Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Posts 151 to 200 of 209
  1. #151

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    In Mozart’s era the orchestra wasn’t hidden, that was Wagners innovation
    Speaking of Wagner, a master of orchestration (old school lingo meaning mixing); -What would he have done if someone gave him a DAW?

    In addition to the old symphonic instruments, he would now have sound banks with thousands of synthetic instruments to play around with.... He would start by adding 75 tracks, then spend the first week playing around with drum machine patterns and the remaining 51 weeks tweaking EQs, compressors and a myriad of effects. Then when he realizes that the mix got too busy, he would cut all the tracks but the ambient pads, a drum machine and a synth bass, then call a Valkyria signed to his label to lay down some wailing....then he would play around with the auto tune system for a couple of months....then go to Africa to sample the locals... He wouldn't have much time left to compose, would he.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

    User Info Menu

    I think there has always been poor music that was liked by the masses. It was no different in the 60s and 70s ... Or later. Cringe worthy music has always been there and has always been succesful too.

    However the extreme thing about the current situation is that musical skills or having a good voice are no longer necessary at all to have a gazillion dollar career in music.

    DB

  4. #153
    Also the fact that most music is devoid of "Blues and Black Gospel " influence as well. No Ray Charles anywhere to be found in today's offerings

    That along with simple guitaristic triads has really dumned down any harmonic interest at least for me.

  5. #154

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Also the fact that most music is devoid of "Blues and Black Gospel " influence as well. No Ray Charles anywhere to be found in today's offerings

    That along with simple guitaristic triads has really dumned down any harmonic interest at least for me.
    If you have a hip leader on even commercial gigs, you can add those elements to what would otherwise be square music.
    I'm lucky enough to be doing "Mama Mia" with an MD that encourages creativity on the gigs. We did four shows over the weekend, and the bass player made even ABBA's music funky and exciting, I was doing fills wherever I wanted, and the MD was playing Ray Charles licks all over the place, even hopping over to grand piano when he really wanted to get down. All the venues had a grand piano where we were playing. The people loved it.

    It's great to be working with young cats half my age, who can hear and play anything. We played my arr. of "Gaucho" by the Dan before the show started, and the bass player played it like Chuck Rainey, even though he never played it before! Then, after the show, the MD and the bass player were performing opera arias for the audience in the lounge area, where they got standing ovations. The bass player can sing both pop and opera, and can even play the piano on a professional level. We played some instrumental parts of West Side Story before some other shows, note perfect. Wild weekend!

  6. #155

    User Info Menu

    Interesting that this idea so often about linear historical comparison which often ignores horizontal realtions between styles.

    Approximately from middle 20th century we live in multi-style cultural world where all the styles are presumably equal (or even equally vaulable - the othe side of democracy again).
    So some people can say: that was the music in old days speaking about pop of 70s or 0s and comparing it with modern pop?
    Whereas for some people (and I know them personally) there is not som much differentce in value between between pop-songs of 30s and modern ones...
    just becasue they belong to a different musical world and from that point of view all this is approximately the same...
    some would even go so far as to say that it is not even music))) just some relatively barble backgroud..

    I had a funny experience with a friend of mine - very profound classical musicians - very deeply living in that.
    He usually can appreciate and show respect to good jazz and pop like The Beatles but I always feel that this is still appreciation from outside, he can hear the originality and freshness and sympathize the personalities but overall he finds it too boring to really listen to it.
    So once his daughter sat and sang 'Hallelujah' by Cohen... and he said: what is this song? Sounds like 'Let It Be'.
    I laughed: come on! It is nothing like 'Let It Be'... maybe just general character, hymn-like style.. but the harmony and melody are very different...

    And then I realized that he does not hear this difference. For him it is just all approximately the same. And it does not matter if it is C -Am/C-Am.... or C-G/Am-F
    For his ear (yes extremly sensitive and culticated!) the musical result is approximately the same...

  7. #156
    While much of what I bemoan in today's music is lack of more sophisticated harmony, the real problem lies in the actual "Groove" of the performances
    When machines ( Pro Tools, Drum Machines, Sampling) are used in place of real musicians, as opposed to adding spice it feels stiff and lacks human feel.

    I'm not against any of these devices as seasonings for the music. But when they are the cheaper way out,and one or few people are involved. Chemistry as well as creativity are affected and not usually in a musical way.

