Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 14 of 19 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast
Posts 651 to 700 of 907
  1. #651

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Wuhan is a good example of some success. Nobody is out of the woods yet. They locked down until they got 14 days of no new cases.
    I touched on this like...20 pages ago and just wanted to say that 'lockdown' in the Americas is nothing like lockdown in Wuhan as far as i know.

    I'm reading a long article written by someone who was there. This guy lives in a high-rise apt. building. 1 person from each apt. allowed out every 2 days. A guy outside in a hazmat suite taking temperatures from everyone entering and leaving. Off to the clinic for test and true quarantine with a fever. Coming back you clean everything going into the building, wash hands and walk thru a foot-bath to disinfect shoes. There are 1400 'neighborhood associations' and a bunch of volunteers watching and enforcing.

    That's what they had to do to get some control in Wuhan. Is anything like this being done over here?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #652

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rNeil

    So the final resultd: two months ago, the wife and I and many of our peers in our little town were doing fine.

    Now, we are looking at having everything we've worked for and accomplished over our entire working lives destroyed. Our retirement years turned to possible poverty.
    now imagine seeing your wife in ICU, on ventilation, fighting for her life. wouldn't you gladly give up everything to keep living with her, even in poverty?

    because basically your argument is to rather let her die. or does this only apply to other people's loved ones?

  4. #653

    User Info Menu

    rneil , thanks for saying what you did , i hear you and sympathise very much with your situation. you have every right to be angry and its because your gut is screaming something is not right and its not.

    now you know , djg likes up bop, so im cutting him some slack , i just cant lay into him like id like, but, i dont think some of the people here realise the anger that is building over what as each week passes, is the wrong strategy at how to deal with this virus.

    i dont think they understand that a lot of us are seeing the authorities put up a graft that becomes irrelevant the next week , and explain the huge death tolls as " see , its working" , to justify lockdown, when taiwan , same population as new york, has 6 deaths

    then you get rationalised about that " its too late to do the taiwan strategy.." no its not, its actualy what they are starting to do and call it "track and trace" , only not aggresivly enough.

    they locked down all of us when they are suposed to put huge attention on the people who have pre conditions and lock them down and lock down anyone sick and trace their background and the people they are around and the businesses they went to and quarentine them

    so feel free to speak up, some of us agree with you

    "Pretty wild how even such a sedate forum as JGF has so many heads climbing up asses."
    thump, im trying really hard to not stoop to this leval, you must know i could unleash a barrage of expletive derivatives that would make you feel very bad,and living in new york, i have been trained very well , but, i want to come in to this forum and discuss my ketu concpts , not get into dog fights over here. when people start talking like this , its a sure sign their position is getting weak

    and i think a lot of people are forgetting, the real reason we are on lockdown is not to protect you, its to cover for the unbeleivable failure at the municple leval, the govener leval and federal leval to not have the basic fundimental equipment to deal with this. if we dont learn this lesson , we deserve to suffer. they are the ones failing the health care workers, but , funny its all on us . we have to wear the cloth mask to show others if we are infected when we are not , that we arnt threatening to someone else , it doesnt protect us....they shouldnt patronise us like that, talk to us like adults

    oh, and wuhan? gees, the new news is there are so many more people infected its not funny, you can not trust the cronic lying of the ccp and this whole lockdown is the wuhan strategy endorsed by the who. yet its amazing to hear now the news say " china sais..." as though there is any credibility

  5. #654

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    but , you are wrong about censorship, a thread i started on masks was taken down exactly when taiwan started to get mentioned, and it happened on another forum also. no, i dont have confidence i can broach this subject and not have it scrutinised and posibly taken down.
    I remember that, I’d linked an article that showed the head of the WHO deflecting questions about Taiwan.Then the thread disappeared.
    see how long they last this time?

    Video: Top WHO doctor Bruce Aylward ends video call after journalist asks about Taiwan's status | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP

    Hong Kong broadcaster accused of breaching ‘one-China principle’ after reporter presses WHO official on Taiwan membership | South China Morning Post

    BTW. HK is adhering to these policies of temperature checks at shopping malls, our local restaurants etc. Given our proximity to the mainland life is far from miserable. at least we are not completely housebound. We always wear masks outside, carry hand sanitizer and take off and spray the soles of our shoes with disinfectant when coming back home. Fingers crossed!

  6. #655

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    I touched on this like...20 pages ago and just wanted to say that 'lockdown' in the Americas is nothing like lockdown in Wuhan as far as i know.

    I'm reading a long article written by someone who was there. This guy lives in a high-rise apt. building. 1 person from each apt. allowed out every 2 days. A guy outside in a hazmat suite taking temperatures from everyone entering and leaving. Off to the clinic for test and true quarantine with a fever. Coming back you clean everything going into the building, wash hands and walk thru a foot-bath to disinfect shoes. There are 1400 'neighborhood associations' and a bunch of volunteers watching and enforcing.

    That's what they had to do to get some control in Wuhan. Is anything like this being done over here?
    Yes, that's China! I always had the feeling in US it would never work like that. I've lived there for 20 years, in NYC, but I think I know the general mentality, which is basically "the government can't tell me what to do!". 'Freedom' is the most important thing, even if it's freedom to be stupid and endanger others. Look at all those anti-lockdown protesters. Yea, I get the message- live free or die. Of course they hope it's their neighbor who will die, not them. But making money is more important, for sure, right.

    I read some article said the success in Asian countries in fighting the virus partially due to good tracking system, everybody has a health security QR on their phones that is controlled by a government agency, and that in US it would never work... because people would never agree a controlling app like that on their phones. Well, it pretty much sums it up for me. I don't think I'd want to come back to this country any time soon.

  7. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Despite the most draconian quarantine measures the nation has ever seen, we are seeing 145,000 new cases of COVID-19 in the US this week compared to 30 reported cases of the flu. If we are to assume that the data shows social distancing orders have cut the flu down 97%, and that COVID-19 has been impacted similarly, that would imply that nearly 4.8 million people would have been infected by COVID-19 this week without social distancing.

    Can we know that social distancing is responsible for a 97% drop in the flu? No, of course not. Can we know that COVID-19 would have been 33 times worse without social distancing. We can't know that either. But if you are going to use the flu to argue that social distancing isn't working, then really look at the numbers.

