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  1. #1

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    While every generation feels its contributions to culture and arts is the best. And that previous generations contributions are no longer Hip and worthy of serious attention. I feel that today's generation including many older folks have lost a serious connection to actual music as an audio experience as opposed to a visual and strictly lyric based one. Iphones and laptops have actually changed how we listen,interact,and have given everyone incredible powers to reach a larger number of people.

    And while this is maybe a positive step in many areas, I feel music has actually suffered. I can't tell you how many people who have no business being called musicians try and call themselves that w/out any regards to their lack of any talent or ability.And while I can appreciate each successive generation has different musical styles, actual talent and musical ability shouldn't be lessened in the process. Each generation should take lessons from the past and add to it and change it. Just as Dizzy succeeded Louis Armstrong and Miles Davis moved the music forward from there.

    But now with people actually using computers to do the actual musical performance instead of musicians,it cheapens the music. And allows anyone to claim they are composers, musicians ,arrangers,etc. If that is true of music,why not the same with any other profession or serious endevour of study as well.
    Even as a kid I always realized musicians like Joe Pass, B.B.King, Glenn Campbell were superior players with serious musical abilities.

    But now we have Kanye West and others like him claiming themselves to be musical genius's with no actual musical skills. But because they sell to the masses it makes them valid?Just because McDonald's sells billions of hamburgers does it make it equal to a 4 Star meal at a fine restaurant? I sadly see all of the actual talented musicians leaving music, due to their actual talents not being compensated. And while there are still many fine younger musicians especially through colleges. They no longer have any way of making any kind of actual living for it as a profession any longer.

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  3. #2

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    Amen!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  4. #3

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    You know, every generation says the same thing: they all have this "things ain't what they used to be", "things were better in the old days" attitude. Get off my lawn! LOL But, I think this time, it's completely valid. I think music has reached a tipping point (along with many things in our culture/society), where music not only isn't as good as it used to be (and I'm not just talking about "my" music, I'm talking about all the way back to the 1920's early jazz), but it doesn't MEAN ANYTHING to people anymore.

    For example, Bob Seger is selling out shows at 74, ain't no way Kanye is going to be selling out anything at 74. Music is now static; it always has been for alot of people, but it also had staying power... and I'm not talking about on the charts, but in their souls. People at 60 years old will go see a Bob Seger show and reminisce to "Night Moves" ... no one will be at a Kanye west show when they're 60 reminiscing to "Through The Wire". Music has become the "flavor of the month" to most people nowadays.... much more so than any other time in history, imo. I'm quite sure digital downloads and the death of radio have something to do with it, but it goes much deeper than that. We have become a "disposable" society, never clinging to anything for long, always moving on to the "next thing."

    Done, done and I'm on to the next one
    Done, done and I'm on to the next one
    Done, done and I'm on to the next one
    Done, done and I'm on to the next one
    -Dave Grohl, Foo Fighters' "All My Life"


    I think it started in the 90s. I wonder if there will be "grunge cruises" like there are "Hair Metal" cruises and "blues" cruises and "80s" cruises lol.... I doubt it.

    On the plus side.... something is happening, at least in my circles, that never happened before....

    Kids are listening to much older music. While I realize kids have always, by happenstance, listened to their parents' music, they are doing it BY CHOICE now. When a 16-year old girl is listening to Queen... of her own accord... because she discovered them on the internet... and Led Zeppelin (make no mistake: she's also listening to Panic At The Disco, lol).... something else is happening. While digital downloads, youtube, and the internet have killed artist profits from selling actual albums, the ACCESS to all music has greatly improved, and with the virtual death of radio, kids aren't being pigeon-holed in what to listen to by "Top 30" rotations all day every day. There IS an upside.

    Caveat/disclaimer:
    I'm not saying no one is making good music these days. It IS out there. It's just not as ubiquitous as it has been in the past, with the death of radio and large record label marketing campaigns. It used to be, artists didn't really make money touring, they toured for exposure to make money from selling records and radio airplay royalties. Now it's the opposite: they tour because they HAVE to to pay the bills (unless they are Kanye or Beyonce, of course). But there's good music out there, you just have to look for it.

  5. #4

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    I think the cream will always rise to the top. It may just take longer sometimes. Many who are big sellers now will be mostly forgotten in the future. Many of those now considered greats sell far more albums now than they did when they were alive.

