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  1. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by rNeil
    Economists are such highly trained authorities ... yet ... not one can out guess the US economy two years in a row. No financial wizards ever beat the average of the stock market over time.

    It's been shown in several recent studies that the more "expert" a person is, the less likely they are to be able to predict behavior in their field.

    Why? The more buried in a subject one is, the narrower they view their subject, the fewer factors they see as "key" for predictions.

    In reality, a group of generalists score better for predictions apparently because they look to wider factors and are not tied to past behaviors and circumstances.

    Add to this a wise comment: "When humans stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in Anything."

    We are in an era when it has become fashionable to believe in the fallacy of The Wise. That some individuals or group possess a wisdom that gives them a greater right to make decisions on our behalf, and that said group should be considered above reproach.

    And so I see so many comments about "I believe in Science!" or "Don't you believe in science?"

    All scientists are first humans. With all the messiness that entails. Including the narrow mindedness and back-biting and bickering over professional status that have always been part of the trade. Because they are no better nor worse than other humans.

    Nor are they wiser. They are only more knowledgeable in a specific field. This does not include proof of greater knowledge about society or greater wisdom or anything. Just knowledge in one specific area.

    So why on earth would someone blindly "believe in science!"

    "Science" can and has been used for all sorts of things. And scientists themselves have naturally been all over the map as humans.

    In my 66 years, I've seen an amazing number of predictions by scientists, economists, politicians, futurists, you name it. Very few have even had some small connection with what eventually transpired.

    None of the predictions for our living conditions ever included anything actually like cell phones, for a simple example. At a "con", a SciFi author asked about the roughest thing SciFi authors face pulled out his phone and held it up. And said no SciFi author saw this thing coming, and when it did, every book they'd already written looked ancient.

    Right. Let's look at some of the major themes trumpeted in the press during my life.The world population was going to expand and we were going to face mass starvation across the planet by 1980. Oil was going to disappear. We were all going into an ice age.

    All these have been touted by Great Scientists and The Wise. Spoken in stentorian tones at UN sessions. All, in the end, bogus. And not one predictor of Bogusity ever had their career damaged over it. Even if like economists, they blow it time after time.

    As to the US economy being so destroyed for average people, that's a joke. If it's so bad here, then why on earth was it so attractive to people from other countries? Hmmm.

    Statistically right before the economy was clamped over this C19 crud, we've had the highest employment rates for minorities in US history. The fastest rise in wages for the lower third of society in many years. The most growth of small businesses.

    I've lived by my small business for 40+ years, I do have both observational and direct personal experience of this.

    But I realize those living in theoretical memes snort at such stupidity. Whatever.

    I live in reality. Humans are messy, often venal, sometimes callous, and sometimes breathtakingly generous. Diversity is a natural part of living as no two of us are ever exactly the same.

    And wisdom is maybe more rare now than any time of my life.



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    OK, so you are a postmodernist.

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  3. #852

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    the statement i just made has absolutly no ideoligy or isms in it . point it out. if a strategy is wrong its just wrong

    if people think looking at that truth and it is some kind of ideology, maybe they need to look in the mirror about where they are coming from

    just because i hate marxism doent mean its clouding my judgement on what is dramaticly wrong with what is going down

    what is going down with the lockdown is a failure
    everyone has an ideology. They may not realise it... or they may know and present it as common sense or fact.

  4. #853
    Economics is very complex. Not everything is quantifiable , measurable and linear, but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about the economies of things. By the way, there are a lot of other "economies" besides just monetary. I think most people conflate "economics" with the stock market and day trading or something. Seriously, that's what it is to 99% of people, especially people who rail against wall street etc.

    There's also social capital , political capital , and all other kinds of intangible influence that has a great effect on things.

    In the states, the law of unintended consequences has created a perfect storm in politics and values surrounding the virus and the disease associated with it. The stimulus bill, which was passed here, gives a lot of money for COVID-19 for hospitals etc. I don't think anyone is questioning that it was needed. The unintended consequence of that has played out in a pretty crazy way here , which is directly tied to multiple "economies", and not just financial.