    You used to have individual or musical identities associated with different parts of the USA . New Orleans with Alan Toussaint, Memphis with Isaac Hayes, Motown with the Funk Bros. Atlantic with Jerry Wexler and Tom Dowd, Los Angeles with The Wrecking Crew.
    Now everything is a younger producer with out any real musical training and samples trying to strictly go after sales. Without the musicians ,especially the ones with a deeper background it falls flat.

  8. #157

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog View Post

    However the extreme thing about the current situation is that musical skills or having a good voice are no longer necessary at all

    Let me expand on that by highlighting the genre called "Ambient Music";

    Wikipedia:
    "Ambient music focuses on creating a mood or atmosphere through synthesizers and timbral qualities, often lacking the presence of any net composition, beat, or structured melody. It uses textural layers of sound without prevalent musical tropes, rewarding both passive and active listening. Nature soundscapes are usually included, and the sounds of acoustic instruments such as the piano, strings and flute, among others, may be emulated through a synthesizer. According to its pioneers, "Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting.

    ...it has attained a certain degree of acclaim throughout the years, especially in the Internet age. "

    Current situation: From a small niche, this stuff has gradually been eating into most pop genres of today. Skills required: DAW editing and mixing.

    We've reached a point where sound is confused with music.

  9. #158

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by JCat View Post
    We've reached a point where sound is confused with music.
    Music is organised sound.

  10. #159

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve View Post
    Music is organised sound.
    Oh yes, but the logic is not reversible; the statement "sound is music" is false.

  11. #160
    Unfortunately non musicians could almost care less about actual music.Their interest lies in 2 things 1.) The Beat 2.)THE LYRICS !

    Music Producers and business care about only one thing $$$$$$$$$$

    This is today's predicamentwith the arts in general. Along with the Kardashian model of Fame and Fortune.

  12. #161

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    2.)THE LYRICS !
    They want something they can relate to and identify. They want storytelling and emotion.

    Why is that a bad thing?

  13. #162
    Because the MUSIC is like AIR! LYRICS are just poetry,or storytelling. And most important musicians and actual music writers are not treated importantly enough.
    Hence the lack of sophisticated harmony and dumbing down of music overall.

  14. #163

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Because the MUSIC is like AIR! LYRICS are just poetry,or storytelling. And most important musicians and actual music writers are not treated importantly enough.
    Hence the lack of sophisticated harmony and dumbing down of music overall.
    Charlie Parker liked the stories

  15. #164

    User Info Menu

    Sophisticated harmony is over rated

    Nice when it pops up


    But not a prerequisite for good music.

  16. #165

    User Info Menu

    just a tiny sampling...

    The Bands
    Chicago
    Tower Of Power
    War
    The Beach Boys
    The Beatles

    The Musicians
    Aretha Franklin
    Issac Hayes
    The Temptations, The Miracles
    Janis Joplin
    Dusty Springfield


    The Songwriters
    Burt Bacharach
    Carole King
    David Porter
    Smokey Robinson
    Marvin Gaye
    The entire Motown songwriting machine. Has there ever been one label that had as many hits as produced by the songwriting machine formerly known as Motown?

    The Record labels
    Capital records
    Atlantic records
    Motown, owner Berry Gordy
    Philadelphia Int'l records, owners Kenneth Gamble and Leon Huff

    Stax Records - talk about exceeding expectations! First initiated by Jim Stewart, a small town banker and his sister, started Satellite Records recording country and western music out of a garage. 3 years later Jim and his sister bought an old former movie theater in a poor part of Memphis, and over time invited anyone who could play to walk in. Otis Redding, a band's roadie, was one such "walk-in."

    The first 1962 house band of Stax Records - Booker T and the MG's. An interracial band in Memphis! 6 years before Dr. King would later be assassinated in Memphis.


    The Times
    The 60's, 70's were a perfect storm - A great time of social change, social unrest, the raising of social consciousness.

    I'm guessing there will never be a rich time in music like the 60's and 70's. But then again, I'm not just bias, I was there. Anyone who had ears knew a hit when they first heard it. I recall the first time I heard "our day will come" on a small hand held AM transistor radio and recognized it as a hit. Gone are the hits, the likes of which many of us commonly experienced in the days of our youth.