    I think understand though. I sometimes feel that we have been in a lull of creativity or a while now.

  6. #5

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    What I find bizarre is that people will pay huge prices to see their favourite pop stars not singing but miming to a recorded copy of their vocal (so that they can concentrate on the dance routine or whatever) and there is no band on stage, because the band has also been replaced by a backing track.

    That the audience sees nothing strange in this is quite depressing.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    What I find bizarre is that people will pay huge prices to see their favourite pop stars not singing but miming to a recorded copy of their vocal (so that they can concentrate on the dance routine or whatever) and there is no band on stage, because the band has also been replaced by a backing track.

    That the audience sees nothing strange in this is quite depressing.
    It's all about expectations and what seems normal. They grew up with it.

  8. #7

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    I think Kanye makes a lot of really fresh, interesting sounding music, personally.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    And while there are still many fine younger musicians especially through colleges. They no longer have any way of making any kind of actual living for it as a profession any longer.
    I think we all need to get past the idea that people need to be able to make a full time living by being a musician, in order to have great music. I fully recognize that we are not gonna get past it by me posting about it, but, the economics of the music have changed and will continue to change, and the current trend seems to me (anecdotally) that most musicians now need to supplement their income through teaching, or other ways.

    I actually think that the music scene is in great shape: there are TONS of musicians of all ages collaborating, making great music, and the barrier of entry to becoming a musician has never been lower. The jazz scene in particular seems diverse in a way to me now that it just wasn't 20 years ago.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    What I find bizarre is that people will pay huge prices to see their favourite pop stars not singing but miming to a recorded copy of their vocal (so that they can concentrate on the dance routine or whatever) and there is no band on stage, because the band has also been replaced by a backing track.

    That the audience sees nothing strange in this is quite depressing.
    I feel the same way but then I think: IF the main thing FOR THEM is go dance and socialize, then pre-recorded music may be preferable: it's the same everytime.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  11. #10
    Kanye West is a self promoter who is his own biggest fan. And while a little of that is nescessary, he is bordering on egomania. Most genius and talented people are not in need of such proclamations,especially when describing themselves.
    Kanye is indicative of what in my opinion is wrong with not only music, but how lost we are as a society and relating to each other.

    I find while there are a plethora of competent younger musicians,there is a profound lack of actual music itself. And this is true in any genre which there is. It's about hyping one's own stock portfolio rather than actual musical content or integrity.
    Jazz especially suffers the worst in my opinion, since it requires not only technical skills but true introspection. And to me when Blues and Gospel left all forms of music. It left all music without a "Soul".

    Louis Armstrong, Merle Haggard, Jimi Hendrix, The Beatles,etc.. all had this in their musical performances. Today it feels extremely contrived and without real Swing, Neck, Soul, etc. And in the few instances that it does have it like Bruno Mars, Pink,Lady Gaga.
    the music itself is weak and or formulated on safe and older formulas.
    I for one would much rather hear the real deal such as James Brown, Albert King,George Jones, Miles Davis, or Bob Dylan than some watered down copied newer version. For me, Sting and The Police were the last great Rock Pop band to actually do anything to further actual music.

    As so eloquently said by John McGlaughlin "Where's the Blood in it?"

  12. #11
    To the post concerning getting over being a full time musician in order to have great music. Couldn't disagree more with that statement. Anyone who is great at what they do sports,medicine, carpentry, plumbing, is a full time pro.
    You won't find part time Pro Athletes, Surgeons, etc. Why do you think music requires any less dedication or respect? Show me a great musician from Glenn Campbell to Joshua Bell that exists today?

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    To the post concerning getting over being a full time musician in order to have great music. Couldn't disagree more with that statement. Anyone who is great at what they do sports,medicine, carpentry, plumbing, is a full time pro.
    You won't find part time Pro Athletes, Surgeons, etc. Why do you think music requires any less dedication or respect? Show me a great musician from Glenn Campbell to Joshua Bell that exists today?
    Pro athletes, doctors, carpenters, pluming etc. do not earn most of their incomes from teaching their subjects or rely on other side jobs. So based on your criteria, 99% of those who consider themselves full time pro-musicians are disqualified from even having a shot at making great music as it's really rare for someone to earn their full income from making music. In those other professions, people actually earn their income from playing matches, fixing plumbing, making furnitures or healing patients.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    I can't tell you how many people who have no business being called musicians try and call themselves that w/out any regards to their lack of any talent or ability.And while I can appreciate each successive generation has different musical styles, actual talent and musical ability shouldn't be lessened in the process.