    To good intentions, hospitals are furloughing workers who aren't directly doing COVID in a lot of cases. Many elective procedures are being canceled. People simply aren't coming in for other illnesses a lot of the time. There are disastrous financial ramifications for the very institutions and personnel who are desperately trying to save the lives and do everything they can to make the world better.

    There's a financial incentive, and indeed it's perfectly legal , to classify anyone with a COVID symptom as a "COVID". There's a similar incentive re ventilators etc. There's a moral imperative according to Hippocratic oath and common decency, fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, a responsibility to employees and to patients to do one thing: to declare any illness that you possibly can under the law as being "COVID". This isn't only a conservative conspiracy theory. Indeed, again, any doctor or hospital director has a MORAL obligation to do so, and they aren't necessarily breaking any laws or doing anything overtly corrupt. The money itself is a lot of the problem. It should simply be provided on a way that doesn't screw with data.

    Again, this produces a significant, data-destroying, panic inducing, side effect of good intentions on all sides - to save peoples lives. The result of some hospitals being under capacity in both workforce and patients can only produce one outcome when coupled with the way this law is structured. They must do what they can stay open, save lives and support a workforce.

    This specific issue isn't a moral problem, and honestly, it's not even POLITICAL, with one side being to blame. It's an unintended ECONOMIC pressure which is destroying our ability to gather any meaningful data. Until the economic problem is solved and the incentive to report things in this confusing way is removed, we won't be able to really get at what this problem actually IS in a meaningful way. Again, when I say "economic", I'm not talking only about money or corporations etc.

    Doctors and scientists need to be free of the consequences of the way the rules currently work, so that they can do their job. By the way, it's nearly impossible to die without displaying any "COVID" symptoms. That's not conspiracy AGAINST hospitals and doctors . Again, the law is working AGAINST doctors and hospitals. The problem needs to be fixed, for THEIR sake.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 05-12-2020 at 02:00 PM.

  5. #854

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    My state is going to reopen the way it chooses. Why not worry about your own back yard?
    Think globally, act locally.
    The state of Nevada isn't going to reopen the way it chooses. I assume you have seen the statements by the Governor versus that idiotic mayor of Las Vegas. That right there raises the question of what is one's 'own backyard'? (your actual backyard, your town, your county, your state,,,,_).

    My point is that there isn't consensus between citizens or politicians and thus there will be conflict.

  6. #855

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Absolutely. It's issues like this that really irritate me. I've heard ZERO talk about actually solving problems like this. Things which can't be somehow politicized one way or another gain very little traction.

    John Campbell has talked about ventilation at different points, "I certainly hope they're opening the windows". He wasn't even talking about nursing homes, but that has to be a serious factor in the "petri dish factor" when we talk about nursing homes. My first thought was, "Holy crap. None of our windows even OPEN anymore."

    Fresh air ventilation has mostly been engineered OUT of building design for the last 60 years, especially in the United States and especially in hot southern megacities which didn't even EXIST before modern HVAC. Modern buildings have VERY few windows, and most of them don't open. They don't open very easily if they do, and they provide very little actual crossflow ventilation. Buildings just aren't designed that way at all now.

    Modern buildings -like most nursing homes - are absolutely worst-case scenario for ventilation and airflow, the way that he's talking about. It may be difficult for someone to understand who lives in a more moderate climate and in an older country, where buildings are actually old enough to predate modern HVAC design.

    Anyway, again, I think access to fresh airflow is a very real and serious problem in modern society (one in which much of the third world may have us beat), but I also think there's about a 0% chance of this real problem ever being addressed or solved, even in a crisis like we have now. It simply doesn't allow for the kind of traction needed in the political blame games which apparently are the only things driving anything in 2020 America. Speaking of which, where are the vitamins D PSA's anyway?
    What's happening in nursing homes will be swept under the rug. My mother passed away in one in Jan 2019 at age 89. She was gone mentally and physically.

  7. #856

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    The state of Nevada isn't going to reopen the way it chooses. I assume you have seen the statements by the Governor versus that idiotic mayor of Las Vegas. That right there raises the question of what is one's 'own backyard'? (your actual backyard, your town, your county, your state,,,,_).

