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  1. #1

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    Doc said I have a bone spur and some arthritis. Xray test results said this...

    Alignment normal. No visible fracture or dislocation

    Moderate glenohumeral joint degenerative changes with inferior joint space narrowing and small osteophytes. Irregular lucency at the inferior humeral head nonspecific. This may be degenerative or related to bone cyst formation. Similar lucency is partially visualized on frontal chest x-ray which includes the humerus, 09/10/2015


    Mild acromioclavicular joint degenerative changes. No soft tissue calcifications
    I'll ask my Dr. about joint supplements at my next visit.

    Wondering if any of you have any recommendations regarding joint supplements.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

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  3. #2

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    I've tried a few, and none seem to work. They work fine for making money for the vendors, but not much else, IME. I think the best supplement is exercise. My wife has arthritis and meniscus damage in her knees, and she was in constant pain. She started exercising and the pain is now only intermittent. Moderate weight-bearing exercise, like walking, seems to be very helpful.

  4. #3

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    Not much knowledge on anatomical terms. Where you hurt?

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200 View Post
    Not much knowledge on anatomical terms. Where you hurt?
    Shoulder... but, I also have general stiffness in my fingers and toes.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    I've tried a few, and none seem to work. They work fine for making money for the vendors, but not much else, IME. I think the best supplement is exercise. My wife has arthritis and meniscus damage in her knees, and she was in constant pain. She started exercising and the pain is now only intermittent. Moderate weight-bearing exercise, like walking, seems to be very helpful.
    After I got home I thought it curious the Dr. didn't recommend any supplements. Perhaps he would agree with your assessment.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  7. #6

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    I know that this sounds like quackery and the only place I have had stiffness was in my toes, but I found that dried cherries helped. I read somewhere where they help with gout. They seemed to help and might be worth a try for what you have going on. I don’t do supplements for anything, btw. Also, unsweetened dried cherries. Maybe a little harder to come by. Good luck and hope you feel better.

  8. #7

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    Safe stretching and careful exercise.

    Also - for inflammatory pain (not stiffness) there is a topical NSAID which is generally prescribed for knees, but it may help. It contains DMSO, is fairly expensive, and is delivered through a specialty pharmacy. I don't recall the name right now but can find it easily if you're really interested.

  9. #8

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    it’s not odd they didn’t recommend supplements; my wife is an ortho specialist and says there isn’t any that work (scientifically at least.)

    of course if someone tells her it is working she suggests to keep doing it.

    Good luck to you
    White belt
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  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Doc said I have a bone spur and some arthritis. Xray test results said this...



    I'll ask my Dr. about joint supplements at my next visit.

    Wondering if any of you have any recommendations regarding joint supplements.
    At least there's that good news at one level. If it isn't any of those other things, it may very well be a basic alignment problem . Postural etc. that is.

    You might pick up a copy of "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue. Think physical therapy type work, but it isn't just to fix problems . It's also proactive maintenance type things. Anyway, it really helps with developing philosophy for taking care of yourself And maintaining basic postural health and strength.

    YouTube search for terms like "egoscue shoulder" etc. have helped me in the past. If you haven't tried any diet strategies, a lot of people get tremendous benefit from those. We were forced onto an AIP diet for my wife a couple of years ago, and a lot of unrelated medical issues miraculously went away for both of us.

    If you can find a doctor that has a lot of training in nutrition specifically , that's great, but it's mostly not a thing at all, in terms of medical specializations and training. Nutritional experts swim in completely different circles from general practitioners etc. , and they range from expertly knowledgeable, educated and well trained practitioners of nutrition...to basic quacks.

    The quacks basically are very successful in marginalizing the whole FIELD but, you can do a lot of the research part on your own. Pretty common practice is to do something like an AIP diet for a couple of weeks, and then begin to gradually add items back to your diet one at a time, until you hit something that triggers inflammation. Once you've done it, you become pretty sensitive to what the trigger foods are.