    Many of the superstar musicians who produce garbage are actually talented musicians in their own rights. Kanye West, Justin Beiber, Rihana, Lady Gaga etc. as much as I don't like their music, I wouldn't say they lack musical talent. I wouldn't be surprised if they are fundamentally more gifted than most people who are trying to make it as jazz pro's or other kind of elevated music. They are not just pretty faces (in particular Lady Gaga ).
    The real problem is not the lack of talent to produce good music, the problem is what the people who invest money in producing music think public wants. They want as easy and risk-free cash they can get for their investments. Blame them or the audience who buy into it.

  15. #14

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    Internet

    Instant satisfaction for free. Easy to jump from thing to thing, consuming small bites. An overwhelming amount of content.

    And where the extraordinary has become ordinary. What if someone like Tom Quayle would have had those skills in 1975. I think he would have been mentioned with the likes of Holdsworth, Beck,Dimeola, McGlaughlin. Now-a-days, pretty much unknown.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Internet

    Instant satisfaction for free. Easy to jump from thing to thing, consuming small bites. An overwhelming amount of content.

    And where the extraordinary has become ordinary. What if someone like Tom Quayle would have had those skills in 1975. I think he would have been mentioned with the likes of Holdsworth, Beck,Dimeola, McGlaughlin. Now-a-days, pretty much unknown.
    ...AND where the ordinary has been exalted to EXTRAordinary. Not just with music... EVERYTHING is "wow!" "so cool!" "awesome!" You look SO hot, girl!" "OMG she's SUCH a bi&*C!".... in today's culture, only the overblown gets any attention, so much so IT has become the new normal. It's like most people are living in a reality tv show, in their ACTUAL lives, all the time!

    I watched an interview with Steve Lukather this morning, and he said "life is SO LOUD these days! Everything is so loud! Life is so IN YOUR FACE!" I know exactly what he meant, and it's referring to your entire post and my reply.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    ...AND where the ordinary has been exalted to EXTRAordinary. Not just with music... EVERYTHING is "wow!" "so cool!" "awesome!" You look SO hot, girl!" "OMG she's SUCH a bi&*C!".... in today's culture, only the overblown gets any attention, so much so IT has become the new normal. It's like most people are living in a reality tv show, in their ACTUAL lives, all the time!

    I watched an interview with Steve Lukather this morning, and he said "life is SO LOUD these days! Everything is so loud! Life is so IN YOUR FACE!" I know exactly what he meant, and it's referring to your entire post and my reply.

    Oh, man, this drives me crazy.

    It seems everything is "amazing" these days. I think I've been truly amazed maybe 3 times in my life.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  18. #17
    I've never really listen to Kanye. I don't know why it matters what other people think of him. I just have a different perspective on everything these days. As a pure music consumer, and only wearing that hat for the moment, I basically get to listen the music I want and only the music I want , without all the other crap with commercials on it etc.

    I couldn't do that when I was a kid for sure. Anyway, wonder if maybe things wouldn't be different in terms of pop music if we didn't have so much choice to turn it off in the first place. I listen to a lot of my daughter's music when I'm with her. She is pretty good tastes, and there are some good new artists out there with you find them.

    As noted above, my kids listen to hundred times more music of previous generations than any of us did as kids I think. I'm talking like 70 years worth of music.

    Anyway, I don't really care how bad the music is that other people are listening to.

  19. #18

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    Kanye is a bit of a searcher. Overall I don't think he's doing too badly for someone who has a modicum of musical background or education. He has pretty good feel and he seems to have good instinctive time.

    I've seen a few things he has done via YouTube... they grooved, and it was rocking. I can see the appeal.
    Last edited by geogio; 06-18-2019 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Mispelling

  20. #19

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    I think you could pick a more deserving target than Kanye West. It may not be your thing, but saying that what he does musically does not require talent is just silly. It may be a different kind of talent than it takes to play jazz, but it takes talent. Also, the dude clearly suffers from some sort of mental illness, so let’s not let judgements on his personality get in the way of judgements on his talent. Two different things.