    The numbers tell us that COVID-19 is MUCH more contagious and MUCH more deadly than the flu. Despite unheard of precautions it continues to spread. Precautions that appear to have halted this year's flu in its tracks. The available evidence, from the flu no less, is that forced quarantine orders have prevented a tragedy of unimaginable impact on life, and the economy, that might have been felt for a generation.
    Great post. Thanks.

  8. #657
    This virus really illustrates what a social disaster we have in the US more and more.

    I don't understand how the current situation is not considered a security crisis at EVERY level . (We need emergency powers to produce masks and ventilators?..., Then certainly we would need them for tests as well? I'll never understand why we aren't getting this together at military level.)

    States rights are cool and all, but we're missing the actual BALANCE in the balance of power thing involving states rights. The idea is supposed to be that the federal government doesn't do EVERYTHING, only a certain few things which require an actual federal government... ike national security and defense etc. Well, how is this NOT that thing?

    Meanwhile, it almost looks as if the orange man is once again being a closeted political genius by acting the fool last week? Talk like a dictator... get Democratic Governors preaching states rights... and now we have conservative Republican governors doing worst-case scenario trials of blowing off Trump's actual federal guidelines (which to me seemed aggressive enough). 14 days? Social distancing while applying tattoos and doing nails? These governors are ripping the Band-Aid off and I guess POTUS can actually say it's "their idea".

    These protests and conspiracy theories are absolute craziness , but to be fair , the science community is doing a lot of talking about "12 to 24 months" etc. I guess that's there job, but politically, there should be someone in leadership casting a vision for the future and what it looks like to actually walk out of this thing. You could probably get people to hunker down better if they know what the way out looks like. I just don't see a lot of that at any level. I think in fairness, Cuomo seems to be doing more than most.

    It's all over-politicized on both sides. I just don't see this happening other places to the degree that is here. Just a dumpster fire politically. The whole "debate" seems to be just one-sentence Facebook memes : "I'm not gonna live in fear", "Lives over dollars", "There has to be a life to actually return to when this thing is over". There's truth in all of these, but so what? Apparently in 2020, we think a one-sentence meme is a developed philosophy of life. Everything in the US is a binary, false dichotomy -based, multiple-choice selection. Which one do you agree with? ...that's the wrong question. (If you only agree with one of them, you're missing something IMO).

    Anyway, I have a friend back home who almost died with this thing. Only 48 years old, spent something life19 days on a ventilator, will probably be on oxygen the rest of his life, is looking at two weeks more in the hospital after being there almost a month, and will have to do a lot of therapy to get any semblance of normal back.

    I'm tired of hearing about the percentage thing - that if the infection rate is "high enough" then we're actually looking at a pretty low mortality rate. So what? Is there any point at which other factors - the total numbers of hospital overwhelm, higher causes of infection, lack of immune resistance and total fatalities - trump this percentage thing?

    All these diseases have their distinctives. No one prefers Ebola, simply because it has lower infection rate, and COVID isn't NOTHING, simply because (or IF) ratios of mortality are lower. You can't judge everything on one metric. What's happening to hospital workers is real.

    My dad lives in Georgia with disaster governor opening everything up, my mom lives in another state which is pretty lax as well, and I had a good bit of trouble getting either one to reign things in, especially in the beginning. I haven't seen either one face-to-face for a couple of months now.

    I understand their viewpoints and others regarding the economy, and I mostly agree with the fundamentals. You can't shut everything down forever, but then I'm back to this: if the economy itself is enough of a crisis, how can we afford NOT to throw all of the money we have at testing? I think you'd have an easier time selling "opening things back up", if you have a little more knowledge of actual numbers and actual strategies re. contact tracing etc.

    If there's one thing we haven't had, the entire time, it certainly seems to be data. Well, in a surreal twist of irony, my dad's crazy governor is apparently attempting to help us with that. We'll finally get our control group. Honestly, I thought we had that in Alabama , Mississippi and Oklahoma already, the last few weeks - with lax guidelinesetc, but Georgia is taking it to a whole new level now.

    "Social distancing" haircuts and tattoos. Wow. I guess we'll find out.

  9. #658

    User Info Menu

    If the face of every person who contracted and died from the Corona Virus was shown on TV, and the grieving loved ones were also shown, maybe the narrative would change...for the better.

    Maybe then the politicians would be shamed into taking proper steps to handle this emergency. Maybe folks protesting in the streets for State's Rights, Constitution issues, etc. would march along with the masked Doctors, Nurses and other First Responders (exercising proper social distancing, of course).

    Maybe actually seeing the dead and the pain of loved ones, instead of numbers on a graph, would wake up folks to the reality of what this virus is doing to us as a people...as a civilization...as a world. Maybe then we would turn our energy to finding and funding a cure. Maybe...

  10. #659

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    ...
    but then I'm back to this: if the economy itself is enough of a crisis, how can we afford NOT to throw all of the money we have at testing?...

    If there's one thing we haven't had, the entire time, it certainly seems to be data...
    Because testing and data lead to facts. Facts are harder to dispute than throwing out what-ifs, conspiracy theories, debates, and divisions so that there is an easily attainable platform for some gullible people to identify with. It is a someone loses because someone else has to win mentality. Unfortunately that is a leading indicator of success in today's world.

    Edit: Added italicized adjective.
    Last edited by lammie200; 04-23-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  11. #660

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    If the face of every person who contracted and died from the Corona Virus was shown on TV, and the grieving loved ones were also shown, maybe the narrative would change...for the better.

    Maybe then the politicians would be shamed into taking proper steps to handle this emergency. Maybe folks protesting in the streets for State's Rights, Constitution issues, etc. would march along with the masked Doctors, Nurses and other First Responders (exercising proper social distancing, of course).

    Maybe actually seeing the dead and the pain of loved ones, instead of numbers on a graph, would wake up folks to the reality of what this virus is doing to us as a people...as a civilization...as a world. Maybe then we would turn our energy to finding and funding a cure. Maybe...
    Gentlepeople:

    Much of this discussion has been over my pay grade, but I can tell you this: The summer of 2011 gave us a heat wave. My wife and I had nine funerals, six in as many weeks. One of the deaths was a girl Mrs. k had taught during her student teaching days and had been our neighbor. The loss of my Dad, my Uncle, three Aunts (all sisters of my late Mother) a sister-n-law and other close friends in such a short time-frame was devastating. The family church where we mourned and celebrated was the scene of unstated but palpable anxiety - who would be next?
    When this horror plays out, and the toll mounts, and claims those you care about, how do you think you're going to feel?

    I speak from experience.

    God help us all.