    Interesting. This one popped up in my Ted feed this week:

  11. #10

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    I have had good luck with the following for tendinitis. In my case the tendon that passes through the shoulder and runs down the arm became inflamed, which made it get too big to pass through the opening in the shoulder, causing referred pain in my forearm. That is, although the injury was in my shoulder I felt pain in my forearm. And it REALLY hurt! I thought I had broken a bone.

    But nope, it was tendinitis. The doctor put me on a huge dose of naproxen sodium aka Aleve. Twice the OTC dosage. This ain't good for your kidneys (liver?) long term so don't do this without Dr. supervision, but it helped a lot. You gots to eat with this med or you'll have serious indigestion.

    So I also took the normal OTC dose of ranitidine (Zantac 150) to mitigate the burning stomach.

    On the recommendation of a bassist friend who struggles with tendinitis, I also took glucosamine. You have to take this 2-3 times a day for at least a month before it has any effect, but it did really help me.

    I also tried arnica montana both topically and orally, and it helps a bit too.

    There's this supplement called Zyflamend that you can get at Whole Foods or online. There are conflicting reviews on the internet; one page called it a "scam" and then recommended other supplements (the ones they sell?) while Sloan-Kettering Memorial Cancer Center's page says that it has shown anti-inflammatory properties in some lab tests but basically considers the jury still out on this one. I found it helpful for back and shoulder pain.

    Ice and light physical activity also helped with the tendinitis, although IDK whether that would apply to bone spurs. When I had the serious tendinitis, my doctor prescribed (in addition to the gigantic dose of naproxen sodium for a couple weeks) icepacks, physical therapy and ultrasound. PT sessions would alternate with ultrasound treatments a few days apart. The ultrasound was basically massaging the tendon "from the inside" to reduce the inflammation/swelling. After one of these sessions, the therapist would ice my whole shoulder, with a huge bag of ice, like you'd put in the bottom of your picnic cooler. The idea was not to ice just what hurt, but the entire area surrounding it, so that ALL the swelling and inflamation would be reduced. They would wrap the ice bag in a towel that was soaked in hot water to make icepack a bit more comfortable going on ... it would start out toasty warm and transition to cold.

    Everybody says not to ice more than 15 minutes, but I've been known to go a half hour without issue. Just don't freeze the skin!

    I also had to retrain myself to avoid certain actions that would reinjure - one of my biggies was picking up my Les Paul in hardshell case at arm's length... basically yanking it out of the closet ... almost ALWAYS caused recurrence of a TON of shoulder pain. After reinjuring myself about a zillion times in this way, I finally learned to pull the case close to my body before picking it straight up, instead of holding it at arms length while doing that. Out of curiosity, I just weighed this: it's about 20.5 lbs.

    Happy to say that the back pain and shoulder pain are pretty much gone now. I hope some parts of this (like the supplements) are applicable to your bone spurs, and I wish you the best of luck with that situation.

    SJ

  12. #11

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    Thanks for the comments. Regarding exercise, I do a lot of light exercise. I'm 61 and retired so I can put the time in.

    Dog walks, average 3 times a day, about 25 miles per week

    Golf, I play twice a week and walk the courses, about 7-8 hours on my feet and about 11 miles per week.

    Light weight lifting twice a week

    Band workout twice a week

    20 minute sessions on rowing machine 4 times a week.

    Certainly that's enough, it takes time away from playing music . I could increase the intensity but my body is old for it's age due to chemo and a bone marrow transplant 8 years ago. I'm on immune suppresion including prednisone with a side effect of muscle atrophy, I try to fight that off with exercise. It's a bit of a losing battle in that I think I continue to lose muscle mass. 5'11", 150 lbs. Per the bmi that's where I'm suppose to be, but I could stand to lose some body fat and gain muscle or so says the mirror.

    By the time you get to your 60s and beyond most of us have a bit of medical history.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  13. #12

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    Well I can say for sure nowadays, with Music not much above the 3rd fret and harmonically challenged. Good joint health is definitely wasted on the Young,LOL!

  14. #13

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    Diet, when you are old & ill (my territory) - it is huge. I still breathe because of it, in spite of the Doctors.