    Talk about a frame of reference...those were the era's! California and Detroit in the 60's, Philly in the 70's. This stuff today...meh
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  17. #166

    User Info Menu

    There's always been good and bad pop music... the fact that some things have gone away seem more coincidental than anything. I played some deliberately nostalgic jazz fusion with a sound strongly influenced by 70s fusion to a crowd of my peers (I am 23) and was met with an overwhelmingly positive response. People like good music, that's the end of the story. I went to a sold-out show with a poet and singer/songwriter who performed an entire set of both poems and songs alone, playing various guitars - this was at a hip, downtown venue with capacity for nearly two thousand(!) and which usually bills list-toppers, and here it was sold-out and just one GREAT artist with his guitar and his poems. He also featured an up-and-coming blues guitarist who played on 3 or so songs IIRC.
    The only issue, and the reason why I can't take my lovingly ironically titled "Analog Fusion Ensemble" on the road, is how "art"-music has become unsustainable (unless you skyrocket in popularity overnight and can efficiently use this momentum, as the two aforementioned have) - this isn't, IMO, indicative of a cultural problem, but an issue of capitalism and how it has affected the music biz in particular.

    And computers are a tool, not a problem. I just bought keyscape, so now I can "play" a bunch of instruments I could never otherwise have found or afforded - rhodes and wurlys, clavs and pianos... Likewise, I can tell my piano player that I want a CP-70 with a slow but wide vibrato effect, and we won't need to settle for anything less or bring in an actual CP and vibrato effect + amp. Just a couple of clicks away. Why can't tracks be part of a live music experience? In the shows I've done with tracks, we've used them for additional things and to provide the music experience that the set is supposed to be... additional vox, additional synths, additional effects, that sort of thing. We've still been a 6-piece ensemble, so I don't see the big issue.

    The issue a lot of people seem to have is with live music and it being primarily entertainment, this isn't new, and people seem to only be using "stadium" examples. This is what stadium-goers seem to want and I don't consider it to be a recent trend. It is in the nature of music purely as entertainment, or where the music is only a vehicle for something else. Kanye so obviously strikes a chord in people, why are people bothered by this?

    ...What I consider to be a cultural problem, is people choosing to be blind about good music being made today. Here's some stuff that I didn't get into before recently, but which is great music:






    and from the radio..:





    ...and if you haven't already, give this a listen. From 4:15 you can hear Cory Henry's already legendary solo on this tune.


    cool jazz stuff:




    ...what I'm getting is is that the music is definitely out there.

    edit: I wanted to add once more, that I agree about financial worries. We have ourselves to blame, for partaking in the market economy and for lowballing and for accepting low-paying gigs. We love what we do, and some people really know how to take advantage of that. I'm over sixty thousand dollars in the red, such is the life of a musician in the late capitalist nightmare. It'll get sorted one day, though. As the aforementioned poet said during his concert: "when you're digging a tunnel, you don't see the light at the end of it until you reach it".

  18. #167

    User Info Menu

    At least Britain's got musical talent.....


  19. #168

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov View Post
    They want something they can relate to and identify. They want storytelling and emotion.

    Why is that a bad thing?
    people just do not understand music. Music can be no less informative than texts (even more maybe).
    But as the text uses conventional language it is easier to associate with.
    Not that it is wrong but it is sad

  20. #169

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    At least Britain's got musical talent.....

    I’m not given to bouts of patriotism, but sometimes you have to make an exception.

  21. #170
    For all younger players, as nicely as I can say it. You're Music Sucks!
    You can post all the Snarkey Puppy you want to.And while the players are excellent technicians,most don't get it when it comes to actual Groove or Song Writing.

    I know I'm being extremely harsh on critique, but it's absolutely the truth. There is a lack of Soul Warmth, overall Feeling for lack of a better term, But as John McLaughlin said it best "Where's the. Blood?"

    No matter the MUSIC genre it seems to be about technical skills or strictly getting Facebbok Likes. And while you need both, you need the Spirit of the music first and foremost. Amd I still havent heard it yet.


    To the comment Charlie Parker liked stories. Why do you think Bepop Jazz was invented? To separate the musicians who were better players.
    As well as make listening music that wasn't just for dance .

    Listen in reality people in general don't listen as much watch entertainment. Which I totally understand. But with the advances in technology, we have way lowered the bar of the actual musical part of that art.


    So GET OFF MY LAWN, LOL!
    Last edited by jads57; 08-04-2019 at 06:35 PM.

  22. #171

    User Info Menu

    I have seen the future and it is the insufferable smugness of Snarky Puppy.

    We're doomed.

  23. #172

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    To the comment Charlie Parker liked stories. Why do you think Bepop Jazz was invented? To separate the musicians who were better players.
    As well as make listening music that wasn't just for dance.
    The rise of bebop was a little more complicated than that, and capitalism was one factor.
    How Taxes And Moving Changed The Sound Of Jazz : A Blog Supreme : NPR

  24. #173

    User Info Menu

    Snarkey Puppy no groove? Your case is serious.