    My point is that there isn't consensus between citizens or politicians and thus there will be conflict.
    We're going to reopen the way we choose. The growing consensus here is to not reopen casinos at all and I agree. I'll take Sisolak over airhead Newsom any day. No offense.
    Tesla is dealing with a shady Nevada politician who embezzled funding for Medicaid in the past. We're in desperate need of non-gambling related business but we don't need Tesla.
    We do things democratically much of the time in Nevada. Everyone's opinion matters- if you're a resident.
    I'm retired and I'm not working. Nevada is going to be devastated economically.
    Who's going to tell us when and if to reopen? Go home. There's going to be nothing here except ugly mansions at a discount.

  8. #857

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    The state of Nevada isn't going to reopen the way it chooses. I assume you have seen the statements by the Governor versus that idiotic mayor of Las Vegas. That right there raises the question of what is one's 'own backyard'? (your actual backyard, your town, your county, your state,,,,_).

    My point is that there isn't consensus between citizens or politicians and thus there will be conflict.
    Winners come and go. Losers built Las Vegas and we'll build it again when the time is right. It won't be anytime soon so don't hold your breath.

  9. #858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Winners come and go. Losers built Las Vegas and we'll build it again when the time is right. It won't be anytime soon so don't hold your breath.
    So, by your own admission, you are a loser.

    No offense.

  10. #859

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    The thing about science that makes it reliable is that while anyone can claim anything about anything, science is about repeatability. If a scientist makes a claim, many other scientists in that field will check his results, and publish their results. Science is based on evidence, not ideology, and an ideologist will get slapped down quickly. If one's work can't be reproduced by others, it's soon worthless. Engineering is similar, if a design fails, it's abandoned or changed so that it works. Science demands that theories and treatments be subjected to scrutiny before being foisted on the public. If scientists don't know about something, you can believe that they don't know. If they say they know something, you can bet that the subject has been tested widely, by multiple scientists in multiple locations. Opinions do not matter, only results do. That's why science's reaction to the corona virus is mostly, "We don't know, we're working on it". Politicians are generally terrified to say that.

  11. #860

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    I think even with the experience of past epidemics, noone really knew what to expect from this new virus, or how best to fight it. Different solutions were attempted in different places, lockdowns being the most common. Governments everywhere were puzzled by what happened in Italy and Spain, New York, etc. This, the initial uncontrolled spreading of the virus causing thousands of deaths, possibly leading to millions, has been the only fact the scientific and political establishment had to work with so far. So of course they tried to plan for the worst case scenario, and, most of them, put human life first.

    Now different facts are beginning to emerge as well. The devastating economic and psychological lockdown results, the tragic situation lockdowns can cause in the third world, a better understanding of the disease. In more of a long term, some of the dysfunctional parts of our society and culture are now blaringly showing. Also these restrictions on individual freedom, choice and rights, inconceivable until only a few months back and only accepted cause of the epidemic, will leave their mark on democratic societies of the 21st century. Hopefully not a completely bad mark though.

    And lastly, music, and jazz.. devastated. And I see no fast way out of this, we'll have to weather it for quite a while..

  12. #861

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    Hmmm ... a rather naive view of science. Somehow divorced from being Human.

    I've watched enough science battles over the years that were total scorched earth campaigns, tearing each other apart personally and professionally.

    As an autistic, I'm also aware of the science behind behavior mod practices. Which are The Standard Practice for training autistic kids in many places. They're based on Science so you can't argue with them as far as most schools are concerned.

    But when those studies are examined, most were one "researcher" working with one to five kids doing all their own recording of "results".

    Wow. Yea, that's really awesome work.

    In the Ideal, science is great stuff. We certainly can't get by without it. But to assume all scientists are gentle ethical people who never have ulterior or self-interested motives is to assume a fantasy.

    Scientists are human. With all the messiness that comes with that. Jealously and professional rivalries are legendary within that profession.

    Battles between scientific institutions are also not unknown. Egos and budget needs and personal piques are as common among scientists as anyone else.