    In a lecture I heard an egg-head quote Margaret Mead as saying "it's easier to change a man's religion
    than it is to change his diet." Diet is very difficult to conquer. Speaking from experience here.

    fep,
    I appreciate the gravity of your conditions.
    You've presented no awareness of the impact of diet on your serious over-all inflammatory state.
    Hope I'm just missing it.
    If not, T .Colin Camplell, PhD (in the video above) is the right place to start.
    All the best to you, man.

  15. #14

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    My recommendation is to only take supplements if they are recommended by an MD.
    Whenever I’m skeptical about health claims I’ll see what sites like this one have to say about them.
    Herbs & Supplements – Science-Based Medicine

  16. #15

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    Always best to get a doctor you trust and follow the advice.

    I have arthritis. Rheumatology recommended Glucosamine, condroitan sp?, blackberry extract (iirc) and high doses of Vitamin D.
    Of these, I think the Vitamin D was helpful. But, that's because I had my D level measured and it was quite low. One hand surgeon told me that musicians do best with a level between 50 and 65 of something - I can't recall the unit. There are potential side effects to too much Vitamin D, so it's best to do this under close medical supervision.

    That doctor then put me on low dose methotrexate which was, for me, all side effects and no benefit. Apparently, this is because he diagnosed an inflammatory type of arthritis.

    I also had injections into my finger joints. They were helpful. BUT, the hand surgeon I trust the most recommends against them. He thinks they advance the disease process in the long run.

    I had PT with thumb braces. No benefit to either as far as I can tell.

    After a lot of trial and error by multiple doctors, I think two things helped. Vitamin D is one - with periodic lab work. The other was a Yamaha Pacifica 012 set up with fairly light strings. Really small neck. String action feels soft. Doesn't hurt to play it.

    NSAIDs are often recommended, but bear in mind they have potentially serious side effects and warrant caution.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    The quacks basically are very successful in marginalizing the whole FIELD but, you can do a lot of the research part on your own. Pretty common practice is to do something like an AIP diet for a couple of weeks, and then begin to gradually add items back to your diet one at a time, until you hit something that triggers inflammation. Once you've done it, you become pretty sensitive to what the trigger foods are.

    Interesting. This one popped up in my Ted feed this week: Why is the Science of Nutrition Ignored in Medicine? | T. Colin Campbell | TEDxCornellUniversity - YouTube[/url]
    It’s difficult for the layman to determine who the quacks are. I hadn’t heard of T. Colin Campbell, but there is significant criticism of his conclusions:
    The China Study Revisited: New Analysis of Raw Data Doesn’t Support Vegetarian Ideology – Science-Based Medicine

    I’ve enjoyed a lot of Ted Talks, but I wouldn’t take health advice from any of them without checking out the critics.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    It’s difficult for the layman to determine who the quacks are. I hadn’t heard of T. Colin Campbell, but there is significant criticism of his conclusions:
    The China Study Revisited: New Analysis of Raw Data Doesn’t Support Vegetarian Ideology – Science-Based Medicine

    I’ve enjoyed a lot of Ted Talks, but I wouldn’t take health advice from any of them without checking out the critics.
    Yeah. I'm a long way from a vegan diet myself. Like I say, it popped up in my feed.

    I was actually more interested in the statistics at the beginning associated with modern medicine's relationship (or lack thereof) with the study of nutrition. I think most would assume that Western medicine professionals have a more solid grounding in nutritional science.

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    My recommendation is to only take supplements if they are recommended by an MD.
    Whenever I’m skeptical about health claims I’ll see what sites like this one have to say about them.
    Herbs & Supplements – Science-Based Medicine
    Argument from ignorance - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  20. #19

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    Who's afraid of a vegan diet?

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Always best to get a doctor you trust and follow the advice.

    I have arthritis. Rheumatology recommended Glucosamine, condroitan sp?, blackberry extract (iirc) and high doses of Vitamin D.
    Of these, I think the Vitamin D was helpful. But, that's because I had my D level measured and it was quite low. One hand surgeon told me that musicians do best with a level between 50 and 65 of something - I can't recall the unit. There are potential side effects to too much Vitamin D, so it's best to do this under close medical supervision.