  25. #174

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    The 60's, 70's were a perfect storm - A great time of social change, social unrest, the raising of social consciousness.

    I'm guessing there will never be a rich time in music like the 60's and 70's. But then again, I'm not just bias, I was there. Anyone who had ears knew a hit when they first heard it. I recall the first time I heard "our day will come" on a small hand held AM transistor radio and recognized it as a hit. Gone are the hits, the likes of which many of us commonly experienced in the days of our youth.

    Talk about a frame of reference...those were the era's! California and Detroit in the 60's, Philly in the 70's. This stuff today...meh
    Well, when I was a kid (born 1959) the hits were on the radio- the radio was king and primarily AM. FM with stereo came along with album-oriented rock and already the power of "the hits" was diminished. MTV came along when I was in college or very shortly after (graduated 1981) and reestablished "hits" but now the video was as or more important than the music. Now "hits" are limited to a relative handful of pop artists and I don't even know how today's kids find out about them- curated streaming on Spotify, news of Twitter, etc.?

    The thing is, "hits" to me still seem to the mainly the province of teenagers just like they were in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. The way in which they hear them has changed, but the dynamics are largely still there. My friends (almost all of us at or pushing 60) listen to "The Current" and things like that, but those outlets aren't playing "hits." At drive time I am listening either to the local jazz station or music on my phone plugged into my car stereo, which is where I do 90% or more of my music listening. I turn on the stereo at home probably less than 5 times a year... no "hits" on the jazz station or on my phone!

    As for "this stuff today," that's what my grandparents said about my parents' music, what my parents said about my music, and how I feel about Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, etc. It is the way of the world.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  26. #175

    User Info Menu

    2019, and welcome to the greatest hit EVER in history of the Billboard Hot 100, since it began in August 1958.....61 years ago....


  27. #176
    Now those are some seriously talented fellas both Charlie Parker as well as Mozart could appreciate,LOL!

  28. #177

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    2019, and welcome to the greatest hit EVER in history of the Billboard Hot 100, since it began in August 1958.....61 years ago....


    It's has those added 9s here and there that add a nice little amount of coolness to the track .. Billy Ray sounds killer and then there is the social awareness commenting being fake, black and maybe also gay .... What's not to like?

  29. #178

    User Info Menu

    OK, R&B meets Country, so what?
    The big sensation here, is that in 2019 the marketeers realized that two market segments combined means double income.

  30. #179

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    so what does a green youngster like you think I need to see?
    Hang on - how old are you if you think I'm a youngster?

    I'm far too old for the London young person jazz scene. It's like Logan's run, the crystal starts flashing and then the jazz police hunt you down. :-)

  31. #180

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    For all younger players, as nicely as I can say it. You're Music Sucks!
    You can post all the Snarkey Puppy you want to.And while the players are excellent technicians,most don't get it when it comes to actual Groove or Song Writing.

    I know I'm being extremely harsh on critique, but it's absolutely the truth. There is a lack of Soul Warmth, overall Feeling for lack of a better term, But as John McLaughlin said it best "Where's the. Blood?"

    No matter the MUSIC genre it seems to be about technical skills or strictly getting Facebbok Likes. And while you need both, you need the Spirit of the music first and foremost. Amd I still havent heard it yet.


    To the comment Charlie Parker liked stories. Why do you think Bepop Jazz was invented? To separate the musicians who were better players.
    As well as make listening music that wasn't just for dance .

    Listen in reality people in general don't listen as much watch entertainment. Which I totally understand. But with the advances in technology, we have way lowered the bar of the actual musical part of that art.


    So GET OFF MY LAWN, LOL!
    Don't worry, Jacob Collier will be along in a minute to do another cover.

  32. #181

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    Snarkey Puppy no groove? Your case is serious.
    I tried. They are too enthusiastic for me: the death of the cool.

  33. #182

    User Info Menu

    Some of you guys need educating
    So what if cool is dead?




  34. #183
    To those of you who think today's music is just fine. May I suggest a listen to
    Weather Report, especially the Jaco period. Steps Ahead the acoustic version, John McGlaughlins Trio w/ Trilok Gurtu, Chick Corea Light as a Feather,
    Steely Dan Asia,Goucho records,etc.

    When you find music that is not only performed at this level, but written it as well please let me know.