  12. #661

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Yes, that's China! I always had the feeling in US it would never work like that. I've lived there for 20 years, in NYC, but I think I know the general mentality, which is basically "the government can't tell me what to do!". 'Freedom' is the most important thing, even if it's freedom to be stupid and endanger others. Look at all those anti-lockdown protesters. Yea, I get the message- live free or die. Of course they hope it's their neighbor who will die, not them. But making money is more important, for sure, right.

    I read some article said the success in Asian countries in fighting the virus partially due to good tracking system, everybody has a health security QR on their phones that is controlled by a government agency, and that in US it would never work... because people would never agree a controlling app like that on their phones. Well, it pretty much sums it up for me. I don't think I'd want to come back to this country any time soon.
    We're all F ed up in the US but it's not like we're welcome anywhere else. Why would we be. Weighing liberty against security might be uniquely American and seem quite crazy to the rest of the world. Maybe it is crazy.
    As for now, we voice our opinion on CV on a global and local level, local being first. I want Nevada, especially Las Vegas to remain closed. As soon as the opportunity arises I'm moving to a small town in Nevada.

  13. #662

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Weighing liberty against security might be uniquely American and seem quite crazy to the rest of the world. Maybe it is crazy.
    It is, man, it is! That's something I never understand living in US, everyone so obsessed with it, privacy this, privacy that... After 9/11 too, talks about oh the government invading my privacy, tightening up security, my liberties are taken away, blah blah blah. Crazy conspiracy theories, now with anti-vaccines nutters... To me it's all insane, I dont think or live like that.

    And as crazy as it sounds, relocating to China probably saved my life, well, for the time being anyway. I'd be already dead in NYC for sure.

  14. #663

    User Info Menu

    so liberty and freedom are overrated ? not in my lifetime

    see this is the real ominous thing going on now, its not the disease, its the parasitic way that an ideology has creeped into free democracies , without even a confrontation or battle, so it seems natural and like the right thing to undergo a marxist style authoritation lockdown with out even questioning it and dismissing and burying the better solutions. and its carried right into the mainstream media and right into congress

    and there are better solutions. right now, the big news is that sunlight is bad for the virus. so im so happy i didnt fall for the fear mongering trying to tell me how bad it was to take a walk in the sun.

    yes, jazzism, i remember so very well how that thread was taken down , right after you mentioned some very relevant information

    and people think the ccp is a better place ? lets see, just in the last couple of years we watched the hong kong represion, the concentration camps , the proved deception coming out of wuhan , the now deception of what is happening in wuhan ,the huge attempt to block the truth of taiwan and the best way to really face this disease. why anybody would look to china as the example for anything is mind boggling.

    even on cnn , they are in wuhan, two reporters, and the ccp authorities come in to censure them. and yet, that is ok for many of you, you dont bat an eye

    its not really pity, but i feel sorry for people who are thinking this ideology , whether full on or red flag light , is the right way, i really do. from my life experiance, close up with red flag lies , manipulations and mandates , with near 40 million dying in my lifetime in mao's china ,for very similar beaurocratic methods of mandates manipulations and lies, i will fight this ideology with every fiber of my body in all its slimey ominous parasitic forms .

    and you all are going to poopoo freedom?

  15. #664

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    i saw your drunk LV major on tv yesterday. you're so screwed.
    The governor is going to wait for a downward trajectory in the daily death rate of at least 14 days, then proceed with caution as to reopening.

  16. #665

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett
    Despite the most draconian quarantine measures the nation has ever seen, we are seeing 145,000 new cases of COVID-19 in the US this week compared to 30 reported cases of the flu. If we are to assume that the data shows social distancing orders have cut the flu down 97%, and that COVID-19 has been impacted similarly, that would imply that nearly 4.8 million people would have been infected by COVID-19 this week without social distancing.
    By "the nation" I assume you mean the US. Has the quarantine measures in the US been as tough as those in Italy, not to mention China? You may have to go that far, to lower numbers quickly.

  17. #666

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    so liberty and freedom are overrated ? not in my lifetime

    see this is the real ominous thing going on now, its not the disease, its the parasitic way that an ideology has creeped into free democracies , without even a confrontation or battle, so it seems natural and like the right thing to undergo a marxist style authoritation lockdown with out even questioning it and dismissing and burying the better solutions. and its carried right into the mainstream media and right into congress

    and there are better solutions. right now, the big news is that sunlight is bad for the virus. so im so happy i didnt fall for the fear mongering trying to tell me how bad it was to take a walk in the sun.

    yes, jazzism, i remember so very well how that thread was taken down , right after you mentioned some very relevant information

    and people think the ccp is a better place ? lets see, just in the last couple of years we watched the hong kong represion, the concentration camps , the proved deception coming out of wuhan , the now deception of what is happening in wuhan ,the huge attempt to block the truth of taiwan and the best way to really face this disease. why anybody would look to china as the example for anything is mind boggling.

    even on cnn , they are in wuhan, two reporters, and the ccp authorities come in to censure them. and yet, that is ok for many of you, you dont bat an eye

    its not really pity, but i feel sorry for people who are thinking this ideology , whether full on or red flag light , is the right way, i really do. from my life experiance, close up with red flag lies , manipulations and mandates , with near 40 million dying in my lifetime in mao's china ,for very similar beaurocratic methods of mandates manipulations and lies, i will fight this ideology with every fiber of my body in all its slimey ominous parasitic forms .

    and you all are going to poopoo freedom?
    China is not a better place, but it's definitely a safer place right now. And America is definitely the most absurd place right now.

  18. #667

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    You use guns against who? Scientists and doctors that recommend things that you think as liberties taken away? Maybe you goin to shoot the virus? And 'little temporary safety' means saving lives of other people?

    That's exactly America that I will never miss.
    I've seen videos of recent protests in the US, "Liberate <state name goes here>", with groups of people standing around with assault rifles. What the actual fuck?!

  19. #668

    User Info Menu

    Some people see stuff on the interwebtubez, and knowing that they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true, go out and march. The guns make their winkies look bigger from one certain angle, although most can't be seen from that angle. But in their heads, they think it looks bigger.