    That doctor then put me on low dose methotrexate which was, for me, all side effects and no benefit. Apparently, this is because he diagnosed an inflammatory type of arthritis.

    I also had injections into my finger joints. They were helpful. BUT, the hand surgeon I trust the most recommends against them. He thinks they advance the disease process in the long run.

    I had PT with thumb braces. No benefit to either as far as I can tell.

    After a lot of trial and error by multiple doctors, I think two things helped. Vitamin D is one - with periodic lab work. The other was a Yamaha Pacifica 012 set up with fairly light strings. Really small neck. String action feels soft. Doesn't hurt to play it.

    NSAIDs are often recommended, but bear in mind they have potentially serious side effects and warrant caution.
    Oral NSAIDS for sure, they can kill you. But topicals are making a big splash. Much less absorption into the blood stream and little to none in the digestive tract? Don't take my word on it, ask your MD.

    I use Voltaren Gel for PIP and DIP joints of the left hand, mostly first finger.
    PENNSAID is the stronger one that I referred to above. Used for knees or other. It has DMSO plus a stronger dose of the same med that Voltaren Gel contains (I believe). DMSO is an anti-inflammatory and is extra absorbent. Weight lifters used it for years, although it was a veterinary medicine used for race horses, etc. It's now legal for humans by prescription, in the US. I believe that it has been legal in Europe for some time but can't confirm (just rumor AFAIK).

    Heck there is even the over-the-counter stuff too, but I have never tried them and prefer Voltaren Gel. Generally speaking I would expect the over the counter stuff to be (a) less effective/inferior, (2) weaker, and (3) cheaper.

    • Blue Emu
    • Australian Dream
    • others...


    Good luck.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Oral NSAIDS for sure, they can kill you. But topicals are making a big splash. Much less absorption into the blood stream and little to none in the digestive tract? Don't take my word on it, ask your MD.

    I use Voltaren Gel for PIP and DIP joints of the left hand, mostly first finger.
    PENNSAID is the stronger one that I referred to above. Used for knees or other. It has DMSO plus a stronger dose of the same med that Voltaren Gel contains (I believe). DMSO is an anti-inflammatory and is extra absorbent. Weight lifters used it for years, although it was a veterinary medicine used for race horses, etc. It's now legal for humans by prescription, in the US. I believe that it has been legal in Europe for some time but can't confirm (just rumor AFAIK).

    Heck there is even the over-the-counter stuff too, but I have never tried them and prefer Voltaren Gel. Generally speaking I would expect the over the counter stuff to be (a) less effective/inferior, (2) weaker, and (3) cheaper.

    • Blue Emu
    • Australian Dream
    • others...


    Good luck.
    I tried Voltaren some years back. I had to buy it on line from New Zealand back then. As far as I could tell, it did nothing. But, it was recommended by a couple of doctors. Presumably, it has helped other people.

  23. #22

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    Same here for Voltaren. My wife had it prescribed, and we both used it for awhile. It did nothing for either of us. Still a few tubes of it lying around unused, because it's useless, at least to us. My wife has some cream, with arnica and DMSO mixed, and that does help her a little, probably mostly because of the DMSO. I remember when DMSO was discovered as a pain reliever, first described (at least to my knowledge) by a chemist who accidentally got some on his hands. It made a small splash in the chemistry community for awhile, back in the mid 60s. I use it occasionally, but it seems no better, perhaps not as good, as my usual go-to, which is a combination of aspirin, acetaminophen, and caffeine. It's commonly sold as "migraine formula" pain reliever. That works better for me than anything else, at least as well as prescription acetaminophen with codeine.

  24. #23

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    I'm not sure what you guys use Voltaren for but I use on very small joints, and my OA ain't that bad yet. (You always have to say yet with OA ).

    I've heard that some people use it on larger joints and would not be surprised if it wasn't a helpful as it is to me. Same goes for bone-on-bone situations.