    Which makes them no more nor less valuable than any other human.

    And knowledge and wisdom are not synonymous. Very knowledgeable people can have no wisdom, and very wise people may not have great knowledge of something. Like everything else, humans are all over the map.

    I must say, this is the first time I've ever been called postmodern. Perhaps that was sarcastic ... lol

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  13. #862

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    I'd call political science an oxymoron. Same thing as a Techno DJ.

  14. #863

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    I've watched enough science battles over the years that were total scorched earth campaigns
    Name one

  15. #864

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    Quote Originally Posted by rNeil
    Hmmm ... a rather naive view of science.
    Scratching my head on that one. Sgosnell is on point in that science is about repeatability. Ethics and egos causing a bias are eventually washed away if the theory can't be repeated and confirmed with additional evidence.

    Science based on a sample of five, that is certainly not going to be accepted as sound science at least not by the scientific community maybe by the educational community though, unfortunately.

  16. #865

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    The thing about science that makes it reliable is that while anyone can claim anything about anything, science is about repeatability. If a scientist makes a claim, many other scientists in that field will check his results, and publish their results. Science is based on evidence, not ideology, and an ideologist will get slapped down quickly. If one's work can't be reproduced by others, it's soon worthless.
    Climate science has showed us how off that claim is....

  17. #866

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    christian, the statement i made that stevebol mentioned isms , had no ideology in it . on an earliar post i said with due respect to hep , who had capped on me, and is in china and defending china, that i just dont like marxism and the ccp , and explained why. i want to be bold and make no mistake to anyone listening to me about this , and, that is exactly where i am coming from. its not anti chinese, anti asian , its not even saying that anyone shouldnt do business with them, or the nba and nike amass fortunes in china. my huge point is that its foolish to follow their strategy based on exactly who the ccp is and their huge record of dishonesty and brutal solutions.

    i dont know if you could call being anti marxist an ideology , is anti nazi and ideology? if it is then for sure i have a large anti marxist anti nazi ideology .

    but i suggest to you , that , i have tried to step back from my ideologistic leanings to the left , and as soon as i did that, im in rarified fresh air with whole new perspective , not tied to anyone , so i have a much more open mind to ideas from either side and being able to see each sides flaws more clearly

    the whole solution , lockdown, from the get go , is mired in a political desicion and ideolgy by the WHO's refusal to acknowledge taiwan and their wonderful success , fanning the flames of fear at what happened in italy , the country i live in , the goveners and mayors and media, all state the WHO as the example to follow the lockdown . the WHO praising venezuela absolutly seals the deal they are going down a path that favors ideology . there is no sane reason to praise venezuela , it is absoultlly mind boggling .and certainly tipped me off because i know this dynamic too well

    gees , if it worked i wouldnt be saying a word. its failed miserably by any stretch of the imagination . that they would try to abstractly look at grafts and flatten curves and tell us its working in the face of the death rates we are seeing in heavy lockdown cities that are hotspots , only points to the cover ups for the huge unpreparedness that all the mayors , governers and federal levals are at now.

    sgonell , the problem now is that there are so many conflicting experts and scientists on this virus now. it is extraordinarily confusing with huge amounts of misinformation.

    im extremly perplexed why, after the real fact statistic that around the world 50% of death rates from corona virus , are in nursing homes , but , on the news on both sides , all are talking about death rates , but not in any way a strategy to really address nursing homes. i mean its got to be huge and agresive but i dont see a peep on either side. that tells me they think they are dispensable . or , why after that devastating statistic arnt they talking about it big time? are deaths just a political football to toss around but not really do what is nescasary ?

    and no huge strategy and guide lines for most of the other 50% who have preconditions.

    they are arguing about trillions , but a billion would set pre conditioned poor people , and of color who are in the most trouble , if they wanted to , into a controlled hotel situation that with the right quarentine , higeine and cleanliness by the staffs , should save most of them from getting the virus. and dramaticly cut the death rate. isnt that what everyone is screaming about ?!!!