  20. #669

    User Info Menu

    im not a republican , and , i dont need guns to fight the fight im more than ready to confront , my weapons are based on serioius real life proximity to people who have an ideology , and discovering how deep their lies and manipulations and threatening of violence and actual violence , can really go.

    hep to the jive, i would never be that presumtuous to tell you what place you would rather live.im an american living outside the country for more than thirty years as a legal immigrant , i dont blame you for feeling like you dont want to live in the usa , i love america , but dont wave a flag, but hate a lot of americans . but what is being implied here is , only americans get all exited about freedom as a concept , to the point of shirking any athority that goes against their grain.

    that needs to be seriously challenged. freedom of expresion , freedom of choice, freedom to vote or not to vote , freedom to take your business to someone else who will treat you better , these are delicate very recent entries into the human experiance. once you have them , if you understand what not having them is , it is precious . if you take them for granted , because you were born into it , never had to worry about it, you will never apreciete this freedom , freedom people died for so we can enjoy those freedoms, and they are just a snap of a finger from being eroded , taken away , lost.

    those people carrying guns ( the antifa do real violence, they carry the marxist and anarchist flags , they try to stop free speech with violent acts) , they arnt going to be breaking windows, they look foolish brandising their guns in public, any side brandishing guns now i dont like, but their guts are telling them something is wrong . all they really need to do is do the research and understand ideas , so they can stand up to the parisitcal seeping into american life and other western and south american democracies ( yes i know there were right wing dictators on the cold war with usa backing in south america , which im not endorsing , but, you want to debate it, bring it, because i will take it apart before your eyes) that has slowly been happening over decades.

    they would need to learn about gramsci first, i mean im talking to them about the people who say "oh,im not marxist" , then how deep some of the far left cut and paste marx , the soviet union early parameters on like how they tore the family apart in favor of the state , the frankfurt school and critical theory (critical theory is a whole thread in itself, the technique of how you pile on crticism of the country or way of life of that country ,or, capitism way of life in that country and never put it in context of the reality around them. this is the kind of critique you hear all the time about the usa " born in sin , worst slave country, genocide against the indians, worst world policy, imperalistic etc blahblah blah"...this came from the frankfurt school , with people like marcuse who taught angela davis , who did the america is the worst blah blah very well , and horkeimer, and adorno etc . have you ever read the papars by adorno on jazz, who he thought he was an expert on? it is the biggest peice of crap you ever saw and reveals the absolute bs of what critical theory is)

    and go on to teach them about the effects mao, che, fannon , faucoult , lacan etc... and once they started to see the cut and paste way the far left parisiticly brought this ideology ( not marxist , but spoons with marx) into the various actualy very valid movements of trying to change things in america , and how they slowly but surly poisened many of the very good causes out here that really are making a differance in helping people, they would start to realise they better win the battle of ideas

    ( im no republican, i support social safety nets , but not letting people pee and defecate on the streets and hassle for money for alcohol and drugs which the social justice industrial complex has actualy let happen ,and help people and give good wages and people an even chance , but, ive had to go deep into understanding this ideology to deal with liviing with its large influence in a foreign country and the lies they told , and i know the differance).

    and maybe if they did do this, and held their noses to read some of this horrible twisted social attempt to engineer people and have left a body count larger than world war one and two put together in its most viral poisonis form , they would want their right to have guns, anyway

    but its much more basic that that. i was able to see gov cuomo talk about tracing now , as important ( they opened up cnn and fox for the crisis and i go back and forth), which is the taiwan way , which i found out from the freedom to research it, so i know its better and i see dan bergano or something on his show poo poo ing it like an infringement on our freedoms, but , again i know from my freedom to research the truth, that tracing is the best technique and cuomo is right ...then i see cuomo screaming for ventilators but it turns out he didnt need them, so their are mistakes of judgement on both sides. i get to make my own desician based on the freedom to research the truth and not have it censored . but i saw the ccp come after reporters on cnn big time and shut them down

    also, its funny the people making it seem like only amercans cherish freedom , thousands upon thousands are risking their lives to get to the usa for some of that freedom , see, people run away from that other thing, they run to freedom.

  21. #670

    User Info Menu

    Mark Blyth giving a typically nuanced and informed take on the protests etc.


  22. #671

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Liberty versus security- a false equivalency?
    I refuse to live in fear. Erring on the side of caution once in a while is OK with me. As for guns, I don't have them but it doesn't bother me at all if people are armed to the teeth. Do your own thing. The US is a gun culture. I accept it for what it is.
    I think it should be a false equivalency, but not in America? Or more like it should not be the issue of liberty in this circumstances. Do as you told by people who understand more than you about the science and how it works. Just comply, don't be a spoiled child. For everyone's good, for the whole society good. But no, ' I'm free individual and you cant tell me what to do with myself'. To me that's stupid, and you can choose to die, but the problem is you will bring people down with you in this situation. So it does bother me, yea.

    Otherwise sure, waive your guns, your toys in the air, who gives a shit. It didnt bother me in normal times. I was lucky though, we didn't have these individuals in NY much. Sometimes I thought NY should just be a different country all together, it's so different from outside of America.

  23. #672

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I think it should be a false equivalency, but not in America? Or more like it should not be the issue of liberty in this circumstances. Do as you told by people who understand more than you about the science and how it works. Just comply, don't be a spoiled child. For everyone's good, for the whole society good. But no, ' I'm free individual and you cant tell me what to do with myself'. To me that's stupid, and you can choose to die, but the problem is you will bring people down with you in this situation. So it does bother me, yea.

    Otherwise sure, waive your guns, your toys in the air, who gives a shit. It didnt bother me in normal times. I was lucky though, we didn't have these individuals in NY much. Sometimes I thought NY should just be a different country all together, it's so different from outside of America.
    I used to be a 'coastie'. 27 years in NY, 8 in California. I'll stick with flyover country. I like the Nevada desert.

  24. #673

    User Info Menu

    I think this whole debate, freedom vs security, government control of the individual, enforcement, drawing the lines between all these, etc., will be one of the most important things to come out of this whole virus epidemic and its impact on the world. For one thing, millions of people will realize for the first time ever, how all this translates in the 21st century, with governments and corporations being able to know literally everything you say and do, to an unprecedented extent, and totalitarian regimes still being the norm rather than the exception, statistically speaking.

    Another big thing will hopefully be, changing our food supply chain a bit. Which, together with how small the planet has become with modern travel, is the basic reason behind this epidemic. We have violated every single nature rule, in how we raise and grow both animals and plants in the recent decades. Hopefully people will begin to realize what the price for that could be.

  25. #674

    User Info Menu

    some reactions to the virus remind me of cheryl, who finds the imminent terrorist attack most inconvienient, and just can't see how she can leave LA that weekend...