    Everybody's case is a little different. Too bad there is no cure for OA.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Doc said I have a bone spur and some arthritis. Xray test results said this...



    I'll ask my Dr. about joint supplements at my next visit.

    Wondering if any of you have any recommendations regarding joint supplements.
    https://www.amazon.com/Quadrangulari...-1-spons&psc=1

    The product above has helped me with joint pain. I take a month break in between bottles.
    Last edited by Fortune; 07-07-2019 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Mistake

  26. #25

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    Try MSM first. Spring Valley at Walmart works well for me for around 25 years. I would then added Glucosamine Sulfate/Chondroytin. The stuff works quickly and within two or three days, you should find you are not so stiff when you wake up in the morning.

    Several older friends have had outstanding success with Fish Oil pills. Something about the body using Omega-3s instead of Omega-6s. The Pubmed website supposedly has an explanation. Apparently, we eat too much grain (which contains Omega 6). The theory I was told was that when your body uses Omega-6 "bricks" to build up its cellular walls (which are semipermeable to allow fluids in and out), then those molecules are too close together and fluid travel is restricted. This supposedly starves the cell to a certain extent. Omega 3's structures are more "porous," which supposedly allows the cell to regulate its fluids better and bring nutrients in.

    Once, around ten years ago, I bought a cheap Glucosamine Sulfate brand. I played basketball and lifted weights pretty much 4 times a week or more, even though I was in my 40s. I started feeling pain. I went on a trip and found I had forgotten to bring my pills. I could only find the more expensive brand that I mentioned earlier. It two days, I went back to being pain free.

    I tried celebrex but man, those things are hard on your stomach and block pain receptors. I don't want pain blocked. I want it resolved and supposedly, MSM helps your cartilege be more flexible whild Glucosamine Sulfate/Chondroytin increases synovial fluid, or whatever fluid that is in our joints. Our diets, they say, are deficient in sulfur, and these supplements help. Sulfur is big in the production of synovial fluid.

    I even had knee surgery after a fread accident. The doctor said my knee joints looked very good for a guy in his mid 50's. I can still lift heavy weights and have no other pains except where I had catastrophic injuries from accidents.

    Got to run. There is a lot of misinformation out there but the proof is in the pudding. I can name over 60 people who tried it and swore by it. Only two, a guy with gravel knees, and another with bone spurs in his shoulders cutting him internally, were not helped by MSM and the other supplement. I did not discover Fish Oil until a couple of years ago. I don't know if it helps for sure but the other two, I still swear by. I eat them with a meal in the morning. I have GERD and so I have to watch what I eat at night before sleep.

  27. #26

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    Here’s a review of what’s known about many popular supplements typically used for osteoarthritis.
    Supplements for Osteoarthritis – Evaluating the Evidence – Science-Based Medicine

  28. #27

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    If any pill or supplement regrew cartilage it would cost $10,000 per bottle and the inventor would be the next Jeff Bezos.

  29. #28

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    I would try a comfrey leaf poultice. Otherwise known as knit bone, comfrey leaf is often used for joint and bone health. Do a internet search on this miracle plant. They call it knit bone for a good reason. This stuff truly does work. I use it often and I tell you it is very effective.

  30. #29

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    i use a topical product called Sombra, the warm therapy version. It was actually recomended by my Primary Care doctor. Keep in mind that he is of Indian(like from India) descent, and has a bit more of an open mind about mixing Western and Eastern medicine.

    It does give me some rather quick, albeit temporary results. i'm 68 and it really does help. A Google search should provide several sources.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Thanks for the comments. Regarding exercise, I do a lot of light exercise. I'm 61 and retired so I can put the time in.

    Dog walks, average 3 times a day, about 25 miles per week

    Golf, I play twice a week and walk the courses, about 7-8 hours on my feet and about 11 miles per week.

    Light weight lifting twice a week

    Band workout twice a week

    20 minute sessions on rowing machine 4 times a week.

