside.

    The truth about America, is we are full of people who have become to equate freedom with selfishness.

  49. #448

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    Hey , Christian , yeah beautiful days make it hard...nothing wrong with being sad about that.

    JC Styles, good luck , hope there will be light at the end of the tunnel. It's tough to see New York become the epicenter. And New York badly needs Bobbie Hutcherson style jazz .

  50. #449

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    Just my two cents on socialism.

    i heard a couple of scandanavian leaders stress they weren't democratic socialism.

    I separate a social safety net , social programs , social help , from "critical theory " socialism. I welcome social safety net programs, I cringe at critical theory socialism.

    yes, they aren't Marx, they are Marx to Gramsci to Lenin, to Marcuse to Adorno to Mao to Fannon, etc , using Freud to psycho analyse western society.

    it gets profound when you discover that huge amounts of militant feminist rhetoric , militant black rhetoric, militant gay rhetoric , is cut and paste from Marxist doctrine. Or early Soviet Union parameters , or Frankfurt School philosophy . Read Adornos papers on jazz to discover the folly of critical theory .

    Bernie is a critical theory socialist , for example. Yes, he isn't Marxist, he doesn't support Marxist dictatorships , but he supports the ideology that produces those kind of dictatorship. When it gets to the nitty gritty, socialists spoon with Marxists.

    and that is the difference to be on the lookout for . Are they about social programs , or , critical theory socialism ?

  51. #450

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    So when the social order breaks down, and food is really scarce and with thousands dead and dying, who is prepared for when those people that refused to prepare or comply come to your door looking to take food and resources? Will you invite them in to share, or do you have the means to defend yourselves? Do you think the police will save you? In US, you have the right to own guns. Intruders will have them too. Have a nice day.