    Last edited by djg; 04-25-2020 at 04:51 AM.

  26. #675

    User Info Menu

    So, after testing the entire crew of the USS Theodore Roosevelt, it seems that 50% of those that tested POSITIVE+ had no symptoms at all, yet were contagious to anyone they'd contact. That is a snapshot of who'd be running around thinking they were fine and dandy if we were not in lockdown. Contagion certainly becomes exponential without something to slow down contact. It's time for testing everyone.

    Folks should stop listening to mainstream media for the truth. It's all politicized. It's so easy to hear who's being manipulated. Think for yourself.

  27. #676

    User Info Menu

    Freedom and free country, does not mean that just because you have an asshole, ...er..., sorry.., an opinion, you can do whatever you're pleased and bear no responsibility for it.

    Basically, freedom boils down to having the right on fair trial and lawyer for free (if you can not afford to pay one).

  28. #677

    User Info Menu

    its exactly because its so contagous ,is the reason that even in lockdown, you cant stop it. it requires a differant strategy

    i invite for one minute , people pushing the lockdown strategy to step back and ask yourselves "what if the lockdown strategy is the wrong strategy?"

    and there is huge logic to ask this question.

    the whole lockdown strategy is to not overwelm the health care system , which i seperate in a big way from "doctors advice". one thing you can count on, when doctors dont know the anwer, they start throwing out guesses and experiment to find out what works .

    i would suggest you only should do as dramatic a thing as a lockdown only if you absolutly know where you are going and have an end game and also have a huge exit strategy which there is neither, other wise, its crazy , and this is crazy what we are going through. they dont know what is going on, the grafts colapse from week to week and they just dont have a handle on it.

    the main goal is to take the strain off the health care workers . all facts lead to the reality that absolutly most of the people dying in the hospitals ( yes of course there are exceptions) , have pre conditions . that is what is clogging the hospitals and making health care workers suffer, too many people with pre conditions coming in and dying.

    locking down everybody lumps the preconditioned people at most risk with huge amounts of people with little risk of going to the hospital with the virus. the whole stay inside thing guarentees that anyone going to the supermarket or pharmacy or deliveries , can get it , ive seen sick people working in these places and they will bring it back to their homes or apartments and spread it.

    who is suposed to be locked down , with a mask and gloves and people around them have to treat them being carerully protected also , is any people with pre conditions . and of course anybody sick gets locked down even if its not the virus. and you trace trace trace, the people around them and the businesses they went to

    people who dont have pre conditions go back to work , and if they get the virus , based on the truth the most people dying have preconditions, they will be off for 2 oer 3 weeks. or if a business closes down because it had people with the virus, its two or three weeks and disinfected.not everything closed until further notice.

    funny, that politics is involved in this , is really the lowest. but, the whole lockdown strategy is the wuhan strategy, pushed by the who , and they wont acknowledge the one country that got it right , taiwan, and that is hugely political right there from the get go. with the ccp lying at the start, lying now , and we are all following them? i mean ok, do business with china, live there, dont hate, but dont follow their strategy and beleive them when it comes to something as serious as this. and dont have your whole supply chain for medical equipment tied with them. duh ok of basketball and nike but not medical grade masks, all countries should be self contained with that

    stick to your guns sidewinder... but i dont like the brandishing in public. while those demonstrations do have fringe right wing groups involved, its not the whole crowd. just like left demonstrations have black bloc fringe elements carrying communist flags. charletsville did have the nazis and violence and they are scum but so are the marxists on the left there with their flags , and they were there with no peep from the main stream news about that. its the absolute disgusting and shameful point america has reached when two such poison social engineering european invented poitical philosophies and ugly as facism and marxism fight it out on american streets, shameful , horrible, we should be wretching in vomit mode at just the thought.both those ideologies eliminated multi millions

  29. #678

    User Info Menu

    My wife works in a nursing home. 5th weekend in a row, on top of the regular shifts, with very little breaks. I can’t wait untill she gets home, and I can tell her not to worry, it’s just a flu, or even a hoax. That will surely make her feel a lot better about the couple of dozens of people she really cares for who have died quite painfully (asphyxiation is not something you would opt for if you want to go peacefully), and alone. I didn’t know you could suffocate from a hoax, though. Nice to have some experts on board. Back to jazz, guys? I’m out of this discussion...

    whatever your creed, opinion or nationality: stay safe, stay healthy, and cherish your loved ones. Once they are gone, they stay gone...

    best regards,


    Bruno.

  30. #679

    User Info Menu

    well lets be clear , bruba ( and i have relatives who work in health care also ), nothing i have said indicates its a hoax , or to take it lightly and what im saying is suposed to address more powerfully exactly the people who are at most risk with pre conditions ,and in nursing homes, its sometimes the nurses who unknowingly bring it in . and they are the people who need more attention , the nurses and the people in the homes. but they are lost in the lockdown shuffle with all of us as just a headline and statistic

    and if people look at this lockdown , with the weekly outdated grafts , the constant misiformation ( like you shouldnt take a walk on the beach in the sun) and see the death toll on the places who do lockdown and accept " its working ..." , especialy with the suffering of the health care workers and the pre contitioned patients who die miserable deaths, then we need this discusion more than anyone could realise

    and lets get another thing straight, this isnt our fault, we are doing this lockdown on the notion from the authorities, that it can slow the virus down so the health care will not be overloaded. this , by any streatch of the imagination has failed. we are in a big way , as a collective group , following the authorities and medical authorities directions pretty darn well with some exceptions , beyond the call of duty. because we do take this disease seriously. so when the authorities start leading us down paths that by any streatch of the imagination , should be called unacceptable , it is wise to broach these subjects .

    what i find strange is the need for bickereing about it, or shut it down , the discusion. if jacksonville opens their beaches ,we should be willing to see what happens. yeah, not time for new york

  31. #680

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bleakanddivine
    ...all being orchestrated by Bill Gates to take over the world.
    Or the makers of Clorox.

  32. #681

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Freedom and free country, does not mean that just because you have an asshole, ...er..., sorry.., an opinion, you can do whatever you're pleased and bear no responsibility for it.

    Basically, freedom boils down to having the right on fair trial and lawyer for free (if you can not afford to pay one).
    Boils down to the individual versus community. It's a very American perspective to view the individual as the most important unit -- that you are most free as an individual, and things go downhill from there. A more European (I'm scared to mention Social Democracy, but, well, there you go) viewpoint is that on your own you are more animal than human -- striving merely to survive, and that a proper expression of our humanity takes place as part of community.