    these seem like just plain simple logic to get to the point. but it seems like these trillions are going to be cut and devided up and pocketed by both sides for their own purposes and agendas.

    its just that simple to me , look for plenty of more failure , its happening where i live too , exactly the same , bs and rip offs

  18. #867

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    ....gees just hearing dr oz on fox talking about nursing homes , with the wrong numbers 35% , counter to most reports ive read...but, at least he is talking about it

    but not the right solution , not agresive enough

    and they are talking about the pre conditioned seperating themselves and quarenteening themselves

    hope its acted on, words mean nothing without action

    these are the most important subjects if they want to cut death rates

    at least they brought it up...some things have given me hope it might shift gears and do it right

  19. #868

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    How anyone can make any informed global/national/local decisions about a totally unknown virus is beyond me. Avoiding it is the only way to prevent infection? If you don't know who has it, how can you avoid it? We don't even know what it is.

  20. #869

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    Dr Oz is a quack. Pure quack. His only motivation is money, one way or another. I would never believe anything he said. The people who are actually researching and treating this virus are not intentionally putting out misinformation. They report what they see. The problem is that the virus causes so many different symptoms, and there is not yet enough knowledge of how it works and what it does. This guy seems to know what he's doing, and seems to present the issues honestly. I'm not a doctor, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it seems to me that he's being straight about it. He has a long series of videos on YouTube, reporting as things are learned. To me, it's a terrifying video. I don't plan to go out into the public for a long time.

  21. #870

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Just so that isn't misinterpreted, that is simply a hope. I think the economy needs to get back up and running and those like myself should shelter in place... if they can afford to shelter in place. I can as I'm retired.
    I think we should tap the Mississippi River and send water to the southwest as Pat Mulroy suggested. She's the former water witch of Nevada.

    The water czar who reshaped Colorado River politics (Unite and conquer) — High Country News – Know the West

    Why wait for disaster? The Great Lakes is a virtual endless supply of fresh water. It's only a matter of time before a drought sends 40 million people in the southwest packing to look for greener pastures.

  22. #871

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    sgosnell , great youtube , for sure he is absolutly saying if you have pre conditions , that is what pushes it into serious territory. he stated several pre conditions that are very vulnerable to the corona virus.

    and yes, oz very well may be a hack and fox is muck raking , yet , it gives me hope that they can reach their audience with the very relevant information i stated he said. surly you arnt doubting that. its what the youtube you brought in is saying also. so , im happy to see this information about who is dying more from this disease at a higher rate be spread anywhere , whether cnn , who is as muck raking as fox , im going back and forth between the two until they take it off my cable, and cnn is just as bad.

    and each day now, if you are trying to stay informed, information is dribbling out ever more that nursing home people are huge amounts of the deaths from corona virus and most of the other deaths are from pre conditions.

    seriously, does anyone on here doubt that information now ?

    your youtube also stated about lots of things that they just dont know now . and here is the crux, with so many variables, you have to look at the fundimentals that are revealing themselves as the truth and what is that?

    you cant count on testing to make a strategy, it has 80% acuracy, so so many people have had this disease that arnt on the radar, someone exactly like me , if what i had was the corona . which i cant get tested for right now, so , how can they have acurate pictures of what is happening through testing?

    the hard fundimental is that who is dying in the overcrowded hospitals and nursing homes is pre conditioned by an overwelming number .

    why arnt they throwing money at shoring up the nursing homes? trillions are on the chopping block, who is going to get that money? the direct actual proof that if you are preconditioned you are the real target for this disease is who should be taking the most radical precautions and should be getting the most help , and should be getting huge amount of special guidelines .

    sgosnell , that is you. i dont see people like you getting the attention and care you need to defend yourself better. im 70, but my lungs are zingy, me heart rate hovers at 60 beats a minute, except for arthiritis discs , my health is fantastic. i may have had this and i intend to find out, im not pre conditioned. but you have stated you are preconditioned and i beleive people like you are getting the short shift in all this

    i believe its a giant disservice to people like you being lumped into all of us with no real fault lines of the radical differance from your situation and the people who are healthy and will get this disease and get over it with no problem which is what is happening in the absolute majority of cases.