    Now, to play the role of the curmudgeon myself, my elementary-school-aged kids are into a DJ called Marshmello. Give one of his records a few listens then let’s talk about Kanye West’s lack of talent.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Now, to play the role of the curmudgeon myself, my elementary-school-aged kids are into a DJ called Marshmello. Give one of his records a few listens then let’s talk about Kanye West’s lack of talent.
    My admittedly brief research on this subject leads me to conclude that Mr. Marshmello’s talent consists entirely of wearing a creepy white bucket on his head and being autotuned ad nauseam.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I think Kanye makes a lot of really fresh, interesting sounding music, personally.
    His old stuff, I would agree.

    His new stuff, not so much.

    I wish Kendrick Lamar would go back to his old sound too, but then he wouldn't be innovating (though, I think he sounds more pop these days )

    By the way, the middle schoolers I taught listened to DJ Marsh-mellow. They also listened to Cardi B and XXXTentacion. I have no problem with that--some listened to ATCQ (that got me excited). What I didn't understand was that when I made references to Family Guy or The Simpsons, they would say "oh, my parents don't let me watch that stuff." Wait, what? And in the next breadth, you're singing a Cardi B song about seduction? That, I don't get

  23. #22
    How many here have made a living as a professional musician most of their lives? I have and have always been able to somehow keep up with all of the stylistic changes. I'm 62 years old and realize pretty much I have aged out of the entire scene.
    But there are really no music scenes that have any real music or serious content any longer. What we have been inundated with is amateurs who have real jobs to support their hobby and or their Harley Davidson lifestyle for lack of a better description.

    I can't tell you how many gigs in the last 10 years since the Iphone,Youtube,etc. I have played with amateurs having no business playing gigs. By this I mean people who act as though they are on par with real pros. They don't even have their rudiments and or repetoire together enough,yet they just feel this sure is fun for me.
    I never ever dared to go on someone's gig unless I was invited and felt I could hang for the most part. There have always been a bit of this,but usually you'd get booted off stage politely or not politely.

    I say most of this because I've never experienced such an attitude of self entitlement of so called posers who don't play the guitar but rather have the right look and pedals for the gig. And while most people have always liked banal music for the most part. It always had mostly pros involved in somehow,even at the bar level. Now it's only about how one's "Cool Persona" appears, and forget the actual talent or musical ability. Again there are exceptions,but way too few!

  24. #23

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    So much great new music being produced these days, more than I can listen to. A large amount being made by highly motivated people making huge sacrifices to put it out there.

    However, I do guarantee you this...there is also a huge amount of perhaps even better music that is not being made, because the financial sacrifice is too great for some artists to produce without some kind of economc return. Should wives and children and families go without anything for the sake of jazz?? I'm sure there are forum members who have made their decisions in favor of this, and we lose some good music in the process. I guess this has been the fate of jazz music for a very long time.

  25. #24
    Please name actual great music in any genre being made today.not great playing but actual compositions that are on par with past greats or groundbreaking in a new musical way. I have yet to find anything that is close to anything great,and I have been looking for awhile.
    My litmus test as great would perhaps be the following in different genres'

    Rock&Pop: Beatles, Brian Wilson, Motown,James Brown, Stax Volt, The Police, The Eagles, Steely Dan, Gino Vanelli

    Blues: Muddy Waters,Howlin Wolf, B.B., Albert and Freddy King, Taj Mahal, Keb Mo, Bonnie Ratt, Ray Charles

    Jazz: Louis Armstrong,Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis and all of his various groups and their groups as well (Weather Report,Mahavishnu, ) Pat Metheny,

    The Great American Songbook interpreted by Ella,Frank, Julie London,anda plethora of others

  26. #25

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    I see the future in mixing with the world music. It's a very exciting territory. Khruangbin opened my eyes. If you haven't heard this band, check them out, the most exciting music I've heard in this decade.

  27. #26
    Wow. Great thread. I'll leave you to it...

  28. #27
    Believe me I've been trying to find it, LOL!