    And so it goes.

  33. #682

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Brubra
    My wife works in a nursing home. 5th weekend in a row, on top of the regular shifts, with very little breaks. I can’t wait untill she gets home, and I can tell her not to worry, it’s just a flu, or even a hoax. That will surely make her feel a lot better about the couple of dozens of people she really cares for who have died quite painfully (asphyxiation is not something you would opt for if you want to go peacefully), and alone. I didn’t know you could suffocate from a hoax, though. Nice to have some experts on board. Back to jazz, guys? I’m out of this discussion...
    My wife is a doctor and she just checked when she woke up this morning -- a patient of hers died earlier this morning, most likely from CoVid-19. The thing that upset my wife the most is that the woman's family couldn't be there to be with her at the end.

  34. #683

    User Info Menu


  35. #684

    User Info Menu

    bonritmos, forget about China.

    What about the success of New Zealand, which started isolation much earlier in their trajectory than other countries did?

    Compare it to Singapore, which has an authoritarian government, with 2,329 cases per million people (NZ has 305/million).

    NZ also had their first case much earlier than Singapore, and already Singapore has almost 10 times as many cases as New Zealand.

    Obviously, since you won't give credence to charts and graphs, this won't mean anything to you. But I'll take the danger of being able to stay away from the clerks in the grocery store over having people just going about their business. You obviously trust people to wear masks and keep 2 meters distance without any legal pressure to do so; I have too much daily experience of people not doing it even when authorities demand it of them.

    The shopkeepers who have stayed open have signs in the windows saying only people with masks can enter. They can't keep people who don't have masks out, because they are trying to run a store; they aren't equipped to be bouncers. So, guess what? There are people who ignore the signs and push in anyway. Not a lot; most people are more considerate than that, but it doesn't take many, does it?

  36. #685

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    well lets be clear , bruba ( and i have relatives who work in health care also ), nothing i have said indicates its a hoax , or to take it lightly and what im saying is suposed to address more powerfully exactly the people who are at most risk with pre conditions ,and in nursing homes, its sometimes the nurses who unknowingly bring it in . and they are the people who need more attention , the nurses and the people in the homes. but they are lost in the lockdown shuffle with all of us as just a headline and statistic

    and if people look at this lockdown , with the weekly outdated grafts , the constant misiformation ( like you shouldnt take a walk on the beach in the sun) and see the death toll on the places who do lockdown and accept " its working ..." , especialy with the suffering of the health care workers and the pre contitioned patients who die miserable deaths, then we need this discusion more than anyone could realise

    and lets get another thing straight, this isnt our fault, we are doing this lockdown on the notion from the authorities, that it can slow the virus down so the health care will not be overloaded. this , by any streatch of the imagination has failed. we are in a big way , as a collective group , following the authorities and medical authorities directions pretty darn well with some exceptions , beyond the call of duty. because we do take this disease seriously. so when the authorities start leading us down paths that by any streatch of the imagination , should be called unacceptable , it is wise to broach these subjects .

    what i find strange is the need for bickereing about it, or shut it down , the discusion. if jacksonville opens their beaches ,we should be willing to see what happens. yeah, not time for new york
    Who says lockdown has failed? All medical professionals say it's helping a lot to flatten the curve. There are still so many deaths because it was done too late! By all means the Chinese method or close to it needed to be adapted much earlier. But again, it's all impossible in the US of A, too many assholes thinking they are too cool for school and it never worked.

  37. #686

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ukena
    bonritmos, forget about China.

    What about the success of New Zealand, which started isolation much earlier in their trajectory than other countries did?

    Compare it to Singapore, which has an authoritarian government, with 2,329 cases per million people (NZ has 305/million).

    NZ also had their first case much earlier than Singapore, and already Singapore has almost 10 times as many cases as New Zealand.

    Obviously, since you won't give credence to charts and graphs, this won't mean anything to you. But I'll take the danger of being able to stay away from the clerks in the grocery store over having people just going about their business. You obviously trust people to wear masks and keep 2 meters distance without any legal pressure to do so; I have too much daily experience of people not doing it even when authorities demand it of them.

    The shopkeepers who have stayed open have signs in the windows saying only people with masks can enter. They can't keep people who don't have masks out, because they are trying to run a store; they aren't equipped to be bouncers. So, guess what? There are people who ignore the signs and push in anyway. Not a lot; most people are more considerate than that, but it doesn't take many, does it?
    Not to mention Taiwan, a country, hard by China, with a population of 24 million (NZ is about 5 million) and a total of ... 6 deaths so far and 27 cases per million. How did they do it? They assumed a pandemic was inevitable and prepared for one. They knew about Wuhan before China announced anything because they were watching Chinese social media. Because Taiwan was hit by SARS, they required hospitals to stockpile for pandemics, and did other obvious things but earlier than a lot of other countries.

    The thing about exponential growth is by the time you notice something is happening, it may well be too late.

  38. #687

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Boils down to the individual versus community. It's a very American perspective to view the individual as the most important unit -- that you are most free as an individual, and things go downhill from there. A more European (I'm scared to mention Social Democracy, but, well, there you go) viewpoint is that on your own you are more animal than human -- striving merely to survive, and that a proper expression of our humanity takes place as part of community.

    And so it goes.
    Don't believe the hype about protests in the US. It's a very small number of people.

  39. #688

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol
    Don't believe the hype about protests in the US. It's a very small number of people.
    I agree with you. There is bipartisan support for physical distancing and staying at home. But on the other hand, the small number of protesters are doing it from the view point I mentioned. What I don't know is how well public opinion will hold over time, given the confusing things the president is saying. He seems to support the protestors, even as they rail against the federal guidelines. Huh?

  40. #689

    User Info Menu


  41. #690

    User Info Menu

    Look at South Korea's response. They didn't lockdown at all. They found the originating point of the virus spread and quarantined individuals and used contact tracing very early when the virus was first evident. They were also better prepared for a respiratory viral infection based on their previous experience.

    The USA did not react in any similar fashion because (besides the lack of imagination by our government that a disease pandemic is a real catastrophic possibility and preparing for one was not prioritized) at least one issue is the invasiveness of contact tracing and it's infringement on civil liberties. By mere consequence we were forced into a lockdown to buy time until we have effective testing, quarantining, treatments, immunities, vaccines, etc.