    Certainly that's enough, it takes time away from playing music . I could increase the intensity but my body is old for it's age due to chemo and a bone marrow transplant 8 years ago. I'm on immune suppresion including prednisone with a side effect of muscle atrophy, I try to fight that off with exercise. It's a bit of a losing battle in that I think I continue to lose muscle mass. 5'11", 150 lbs. Per the bmi that's where I'm suppose to be, but I could stand to lose some body fat and gain muscle or so says the mirror.

    By the time you get to your 60s and beyond most of us have a bit of medical history.
    Wow, Frank, you rock! I mean that only in the best way, of course, this being a jazz forum and all :-)

    FWIW the glucosamine supplement I use is from Trader Joe's. It does have chondroitin in it, too; the online forums I read some years back indicated that chondroitin isn't effective but isn't bad for you. Now, before all you chondroitin fans flame me to a crisp, please let me say that your mileage may vary, and I haven't researched this in years, because what I'm using works for me. And if chondroitin works for you, good deal!

  32. #31

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    Try taking fish oil tablets on daily basis for a while. I lift weights, and I have found my joints are less sore when I do this. It's a fairly common remedy among older lifters and may help you.

  33. #32

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    I had a painful bone spur on my finger a few years ago. One possible contributer to the formation of bone spurs is an excess intake of oxalates in our diet. High levels of oxalic acid interfere with calcium absorption leading to calcium deposits in the form of bone spurs. Oxalates are found in many plants and are part of a plants way of defending itself from being eaten. The topic of oxalates is complicated and not well studied. If you are concerned with oxalates it is best not to stop consuming them cold turkey as this can cause an oxalate "dump" leading to a wide variety of symptoms. I found out the hard way so be careful if you think you may have oxalate overload. Check the work of Dr. Sally K Norton for more oxalate information.
    Last edited by Matt Cushman; 07-13-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  34. #33

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    It seems as if the scientific (pharma) community has more interest in pursuing research where big dollars are to be made, and supplements are not it... IMO that is.

    Aids? Yup, Cholesterol, high blood pressure? absolutely but till they find a way to patent and gouge prices I don't expect any more than anecdotal evidence of relief from OTC remedies. Unfortunately the "studies" from supplement companies that are quoted from sources other than those considered "reputable" are ALWAYS positive when discussing their product.

    If there are ANY studies or reports I'll trust, it's the Mayo clinic. See:

    Drugs and Supplements - Drugs and Supplements - Mayo Clinic

    At any rate, I have arthritis in my hands, as well as an issue (not formally diagnosed) in my right knee. The knee problem crops up nightly when I ride my bike, and I could just about tell I'm at the 10 mile mark without my cycle computer because my right knee starts to hurt.

    Taking glucosamine / MSM limits my knee pain to near zero, my left hand not as much but it's helpful.
    Regards,

    Gary

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Cushman View Post
    I had a painful bone spur on my finger a few years ago. One possible contributer to the formation of bone spurs is an excess intake of oxalates in our diet. High levels of oxalic acid interfere with calcium absorption leading to calcium deposits in the form of bone spurs. Oxalates are found in many plants and are part of a plants way of defending itself from being eaten. The topic of oxalates is complicated and not well studied. If you are concerned with oxalates it is best not to stop consuming them cold turkey as this can cause an oxalate "dump" leading to a wide variety of symptoms. I found out the hard way so be careful if you think you may have oxalate overload. Check the work of Dr. Sally K Norton for more oxalate information.
    In my case, specifically Starfruit (Carambola) which I grow on my property is a source of oxalic acid. Consumption can be limited by buying and eating only fully ripened fruit, cutting off and discarding the green tips of the "wingtips" of the fruit.