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Please name actual great music in any genre being made today.not great playing but actual compositions that are on par with past greats or groundbreaking in a new musical way. I have yet to find anything that is close to anything great,and I have been looking for awhile.
    My litmus test as great would perhaps be the following in different genres'

    Rock&Pop: Beatles, Brian Wilson, Motown,James Brown, Stax Volt, The Police, The Eagles, Steely Dan, Gino Vanelli

    Blues: Muddy Waters,Howlin Wolf, B.B., Albert and Freddy King, Taj Mahal, Keb Mo, Bonnie Ratt, Ray Charles

    Jazz: Louis Armstrong,Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis and all of his various groups and their groups as well (Weather Report,Mahavishnu, ) Pat Metheny,

    The Great American Songbook interpreted by Ella,Frank, Julie London,anda plethora of others

    Well, I can't say there's anything "groundbreaking" in blues, pop, or rock...

    But Jim Campilongo is doing some unique things, imo. He may not be "jazz" (whatever that is), but he certainly has the jazz mentality.

    Steve Vai is making music like no one else has made. He's not just another shredder, for those of you who dismiss shredders outright.

    >I believe both Campilongo and Vai will be remembered as innovators; more likely Vai simply because he's much more known in larger circles. With Campilongo more in the Roy Buchanan/Jimmy Bryant camp of innovators.

    Nothing Andy Timmons is doing is "groundbreaking", but it's wonderful music, wonderful, melodic compositions. He's even got a Bossa Nova album full of juicy STRAT playing.

    Tab Benoit, while basically a "blues" player, is a little more unique in that he's sort of cajun blues, with R&B/Soul mixed in... the blues isn't unique, but he has a unique take on them.

    I'm sure there's more, I'm just too lazy to get up from drinking my morning coffee to get my ipod LOL.


    But regarding Armstrong, et al.... I'm with you. Those days are over. And it's not just in music, it's in all parts of culture.... but that's much more broad a topic than I'm willing to discuss on a jazz guitar forum LOL.

  30. #29

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    Compared to the Eagles... (these youngsters are much better imo)



    Jazz, these youngsters bring a new vibe and energy



    Young progressive bluegrass players:



    And a young lady. Molly Tuttle with her incredible right hand picking:

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  31. #30

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    Jim & Fep for the win.

    I understand the argument that "there isn't any good music these days" as I once subscribed to that notion.

    However, one poster on JGF said the following "there has always been crappy pop music--in every decade"

    There's great music being made in the here and now that respects the past and looks to the future.

    Remember, Miles always wanted to innovate. He'd had to be stuck playing My Funny Valentine the same way he did in the '50s.



    Yeah, I love that song



    Chad LB is becoming one of my top new sax players--plus he plays with someone I know (but I can't talk about on JGF)


  32. #31

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    In the old days there were plenty of old farts telling everyone anything not classical music was trash.

  33. #32

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    You're not looking hard enough, Jads.

    By the way, a lot of these recommendations came from professional musicians (around my age bracket) who've played with the likes of John Pizzarelli, Jeff Hamilton, John Clayton, Jimmy Heath... the list goes on.

  34. #33

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    So while I do think there is good music I do think there are two things that have changed (I’m NOT talking about chart pop here):

    1) primary medium is YouTube videos and streaming not audio releases

    2) shorter attention span listening. This leaves many songs having a half finished quality - not everything but some artists.

    3) Things that work in a YouTube setting. I have great difficulty watching Jacob colliers latest without feeling its totally built around the medium of YouTube and effective only in terms of the demands of the form - the randomly featured guest artists, the extremely virtuoso riff on a well known song and of course the trademark visuals. JC is the YT musician par excellence. This may be a profound generational divide. I like albums and songs.

    4) Music seems to have lost its capacity to shock (I’m not talking about lyrics) - so much of what I hear seems to be a direct lift from the music of the past - but not developed. There are many exceptions I’m glad to say, but it doesn’t feel like there’s a coherent movement in the way that perhaps there was in previous decades - folk rock, psychedelia, prog, punk, grunge etc.

    I find Knower frustrating in this regard. Their music started off feeling really fresh and new. Now it’s increasingly fantastically executed jazz funk.

    5) the level of capability has never been higher. Everyone says it. However the gigging circuit which favoured artists that could communicate with and energise an audience above the merely musically capable and acted as a crucible for these qualities has dried up. This is a problem because the history of pop and even to an extent jazz featured musicians who were not necessarily the most technically capable but had a quality that connected with audiences in a special way. (Interestingly, while I am thinking of likes of Dylan and Lennon, I recall that Gary Burton identified this as Metheny’s greatest gift.)