    What is proven is that if you address this type of problem when it is a trickle you can effectively stop it. When you wait for it to gush you can't turn it off overnight. Whatever syndrome you want to call it, it is a failure and it isn't comparable to anything else like the deaths associated with the seasonal flu. We take measures to control seasonal flu deaths so that people don't die needlessly. In the case of COVID-19 which is highly contagious and spread by both symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers we have taken no measures and are just reacting to trying to control the exponential spread. People are dying needlessly. Allowing the coronavirus to spread without mitigating measures such as a lockdown has already been proven to result in increased deaths. Look at the late start in lockdowns that occured in Europe as well as the USA. The evidence is there.

  42. #691

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200
    Look at South Korea's response. They didn't lockdown at all. They found the originating point of the virus spread and quarantined individuals and used contact tracing very early when the virus was first evident. They were also better prepared for a respiratory viral infection based on their previous experience.
    Recently, Giuliani made fun of the notion of contact tracing:



    As I wrote before, what the actual fuck?! Contract tracing is a proven technique in dealing with infectious diseases. Why are they belittling it? I think it has to do with Fox's ideology, that anything government does is bad and the only correct actions of those of individuals, acting on their own. Good luck if that's your plan.

  43. #692

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Recently, Giuliani made fun of the notion of contact tracing:



    As I wrote before, what the actual fuck?! Contract tracing is a proven technique in dealing with infectious diseases. Why are they belittling it? I think it has to do with Fox's ideology, that anything government does is bad and the only correct actions of those of individuals, acting on their own. Good luck if that's your plan.
    It has to do with getting paid. It’s supermarket tabloid journalism. It sells to gullible people. It doesn’t make any difference what someone from FOX really thinks. They have to sell for the money grab. The ideology doesn’t go deeper than that, IMHO.

  44. #693

    User Info Menu

    ukena and hep to the jive , i apreciete your comments

    ukena, i can at least accept the small differance from you saying it should be a law for masks and me saying it should be a law for the pre conditioned and everyone else should do it for personal courtesy. i have mine . for sure im very interested in the countries you said, and as big daddy jobim said taiwan, which i always mention , and your mention lemme of south korrea. it just fortifies my impresion that there are other ways.

    hep to the jive, well, the doctors pushing the lockdown have gotten up in front of us , talked about flattening the curve and saying its working. for me, its hard to see the countries like taiwan and others have such a low death count in comparison and think its working. ive heard what people say , its too late, that is where i disagree. at least i honestly beleive if they enacted the track and trace policy and really try to isolate the pre conditioned people, that is going to cut down the hospital death rate. and , that is the thing, no matter what they are saying, the reality seems horrible. way too many deaths, expecialy when other tactics get so much better results. personaly, i cant accept that this lockdown is the best way...just my opinion...we are in islolation, the local mayors corona virus health line is apsolutly no help what so ever, so , i get more information on here and im blabbing more on here

    and, just my opinion, i dont think its too late to do the taiwan track and trace, as a matter of fact, you know that is what is starting to happen and as big daddy jobim brought in here, its starting to be a republican talking point to be against it ( can you beleive i played a gig down here in brazil and giuliani was the special guest ?, he was pushing his security company against terrorism )...what a pity because it is the one of the ways to climb out of the hole of death and overworked health care workers . this gives me hope that they are talking about agressive tracing ( maybe i have the definition wrong, i thought tracing means checking all the people the sick person has been around and tracing their history , not a phone trace , im not sure i agree with a phone tracing me).

    but what is missing, is a powerful identification and powerful isolation and care of the people with pre conditions . for me, with out this, the pre conditioned people will just keep getting sick and going to the hospitals and dying. we have to make an extra effort to prevent these people from getting sick. there is way too high a percentage is black americans dying from this . im really looking for people who talked the talk about helping black america , to walk the walk right now when many black americans with pre conditions desperatly need help . we dont need government or politicions to deal with this on a certain leval. some celebrity , corporate and billinaire money could do it seperatly, if we really wanted to, i mean oprah could do a lot with john travolta and his jet , jay z , lebron , bezzos, gates, ( i always thought that was going to happen in katrina time in new orleans , i thought they would come to the rescue...i really did)

    and here is where i see a real lack of creativity in policies. instead of bailing out restarants and paying restaraunt workers bail out money or the rip offs that for sure are going to happen of this bail out money, they should organise trucks and pay teams and restarants and cooks and servers and the farmers destroying food now, to make food for the pre conditioned people , and deliver to them, to keep them from having to go out and fend for themselves. of course it has to be as clean as a dr no decontamination center. everything im seeing makes me think that dealing with prevention in the preconditioned people is the real secret against huge amounts of hospital deaths ( i think they said more than fifty percent of the usa population has pre conditions that could affect them with the virus)

  45. #694

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    I've seen videos of recent protests in the US, "Liberate <state name goes here>", with groups of people standing around with assault rifles. What the actual fuck?!


    Message from Gov. Whitmer - SNL - YouTube

    Cananada. That's what we called Canada back in Buffalo. We used to talk about beer a lot. Blue, Golden, Bud or Miller?
    It was Blue for me most of the time.

  46. #695

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsritmos
    ukena and hep to the jive , i apreciete your comments

    ukena, i can at least accept the small differance from you saying it should be a law for masks and me saying it should be a law for the pre conditioned and everyone else should do it for personal courtesy. i have mine . for sure im very interested in the countries you said, and as big daddy jobim said taiwan, which i always mention , and your mention lemme of south korrea. it just fortifies my impresion that there are other ways.

    hep to the jive, well, the doctors pushing the lockdown have gotten up in front of us , talked about flattening the curve and saying its working. for me, its hard to see the countries like taiwan and others have such a low death count in comparison and think its working. ive heard what people say , its too late, that is where i disagree. at least i honestly beleive if they enacted the track and trace policy and really try to isolate the pre conditioned people, that is going to cut down the hospital death rate. and , that is the thing, no matter what they are saying, the reality seems horrible. way too many deaths, expecialy when other tactics get so much better results. personaly, i cant accept that this lockdown is the best way...just my opinion...we are in islolation, the local mayors corona virus health line is apsolutly no help what so ever, so , i get more information on here and im blabbing more on here

    and, just my opinion, i dont think its too late to do the taiwan track and trace, as a matter of fact, you know that is what is starting to happen and as big daddy jobim brought in here, its starting to be a republican talking point to be against it ( can you beleive i played a gig down here in brazil and giuliani was the special guest ?, he was pushing his security company against terrorism )...what a pity because it is the one of the ways to climb out of the hole of death and overworked health care workers . this gives me hope that they are talking about agressive tracing ( maybe i have the definition wrong, i thought tracing means checking all the people the sick person has been around and tracing their history , not a phone trace , im not sure i agree with a phone tracing me).