    Consumption of oxalic acid / Oxalates are also not good for people with renal / kidney issues.
    Regards,

    Gary

  36. #35

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    I am having osteoarthritis, it is in the family.
    Since years every morning at breakfast I take one pill of 1200mg glucosamine + Chondroitin + MSM and placebo effect or not, it seems to ease my lower back and hip pain.
    Fortunately no finger, hand or arm issue so far...
    Actually even our 10 years old Lab mix dog is on glucosamine once a day, more in a preventive intent and so far so good...in that case hardly placebo can be at work
    ...every note has an origin and a destination...
    - Tal Farlow

  37. #36

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    All the reliable studies seem to indicate that MSM does have some effect, but glucosamine and chondroitin have none. If you're taking a supplement with all three, you likely will get some benefit, but mostly from the MSM. On the bright side, both glucosamine and chondroitin are safe, and have no negative effect other than to drain your pocketbook a little more quickly. So if you think it helps, maybe it does, and doesn't hurt.

    Other supplements that have been shown to be beneficial through scientific studies are pycnogenol, Boswellia serrata extract, curcumin/turmeric, and Avocado/soybean unsaponifiables. The latter two combinations are slightly less effective, supposedly, but are rather expensive in comparison.

  38. #37

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    I have had issues with trigger finger ( right hand - index ) for almost two years now. A cortisone jab into the pad at the base of the finger one year ago seemed to solve things ( thought not the inflammation of the rest of the hand ) until I stupidly tightened some pvc plumbing under the kitchen sink - by hand. My doctor has now prescribed a second jab for two weeks time. A friend in a similar situation had his doctor hit a nerve when injecting and another had infection introduced.

    This has given me pause for thought and the more so since the curcumin I have been taking for over two months now ( 600mg per day), seems (?) to be changing things. The finger is supple as opposed to stiff ( other than when I v.occasionally find it locking if I form a full fist ) and the hand has ceased to be inflamed. Who knows? I have taken cod liver oil pills daily for years and the doc prescribes Vitamin D - 3 monthly.

    Interesting findings here: Therapeutic Roles of Curcumin: Lessons Learned from Clinical Trials

    PS The most recent issue involved the index becoming set in crooked fashion after twenty minutes practice holding a pick. This is no longer the case. Not perfect, but improving.

  39. #38

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    Here's my experience with injections in finger joints.

    Two rheumatologists injected finger joints. I was told that after 5 in the same joint, the injections would stop working. One doc said that he thought that wasn't because of the impact of the injection, but because of the progression of the disease.

    One injection, apparently, went into the tendon by accident and the thumb is permanently crooked, although it works fine.

    Generally, I thought the injections worked.

    BUT

    Two hand surgeons disagreed. One injected my thumb (different joint) with no benefit. The other surgeon said that injecting meets the standard of care, but he thought the injections did more harm than good in the long run. I've been following his advice for the last few years -- no more injections so far.

    MEANWHILE

    I discovered I had low Vitamin D and taking supplements has seemed to help my fingers more than anything else, unless it was simply a matter of time. Vitamin D can cause problems in excess, so it's the kind of thing that has to be medically supervised with blood tests to check levels.

    One final point. I live near a city with a symphony orchestra and I play with one of their bassists. So, I asked him to ask around for a hand surgeon who works with musicians. One of them was a gigging musician himself -- and understands how musicians feel about their hands. He used a flouroscope in the office to diagnose the problem, which none of the other docs (including 2 hand surgeons) did. They all agreed about the diagnosis, but the doc with the flouroscope could see it clearly. He injected. He also had some other ideas, including trying to get off statins and going on a gluten free diet, which he recommends to all musicians. He strongly suggested NEVER typing on a keyboard because of the thumb motion.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    ...He strongly suggested NEVER typing on a keyboard because of the thumb motion.
    I am screwed. Most of the time I am on a computer and even respond to forums is at work. I am at work right now as a matter of fact. Cross my fingers (maybe I shouldn't!) but no thumb problems yet.

  41. #40

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    Can't go wrong with eating a more anti-inflammatory diet. Also Glucosemine is quite widely recommended. Voltaren is great. Seems to do the trick instantly.
    Look into BFST wraps. They promote blood flow through the area you are treating. Helps prevent inflammation from building up. Do a treatment before playing and see if you feel better after some time of doing it routinely. Can't fix arthritis but can manage it.
    Might be worth trying. - Tendonitis, Tendinitis, Tendinosis and Tendon Injury Treatment