    im horrified that people who are poor and people of color who are poor who die more and men die more, and who live in dense populated apartments in inner cities , dont have an option to go into hotels the governments will prop up and help the economy and give these people half of a chance

    because you cant stop it , that is what i get from seeing all the information. its too stealth , it can slip past any of these strategies, so , the basic fundimental has to be shore up the most vulnerable so you really have the actual chance to cut down deaths and not overwelm the hospitals. its reall that simple

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1188190.shtml
    meanwhile, the country with the best record, taiwan, has implied threats of violence shot at it from the ccp and its propaganda outlits. their state run paper is actualy threatening violence to taiwan if they get accepted by the wha the advisory board of the WHO.

    man people, i mean you tell me , wtf is going on here

  23. #872

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    Article, new in 'Nature' and the last name in the credits is Valter Longo, a leader in longevity research out of USC.

    If you have an interest in cancer check out Prof. Thomas Seyfried.

    This is about vitamin C and fasting-mimicking diets as cancer therapy:

    Synergistic effect of fasting-mimicking diet and vitamin C against KRAS mutated cancers | Nature Communications

  24. #873

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    This might be worth a look;


  25. #874

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    Something more ethereal: my town under lockdown.


  26. #875

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal
    The state of Nevada isn't going to reopen the way it chooses. I assume you have seen the statements by the Governor versus that idiotic mayor of Las Vegas. That right there raises the question of what is one's 'own backyard'? (your actual backyard, your town, your county, your state,,,,_).

    My point is that there isn't consensus between citizens or politicians and thus there will be conflict.
    Don't worry. Nevada is doing what California tells it to do. No smoking in Casinos, out of control housing prices.
    I don't believe in gambling as a means of subsidizing the arts anymore. I used to. Time to quit gambling. I'm saving a lot of money.

  27. #876

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Something more ethereal: my town under lockdown.


    Must have filmed this at the crack of dawn for full apocalyptic effect before most of the locals had gotten out of bed. Nicely shot/edited.

  28. #877

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    I just went to the Fox News web site and this was their lead... OFF WITH A BANG: Shootings, MAGA boat parades mark start to Memorial Day as US adapts to post-pandemic culture

    I've run out of words.

  29. #878

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    Quote Originally Posted by redcap
    Must have filmed this at the crack of dawn for full apocalyptic effect before most of the locals had gotten out of bed. Nicely shot/edited.
    That is what downtown Ottawa has looked like for the past two months. Things are opening up now we are down to about 2 cases a day.

  30. #879

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    I just went to the Fox News web site and this was their lead... OFF WITH A BANG: Shootings, MAGA boat parades mark start to Memorial Day as US adapts to post-pandemic culture

    I've run out of words.
    "Post pandemic culture" yeah right.... Sadly, I think the US is well on its way to being a failed state. The embedded plutocracy and political class, lack of social solidarity, a banana republic administration, cultural narcissism associated with years of "rights talk", gerrymandering elections, bloated military budgets, growing religious fundamentalism, crumbling infrastructure, a media bought and sold to political and economic interests, self appointed militias intimidating elected representatives. It just goes on and on and on. I hope to god this is not the future for the rest of the world but I don't see any instrument to get the US out of its current predicament.

  31. #880

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberoo
    "Post pandemic culture" yeah right.... Sadly, I think the US is well on its way to being a failed state. The embedded plutocracy and political class, lack of social solidarity, a banana republic administration, cultural narcissism associated with years of "rights talk", gerrymandering elections, bloated military budgets, growing religious fundamentalism, crumbling infrastructure, a media bought and sold to political and economic interests, self appointed militias intimidating elected representatives. It just goes on and on and on. I hope to god this is not the future for the rest of the world but I don't see any instrument to get the US out of its current predicament.