    but what is missing, is a powerful identification and powerful isolation and care of the people with pre conditions . for me, with out this, the pre conditioned people will just keep getting sick and going to the hospitals and dying. we have to make an extra effort to prevent these people from getting sick. there is way too high a percentage is black americans dying from this . im really looking for people who talked the talk about helping black america , to walk the walk right now when many black americans with pre conditions desperatly need help . we dont need government or politicions to deal with this on a certain leval. some celebrity , corporate and billinaire money could do it seperatly, if we really wanted to, i mean oprah could do a lot with john travolta and his jet , jay z , lebron , bezzos, gates, ( i always thought that was going to happen in katrina time in new orleans , i thought they would come to the rescue...i really did)

    and here is where i see a real lack of creativity in policies. instead of bailing out restarants and paying restaraunt workers bail out money or the rip offs that for sure are going to happen of this bail out money, they should organise trucks and pay teams and restarants and cooks and servers and the farmers destroying food now, to make food for the pre conditioned people , and deliver to them, to keep them from having to go out and fend for themselves. of course it has to be as clean as a dr no decontamination center. everything im seeing makes me think that dealing with prevention in the preconditioned people is the real secret against huge amounts of hospital deaths ( i think they said more than fifty percent of the usa population has pre conditions that could affect them with the virus)
    Track and trace for sure, of course! But it's been said by many here, me included, American people would not agree because it's intrusion into their privacy. Me? I think it's BS excuse, f-k your privacy, I rather live. That's why I'm happy to be in Asia right now, where those thoughts don't cross people's minds.

  47. #696

    User Info Menu

    How do you start to track and trace once you've already got a few million infected people? Seems a bit late and impossible to accomplish. I think that's a strategy you have in place to do before something happens, so you can jump on it when the numbers are low.

  48. #697

    User Info Menu

    Good question. I don't know, but here in Shanghai they asked us to download the QR Health Code later on in the game, when it was largely under control.
    Corona Virus impact on jazz?-qrhealthcode-jpg
    If you go to the city to get into restaurant or bar, they will ask for it. And take your temperature, of course. I'm not sure how it works, but I downloaded on my phone without asking any questions, just like everyone else did. I believe it's for my own good. It doesn't bother me at all, what are they gonna do, invade my private collection pics of my gf? Be my guest.

    If you want to be paranoid about every little thing, like every government move has a secret agenda to rob you of your freedoms, that's more a mental issue. It's not a way to live.

  49. #698

    User Info Menu

    I'm sure people in China are made to agree to many things that us in the west wouldn't, like having infrared cameras outside their homes at all times, having a government they can never elect or change, having people just disappear if they disobey quarantine orders or criticize the government, etc etc..

    Maintaining a critical look towards authority and power is a very sound approach for any democratic society. Personally I find freedom, democracy, human rights etc to be more important than any epidemic. We are very right to criticize unfortunate leaders such as Trump, but they still are a world apart from regimes similar to China, Russia, Iran (to name a few countries notable in the coronavirus epidemic).

  50. #699

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    I'm sure people in China are made to agree to many things that us in the west wouldn't, like having infrared cameras outside their homes at all times, having a government they can never elect or change, having people just disappear if they disobey quarantine orders or criticize the government, etc etc..

    Maintaining a critical look towards authority and power is a very sound approach for any democratic society. Personally I find freedom, democracy, human rights etc to be more important than any epidemic. We are very right to criticize unfortunate leaders such as Trump, but they still are a world apart from regimes similar to China, Russia, Iran (to name a few countries notable in the coronavirus epidemic).
    You're right. I'm not saying to copy the Chinese model society, I'm only talking about the virus crisis approach. Chinese goverment is f-up on many levels, and I don't have plans to settle down here for good. Every time I have to deal with VPN just to get on FB or Youtube I curse.

    But here again you just philosophize about democracy, and I give you a solid example what Chinese (and other Asian countries) did that proved to be successful with fighting the virus, but what seems to be unacceptable to the West democracies, or maybe just US, because people have paranoid mentality. You call it critical, sound approach, ok, I don't think so.

    Anyway, I started to see the gigs are coming back, the live music announcements are popping up again, and I predict many American jazz musicians would try to come here soon. Not that we don't have plenty already, the scene is really good here. And not just US, form all over the world!

  51. #700

    User Info Menu

    "A more European (I'm scared to mention Social Democracy, but, well, there you go) ...."

    big daddy jobim , ha ha, dont worry , you must already know if i can break down "gramsci to marx to mao to marcuse to fannon ", i know the differance from social democracy and democratic socialism, and ive heard the leaders of the scandanavial countries go to great pains to say they are not bernie democratic socialism that even he thinks they are.

    cosmic gumbo, good question, the way i see it, to isolate anyone who is sick and trace the people around them to deal with them too, and, maybe most important of all , really go after and isolate and help people who have pre conditions. what does that accomplish ? it automaticly should reduce the people going to the hospital overwelming the health care workers. imagine opening all the resarants with bail money to make food for people with preconditions , and have it deliviered to them with medical things and cleaning and hygine things ( i cant beleive as im writing this im hearing a report on the news of somebody doing this in new york, as im typing here) .

    ukena, a legitimate non loaded question for you, as a self described pre conditions person, what would make your life easiar and safer with out the obvious answer you would want everyone to stay home? what kind of effort could be put in place that could address your personal needs to make it less likely you could get the virus ? and i dont like people who would barge in a place that requires masks with no mask. they should be dealt with by the authorities

    well put , alter

    see, i think we made a lot desicians about how to deal with this disease out of fear. and i have fear too. i am not an uninformed person , i dont flaunt the efforts to stem this disease but i cant respect the restrictions that actualy dont help at all and could be worse for you.


    i think as time has passed here in the world, we are understanding more, like the people who are overwelmingly dying are the pre conditioned people with of course some exceptions . i think we are reaching the point we can face our fear. meanwhile, im hunkered down, wishing to holy heck i could get an antibodies test because im almost sure i had this disease based on a dramatic taste change after being sick, and the mayors health corona virus help line very curtly lets me know they have no idea when they will have the antibodies test. im totaly in limbo