The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hello!

    Happy New Year to everyone here! Well, it isnt so happy for me, from the middle of october I had a left hand injury, couldnt use it, of course I also couldnt play the guitar. I tried a lot of things; physotheraphy, ointments, shock wave theraphy, resting, etc etc, but nothing helped. Then I had a "date" with a hand surgeon specialist this thursday, had an x-ray, and other tests, after these he told me that my saddle joint (dont know if it is the proper name for this in english) in the meeteing of thumb finger and hand looks like if I were a 80 years old guy. And I am just 40 now... This is come kind of arthrosys. He told me that soon I will need an operation, in which the joint will be replcaded with some floating artificial joint, but the success rate of the operation is 50% only. And if it is not successfull, then the guitar playing wont be the only one for I can use my hand, but fot nothing... I am a guitar player/teacher, not so good as You are all here, but I like this. Now all my job, my life seems like going to lie in ruins. I am now getting hyaluronic acid injections into the joint, which causes so much pain, I just cant describe...

    I am absolutely sad, and cant see the light in the end of the tunnel. If anyone has any experience on this or can suggest just anything, do it here, please.

    Thanks for reading this, and play the guitar instead of me, too...

    MrBlues

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  3. #2

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    Sorry to hear that - I can feel your pain. Sorry to say that I can't offer any help or suggestions, hopefully someone around the forum can.

  4. #3

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    I am very sorry for your hand trouble.

    FWIW, all is not lost if the surgery fails. You should be able to apply your guitar knowledge to retraining as a left-hand player. You will move up the curve rapidly.

    Others have done this. My classical guitar instructor did.

    Meanwhile, here's hoping for a good outcome with the hand surgery, when that rolls around.

  5. #4

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    Sorry to hear about your injury, I've had some of these myself over the years. I take it you have consulted additional doctors, gotten some more opinions about this? I have several friends that have had severe diagnosis made about injuries, and ended up solving the problem with more median ways. At 40 our hands can heal better than at a later age.

  6. #5

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    Thank you guys for Your replies, and support!

    Of course I am going to take my test results to other specialists to get them checked, and I am also checking the net, forums, and trying to gather as many infos as I can about this. I am opened to any alternate medicines, therapies, just like old chinese or indian, whatsoever. Will see how can I avoid even the possibility of the hand surgery. Must find a way to do so, I am working on, and wont give up...

    God Bless You All!

  7. #6

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    Surgery cannot be undone so before you do anything I would get a few opinions. Sometimes doctors are wrong and things clear up. The typical point is that time can actual heal in some cases. What injury set this off? I feel you pain. I have been lucky as a guitarist but I know I am a distance runner and getting injured and hurt is just as bad. I broke a hip riding my bike over 4 years ago and was really worried I would not be able to run. Well as it turned out I went back to running in 15 weeks and was darn lucky.

    Do everything you can to research the topic and ask all the questions. I have a feeling you might just be back playing before you know it.........40 is still young.

  8. #7

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    I have arthritis in my hands, including the carpometacarpal joint, which is probably the one you're talking about.

    I have seen three hand surgeons.

    1. Recommended physical therapy without being able to explain how or why it might help.

    Which is why I got another opinion.

    2. The next one used a flouroscope in his office. With that, he could actually see the bones moving and give me a screen shot of it. He knew exactly what was wrong. He had a number of suggestions for diet, medication and activity (no keyboarding at all). He said, "you won't get me near it with a knife". He also injected a steroid, which, as far as I could tell, didn't help or hurt. He recommended against statins (with PCP approval), against gluten and in favor of Vitamin D (which requires monitoring blood levels to be safe).

    3. The third, and final, doctor didn't use a flouroscope but made the same diagnosis. He said that he thought the steroid injection could do more harm than good. He doesn't use them. He told me to call him for a surgical evaluation "when you can't do something you love to do". He also made a point of recommending an actual hand surgeon, not a general orthopedist. I won't go into all the detail, but this was compelling. The hand surgeons get better outcomes. He did not recommend against gluten or statins.