  32. #881

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    Well, I want to spread some good news during these Times.
    All the Gigs we would've played with my Band have been cancelled, so we decided quite fast that we'd have to do something about it. We got together and within two days recorded a 20 Song record. It's been mixed over the last weeks, and this saturday we'll Release our "underground swingtapes"
    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-img_20200525_132632_831-jpg

    Paul

  33. #882

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberoo
    "Post pandemic culture" yeah right.... Sadly, I think the US is well on its way to being a failed state. The embedded plutocracy and political class, lack of social solidarity, a banana republic administration, cultural narcissism associated with years of "rights talk", gerrymandering elections, bloated military budgets, growing religious fundamentalism, crumbling infrastructure, a media bought and sold to political and economic interests, self appointed militias intimidating elected representatives. It just goes on and on and on. I hope to god this is not the future for the rest of the world but I don't see any instrument to get the US out of its current predicament.
    The right said the same thing when Obama was elected back in 2008. Trump will be gone by January. While there will be a lot of judicial appointment that will remain for decades, that will be about it. One only sees a future failed state if they believe the USA was all the 'great' to begin with. We were not.

  34. #883

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    Concerts start again at the Backed Potato... the new but not normal...

    Calendar | The Baked Potato

  35. #884

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    Some stuff you might want to know if you or yours are afflicted (scroll down, watch the video):

    https://covid19criticalcare.com

  36. #885

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    - "We are learning while we are sailing."

    - "And now that I have faced death, my tolerance levels for nonsense and bullshit have gone down even more than before. So, I continue calmly and enthusiastically, although more selectively than before my illness."

    (From: ‘Finally, a virus got me.’ Scientist who fought Ebola and HIV reflects on facing death from COVID-19 | Science | AAAS )



  37. #886

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    The politicization of the pandemic is terrible. Wearing or nor wearing a mask is a key symbol in the culture war: GOP's no-mask caucus: 'Can you smell through that mask?' - CNNPolitics

    "It's part of the dehumanization of the children of God. You're participating in it by wearing a mask."

    Does anyone here speak Southern and can tell me what he's trying to say?

  38. #887

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    I don't speak Southern (whatever that means) but I think they are saying that they want to smell you which is odd because they can do that with a mask on.

  39. #888

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    I don't speak Southern (whatever that means) but I think they are saying that they want to smell you which is odd because they can do that with a mask on.
    As for that, I think they are claiming that masks are useless because you can smell things when you wear one. Health experts say otherwise, but these guys hate experts.

  40. #889

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    When I hear the phase I can't help but flash back to Cormac McCarthy's terrifying book: Child of God - Wikipedia:

    In the first part of the novel, a group of unidentified narrators from Sevierville describe Lester to the audience and frame him within that community's mythology and historical consciousness. The second and third parts of the novel increasingly leave culture and community behind as Lester goes from squatter to cave-dweller to serial killer and necrophile as he becomes increasingly associated with premodern and inanimate phenomena.[1] The novel ends with the dehumanized and mutilated Ballard dying in incarceration, his remains eventually dissected by medical students and then interred outside the city, while the long-hidden corpses of his victims are unearthed from his former subterranean haunt.

    When I read it, I didn't realize it was based on true events.

  41. #890

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    As for that, I think they are claiming that masks are useless because you can smell things when you wear one. Health experts say otherwise, but these guys hate experts.
    I have lung disease, and my pulmonologist says if I can even smell anything airborne, mask or no mask, such as smoke, pollen, chlorine, perfume, solvents, gases, my lungs are exposed and will react to it. Covid 19? I love experts.

  42. #891

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    As for that, I think they are claiming that masks are useless because you can smell things when you wear one. Health experts say otherwise, but these guys hate experts.
    i dont think health experts say otherwise. you wear a mask to protect others from droplet infection.

  43. #892

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    how are those beaches holding up there in the states these past 3 days ?

    are they social distancing ?

    are they gathering in crowds?

    better keep a sharp eye on those beaches and any overcrowding

  44. #893

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    how are those beaches holding up there in the states these past 3 days ?

    are they social distancing ?

    are they gathering in crowds?

    better keep a sharp eye on those beaches and any overcrowding
    it's not just beaches. How do you maintain distance in a protest?

  45. #894

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    i wonder if the heat of the flames might kill the virus ?