    The time of four guys playing live in grimy clubs and killing it leading to word of mouth and eventual wider fame are well behind us. Everything is massively online and this has changed the whole form.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    I see the future in mixing with the world music. It's a very exciting territory. Khruangbin opened my eyes. If you haven't heard this band, check them out, the most exciting music I've heard in this decade.
    Glad you think so too!

  36. #35

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    Chris'77

    What about this:


  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Chris'77

    What about this:

    Seen it. I quite liked it.

  38. #37

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    I'm not keen on the argument of "ground breaking"

    I love the 'Stones, but was all of their music ground breaking and new?

    I love the Doors, but was all of their music ground breaking and new?

    I love the Allman Brother's, but was all of their music ground breaking and new?

    Most of the bands in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, onward--they used older music and mixed up a bit--put their stamp on it to breath live into it once more.

    And don't make me quote the Big Lebowski on The Eagles...

  39. #38

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    Some contemporary things I like

    St Vincent
    Apartment Sessions (hit and miss, but always worth checking out)
    Kruangbin
    Tinariwen (and all the other Saharan blues stuff)
    Yemen Blues
    Tootard
    Molly Tuttle
    Frigg
    Punch Brothers (Chris Thile generally)
    Donny McCaslin quartet
    Eiko Ishibashi
    Imperial Triumphant

    If you want to listen to some jazz guitar, Rob Luft has put some really nice stuff out. He’s becoming a bit of a phenom.

    Also Julian Lage, of course. His music feels like it’s going beyond jazz. There’s a lot of Americana in his work.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I'm not keen on the argument of "ground breaking"

    I love the 'Stones, but was all of their music ground breaking and new?

    I love the Doors, but was all of their music ground breaking and new?.
    Well yes it was. Or at least enough of it was.

    But yes they did try to copy the music of the past. The REALLY important point is they weren’t very good at it.

    Problem is musicians have got a lot better at copying things partly because the technology makes it much easier to do so. Many a great band tried to copy something and got it wrong.

    The instrumentalists in the doors probably wanted to play modal jazz.

    The Stones wanted to play Chicago blues.

    They got it wrong and invented something new by accident.

    Apparently Radiohead we’re trying to copy Birches Brew and ended up with Ok Computer. (Not sure how seriously I take that?)

    There’s also a bit of tendency I think for musicians to stay within their genre and instrument for influences.

  41. #40
    So as stated above the actual way music is listened to has changed as well as how it's made. And mainly those filters from the the past being in place such as expensive to record, and not having auto correct or computers to do the work for you. Now the Entertainment angle especially visually is what really counts most.
    And while it can be argued this has always been true,those filters I mention separate the wannabes from the actual talent.

    I've heard most of these acts in above videos,and while they me very worthy of airplay and selling to the normal Pop crowd,Alternative,etc. Do they really move te bar forward in a significant way? The music itself is where I have the difficulty finding greatness. Where are the great songs wether it be Jaco Pastorius, John Lennon, Willie Nelson, Sting, etc?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Some contemporary things I like

    St Vincent
    Apartment Sessions (hit and miss, but always worth checking out)
    Kruangbin
    Tinariwen (and all the other Saharan blues stuff)
    Yemen Blues
    Tootard
    Molly Tuttle
    Frigg
    Punch Brothers (Chris Thile generally)
    Donny McCaslin quartet
    Eiko Ishibashi
    Imperial Triumphant

    If you want to listen to some jazz guitar, Rob Luft has put some really nice stuff out. He’s becoming a bit of a phenom.

    Also Julian Lage, of course. His music feels like it’s going beyond jazz. There’s a lot of Americana in his work.
    Wait, Imperial Triumphant?? The metal band??

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    In the old days there were plenty of old farts telling everyone anything not classical music was trash.
    Yep
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  44. #43

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    gazooks - we can't be expecting all entertainment to be art now can we? ... give the pin heads a break ....

  45. #44

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    Maybe we need sommah that Ayy-tonal Musik in our pop to make it "ground breaking"


  46. #45

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    At the risk of repeating myself, but the only 'problem' I have with today's music, which is not really a problem, just an observation- there are no social impact from any music today. Music doesn't define a lifestyle, fashion, attitude etc. More like just a commodity. Which is ok I guess, but I feel lucky growing up in different time.