    He explained the surgery. It involves cutting a tendon and using it in place of cartilage. I don't know how a guitarist would fare without that tendon.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I have arthritis in my hands, including the carpometacarpal joint, which is probably the one you're talking about.

    I have seen three hand surgeons.

    1. Recommended physical therapy without being able to explain how or why it might help.

    Which is why I got another opinion.

    2. The next one used a flouroscope in his office. With that, he could actually see the bones moving and give me a screen shot of it. He knew exactly what was wrong. He had a number of suggestions for diet, medication and activity (no keyboarding at all). He said, "you won't get me near it with a knife". He also injected a steroid, which, as far as I could tell, didn't help or hurt. He recommended against statins (with PCP approval), against gluten and in favor of Vitamin D (which requires monitoring blood levels to be safe).

    3. The third, and final, doctor didn't use a flouroscope but made the same diagnosis. He said that he thought the steroid injection could do more harm than good. He doesn't use them. He told me to call him for a surgical evaluation "when you can't do something you love to do". He also made a point of recommending an actual hand surgeon, not a general orthopedist. I won't go into all the detail, but this was compelling. The hand surgeons get better outcomes. He did not recommend against gluten or statins.

    He explained the surgery. It involves cutting a tendon and using it in place of cartilage. I don't know how a guitarist would fare without that tendon.
    Absolutely go to a dedicated hand surgeon. My orthopedic doctor told my wife when she was having trouble with her hand and need small surgery......."I am sending you to the person I go if my hand needed attention. I can do knees, hips, and a lot things if needed but the hand is tricky and go to a hand specialist. "

  10. #9

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    Very sorry about your hand problem. Hoping and praying for a good outcome.

  11. #10

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    Turns out that a surgeon can become a Board Certified hand surgeon through the American Board of Surgery with a minimum of 125 cases (total, broken down by type with a minimum number per type, eg. 20 cases, for bone and joint and another 20 for tendon). Also, passing a multiple choice exam and meeting some other requirements.

    A surgeon does not have to be a member, or even eligible, for that board certification in order to operate on somebody's hand.

    I don't think that 20 cases is all that many.

    So, I'd vet the surgeon carefully and ask about how many cases he'd done of the particular surgery you need.

  12. #11

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    Hey, mate, wish you full recovery.

    For what my layman advice could be worth, as far as for guitar playing, you do not really have to use that thumb, not much at least. You can develop some compensatory technique, relying much more on weight of your arm, then on thumb pressure. Thumb you can keep immobilised while playing, so to prevent further dammage. Do not do it without consulting your doctor.

  13. #12

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    First off, I'm sorry to hear about your hand issues. Secondly, reach out and find the best hand surgeon in your country and get a second or even third opinion. 19 years ago I severely severed the tendon and nerves in my left hand ring finger and I was left with permanent injury. At the time and for at least 3+ years afterwards (I actually stopped playing for almost 8 years)

    I tried the left hand approach but I couldn't face starting all over again so I kept it right handed. As I mentioned, I'm left with a permanent disfigurement and a slower left hand. I can't play the same way I did back then but in many ways I'm better as it slowed me down and caused me to focus on other areas.

    As I said, find the best hand surgeon in your country, if you have to find someone else outside your country, do so. When I injured myself, I didn't have that luxury but I had a great hand surgeon who understood what playing music meant to me. I hurt my self in an area of the hand called "no man's land" by hand surgeons. I received the best treatment that I could get at the time (2000). My physical therapy afterwards caused the permanent damage. That part was all on me as I was starting a new job in another state and was forced to improvise my own therapy.

    So if you decide to go the surgery route, get a second and third opinion from "hand surgeons", look at the reputation of the hospital where you will have your physical therapy and follow it to a tee. I realize this has got to be a major trauma and soul crusher but above all please be positive. I was crushed but the spirit of players like Django and Pat Martino kept the fire going.
    Last edited by rob taft; 01-13-2020 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #13

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    I fully support the suggestions of others that it is imperative to be assessed by a hand surgeon.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft
    My physical therapy afterwards caused the permanent damage.

    That part was all on me as I was starting a new job in another state and was forced to improvise my own therapy.
    As a retired physical therapist (or physiotherapist ...as I trained in England), the above (first) sentence made me feel ill.
    Then I read the following sentence.