  46. #895

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    My heart goes out to all of you in the US right now. The Virus is bad enough, and now on top of it all, this new episode of social unrest.

    It must be tough to be an American at the moment. How much do you think the Virus helped stoke this latest fire? ...
    Last edited by princeplanet; 05-31-2020 at 02:32 PM.

  47. #896

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    I think we'll find that this racial unrest will also start to turn up outside the US, and down the road realize there are anti-society forces using all negative situations as a vehicle for their destructive agenda. Don't let your strings get pulled like a puppet.

  48. #897

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I think we'll find that this racial unrest will also start to turn up outside the US, and down the road realize there are anti-society forces using all negative situations as a vehicle for their destructive agenda. Don't let your strings get pulled like a puppet.
    anti-society forces? sounds familiar.


  49. #898

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I think we'll find that this racial unrest will also start to turn up outside the US, and down the road realize there are anti-society forces using all negative situations as a vehicle for their destructive agenda. Don't let your strings get pulled like a puppet.
    This will appear to be slightly off-topic; but really it is not.

    I am just going through the wash up from our recent, fairly catastrophic, fire season. Reading after-action reports from my own people and from those who came to support us from other nations.

    The thing that really strikes me is that as emergency responders we may all have our own personal and political baggage, but in the face of a common threat we all come together and adapt to be able to work for a common purpose. This cohesiveness reassures me that we can get through the challenges of this pandemic if we focus on the actual threat instead of our imaginary fears.

    I really feel for our fellow humans worldwide, each group facing its own particular challenges, but stlll having a common adversary. What I can say is that if we take the best available advice and act together, cohesively, then we will get through this, even at some great cost. If we allow our selves to be divided against each other then the cost will be much greater. At the same time it is an opportunity to identify those ongoing issues that weaken us all; inequality, racism, sexism, ageism among them; and make a commitment with our better selves to use this time to also eradicate these wherever possible.

    TLB

  50. #899

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    this is a long way from tiananmen square

    the collective police around america are showing unbeleivable restraint . you dont think they couldnt disperse crowds and mow down looters ? in most cases they are like punching bags out there now.

    the peaceful protest is powerful and compelling. this is america going through serious reflection of its racial situation , and all the countries in the americas that brought slaves from africa have the same racial inequalities and problems as the u.s.a. , but they dont go through as much inner conflict about it as america. brazil surly doesnt , but it has as much racial problems as the usa in their own way. sao paulo police kill more civilians than all the police in america

    less than 20 unarmed black people were killed by police last year, hardly a genocide . but, racism and discrimination , and an ugly form of violent racism , basicly because america had a very violent civil war in its past, bring the american civil rights struggle to the fore front like no other place except south africa

    while this might seem like a boshavek revolution in progress , its an ilusion . there is a lot of theatre on all sides. why? what is the death toll so far? with all this heavy violence, destruction, civil chaos, the death toll is still extremly low. if death goes up , then it will get really heavy. for now, its more like americas corona virus pandemic coming out party

    the violent things happening is disgusting. i know antifa, ive studied them for years, they have been down here in brazil , i know thier tactics, their philosophies , thier logic. they are slime and need to be gone after. i support going after this scum and the other organised scum who have taken advantage of this unrest to promote violence , chaos and confusion

    the other thing, the media is making it out to be a black white problem. the killing of floyd, was done by a multi racial police squad of a white guy, asian guy, black guy, and hispanic guy. the autopsy sais he didnt die by asfixiation to the neck , and three of those guys sat on floyd , hampering his breathing.

    the mineapolis area has a horrible police record. a black somali police guy in a suburb killed an australiian woman in a case of mistaken identity , the guy who shot phillipe castille was hispanic. this is a police problem more than a black white situation that happened in minneapolis. yet , the vigilante killing that happened and the white woman in central park calling the police to use a guys blackness to get them to come, definitly highlights that the usa has a long way to go on its racial dynamic .

    the violence happening is not acceptable , and it will have consequences. after the 60s riots, nixon and agnew got voted right in on a law and order agenda. the long term consequences of this violence will not be good

  51. #900

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    To the bunker!