    Btw, I work part time as Rock Band teacher in a music school, so I base my observation on a sociological survey.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Apparently Radiohead we’re trying to copy Birches Brew and ended up with Ok Computer. (Not sure how seriously I take that?)
    Don’t give it a second thought...

  48. #47
    I find it ironic that even the Jazzguitar.be forum most people are comfortable with todays mediocre offerings. Have we all become numb and incapable of seeing through hype vs. actual content. The point is it's not the playing ability nor the genre, but the actual shallowness of the songs or the lack of balls,guts,soul,etc.

    And I'm not talking about yelling,screaming or fast technical prowess. James Brown,Ray Charles,John Coltrane. Jaco Pastorius, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanon, Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino, Joe Pass, George Benson,etc These guys had commitment to their performances and material.

    I can point to very few new players other than the few Jazz artists such as Christian McBride,Chris Potter,etc that play with this commitment. Yes there are studio guys like Brent Mason, Eddie Bayers (drums),BryanSutton, etc out of Nashville that also have equal skills and groove! But they don't look to change the direction of the actual music.

    I'm afraid we now live in the world of Video Hype and Self Promotion as the normal acceptance. And unfortunately we've all drunk the Kool Aid and are content with it.
    I never in a million years would get into music given these parameters and lack of adventurousness as kid starting out. Maybe the Magic is elsewhere in other new technologies instead of the arts.

    By the way,not a Classical Affecionado myself. But don't you find it incredibly sad that Orchestras around the USA are being laid off and let go. Or even worse forced to play Pop Music or Movie Themes to continue. Wow, can you imagine Jimi Hendrix being told unless you start playing some Rap, you are FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive View Post
    At the risk of repeating myself, but the only 'problem' I have with today's music, which is not really a problem, just an observation- there are no social impact from any music today. Music doesn't define a lifestyle, fashion, attitude etc. More like just a commodity. Which is ok I guess, but I feel lucky growing up in different time.

    Btw, I work part time as Rock Band teacher in a music school, so I base my observation on a sociological survey.
    Well, the second any band says anything political... well, you know...

    I agree about it being a commodity for the most part, that's the least offensive. I wonder if it's different in Canada?

    Ironic that people are comfortable with today's pop? Wasn't jazz music predicated on the pop of the day, at least for a while?

    I brought up this point months ago, and people said "jazz fans aren't like that"

    I don't want to rehash that thread, I just want you all to see I wasn't far from the truth

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by rictroll View Post
    Don’t give it a second thought...
    Thom Yorke is a joker for sure

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    I find it ironic that even the Jazzguitar.be forum most people are comfortable with todays mediocre offerings. Have we all become numb and incapable of seeing through hype vs. actual content. The point is it's not the playing ability nor the genre, but the actual shallowness of the songs or the lack of balls,guts,soul,etc.

    And I'm not talking about yelling,screaming or fast technical prowess. James Brown,Ray Charles,John Coltrane. Jaco Pastorius, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanon, Wes Montgomery, Pat Martino, Joe Pass, George Benson,etc These guys had commitment to their performances and material.

    I can point to very few new players other than the few Jazz artists such as Christian McBride,Chris Potter,etc that play with this commitment. Yes there are studio guys like Brent Mason, Eddie Bayers (drums),BryanSutton, etc out of Nashville that also have equal skills and groove! But they don't look to change the direction of the actual music.

    I'm afraid we now live in the world of Video Hype and Self Promotion as the normal acceptance. And unfortunately we've all drunk the Kool Aid and are content with it.
    I never in a million years would get into music given these parameters and lack of adventurousness as kid starting out. Maybe the Magic is elsewhere in other new technologies instead of the arts.

    By the way,not a Classical Affecionado myself. But don't you find it incredibly sad that Orchestras around the USA are being laid off and let go. Or even worse forced to play Pop Music or Movie Themes to continue. Wow, can you imagine Jimi Hendrix being told unless you start playing some Rap, you are FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!
    There is some truth to what you say.

    OTOH I can't help but feel your position is a self fulfilling prophecy. And to say there are only meagre offerings out there I think is doing a massive disservice to what there is. I mean there are musicians out there trying to put work out that means something to them, and you come up against this sort of attitude. Bleh.

    The utter collapse of the music industry does offer some degree of freedom... Now only if we didn't have to earn a living...