    If I can impart any advice, it is to respect the fragility and complexity of the hand. It is a collection of small, precise anatomical "components"/structures all working in amazing harmony* (*pun was not "designed"...but it is certainly applicable...and brilliant). Treat the hand gently while it is recovering. If you don't, the risks of complications and subsequent setbacks are significantly heightened.

    I wish MrBlues all the best. Treatment will take time and the (seemingly) slow progress can be very frustrating.

  15. #14

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    Another option is learning slide guitar. May not be your cup of tea but Derek Trucks makes a compelling case for slide in a blues jazz setting.

  16. #15

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    Thanks for all guys, I am now trying to find a solution without the "knife" of a surgeon

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrblues
    Thanks for all guys, I am now trying to find a solution without the "knife" of a surgeon
    If you are pursuing conservative options (i.e., non-surgical) you might like to consider asking an occupational therapist and/or orthotist about a custom "splinting" device (possibly from neoprene or a combination of materials). Just a thought.

  18. #17

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    << This is come kind of arthrosys. He told me that soon I will need an operation, in which the joint will be replcaded with some floating artificial joint, but the success rate of the operation is 50% only. <<


    Without knowing medical details, I'd get mad at that surgeon: your actual doc is a rogue and an evil emotional blackmailer!
    No halfway serious hand surgeon would accept average operative success rates below 95 percent for a planned routine operation! Though it can be different for surgeons operating under emergency conditions, on chronically ill patients, and after repeated interventions.
    It might well be that you don't need the knife at all, but a precise diagnosis by a decent hand surgeon. Go to a large hand surgery center: there docs have to operate more than they ever would like in their lives … they don't appreciate unnecessary kamikaze interventions!
    All the best!

  19. #18

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    Probably not that helpful but I figure if I ever can't use or injure my hands I'll focus on working on my voice. I really love Indian classical singing and would love to have another lifetime to work on that. And/or singing jazz. My voice is not especially wonderful but you work on something and you get better. It's a big world out there with tons of things to do.

    Hope all works out well for you.

  20. #19

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    I didn't read all the comments so apologies if this has been mentioned.

    Les Paul lost most of the mobility in his right elbow due to injury, he had the doctor set it in a position that enabled him to have his hand in a guitar playing position.

  21. #20

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    In a nutshell:

    Rhizarthritis

    Eaton and Littler stage 1 arthritis of the first CMC joint can be treated with arthroscopic synovectomy/denervation. The data on arthroscopic synovectomy are sparse regarding our predefined criteria and the efficacy of denervation is also not confirmed by high-quality studies. Denervation comprises division and coagulation of the terminal, articular branches of the median nerve, the superficial radial nerve, and the lateral cutaneous nerve of the forearm. However, these procedures for treatment of early CMC-1 arthritis can achieve temporary symptom relief and postpone the need for more invasive surgery.

    In CMC-1 arthritis of Eaton and Littler stages 2–4, trapezectomy is indicated. Trapezectomy with or without tendon interposition/suspension is a proven option for surgical treatment of advanced CMC-1 arthritis. The principal goal of pain reduction is reliably achieved by this method. Thus grip strength can often be improved with no loss of mobility.





    Recently, I had to play the old song "When somebody thinks you're wonderful" by Harry MacGregor Woods, who also proved the saying "Health is the power to live with disorders":

    Huge hand problems, help is needed!-music-when-somebody-thinks-youre-wonderful-original-written-harris-macgregor-woods-sto-jpg

  22. #21

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    "but a precise diagnosis by a decent hand surgeon"


    This is imperative!

  23. #22

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    Thanks guys. I got the contact of 2 very reliable and profession hand surgeons now, I have to decide which one to go for. Besides I am making the physiotheraphy, applying ointments, let it rest, changed lifestyle, which means I dont eat sugar, white fluor, and processed foods, which can cause inflammations in the body. I also eat a lots of special vitamins, minerals, and drink tea, which I read can have positive effects on my problem.

    I am also using an infra lamp and a bioptron lamp, two times a day