    Thanks John D

  35. #184

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    2019, and welcome to the greatest hit EVER in history of the Billboard Hot 100, since it began in August 1958.....61 years ago....

    haha. That was indeed depressing.

  36. #185

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    Some of you guys need educating
    So what if cool is dead?



    OK, so the first one is hip-hop. Not bad actually, but still hip-hop.

    And the second is R&B, but the singer ain't so great.

    So what does this have to do with jazz?

    Finally, how does anyone worth his salt go around saying "I play in Snarky Puppy"? No one will ever take you seriously as an artist if you go around saying that silly stuff for very long.

  37. #186

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    There is a lack of Soul Warmth, overall Feeling for lack of a better term
    Sigrid gives me hope. At the age of 22 she's a talented song writer and performer, her music is creative with exiting melodic strength. It's pop without traces of Afro-American music, but hey, there's good spirit.

    Sigrid is a singer/song writer influenced by Neil Young and Joni Mitchell. Not Jazz and far from Motown, but a fresh sound. And her music can be performed live with real instruments. Synths are OK when played live on keyboard



  38. #187

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post

    And the second is R&B, but the singer ain't so great.

    So what does this have to do with jazz?
    Right about the jazz, wrong about the singer, in this particular performance, anyway.

    Anyone saying that there's no groove nowadays is just not listening, or listening in the wrong places. Living in the past.

  39. #188
    There's so much good music today, jazz or all other styles.. Probably ain't making decent money at it, but lots of great players and bands out there, if someone has the aptitude to find them.

    Having said that, I do prefer older music from the 50s-60s. I think it's mostly the simpler, groovier rhythm section that does it for me.

  40. #189

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    Right about the jazz, wrong about the singer, in this particular performance, anyway.

    Anyone saying that there's no groove nowadays is just not listening, or listening in the wrong places. Living in the past.
    I didn't say "no groove". That was someone else. These days it's almost ALL groove - and not much else.


    I don't want to debate the singer. Most popular singers aren't very good.

  41. #190

    User Info Menu

    I tried to listen to every example posted here - -from 'fart art' to that Puppy band, to CW / R&B.......I was just wondering - -were all these vid's supposed to be evidence to support the OP's premise ?

    I understand completely that may not have been each posters' intent, but based on these, yup, I agree with the premise.

    Just MHO

  42. #191
    That is exactly my point in starting this thread. When I say no real Groove, I mean that we are at an all time low of actual content that is more than about sales of product.
    Bill Withers would be a great example of actual content in the Pop Vein.As well as The Police, Stevie Wonder, Joni Mitchell, Willie Nelson,etc.

    I just find just about every artist either like little kids playing at it. Or if they have talent like Lady Gaga, their compositions weak.

    I'm also acknowledging there were plenty of bad performers and songs in all previous eras as well. But there was still artist's who kept it alive and moving forward. Backwards and weak Copycats is pretty much what is the order of the day unfortunately.

  43. #192

    User Info Menu

    OK Jads, you win. Now this thread needs lyrics, something we can relate to and identify. Storytelling and emotion.
    Frank Zappa turns to us and speaks:

    The Muffin Man is seated at the table in the laboratory of the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen...
    Reaching for an oversized chrome spoon he gathers an intimate quantity of dried muffin remnants!
    And, brushing his scapular aside proceeds to dump these inside of his shirt
    He turns to us and speaks:
    "Some people like cupcakes better. I, for one care less for them!"
    Arrogantly twisting the sterile canvas snoot of a fully charged icing-anointment utensil
    he poots forth a quarter-ounce green rosette
    near the summit of a dense-but-radiant muffin of his own design
    Later he says:
    "Some people, some people like cupcakes exclusively
    While I myself I say there is naught, nor ought there be,
    nothing so exalted on the face of God's grey earth
    as that Prince of foods... the Muffin!"

    Girl, you thought he was a man
    But he was a muffin
    He hung around till you found
    That he didn't know nuthin'

    Girl, you thought he was a man
    But he only was a-puffin'
    No cries is heard in the night
    As a result of him stuffin'

    Note: The meaning of the song was never fully explained by Frank Zappa, and as such there are many interpretations. The "Muffin Man" of the song appears to be a food aficionado, one who has taken his love for muffins to a scientific and semi-religious level. More generally, he could represent fanaticism for a certain matter, that turns him away from other interests in life. In the chorus an unnamed "girl" is introduced, who appears to have been in a love affair with the muffin man, but her man was too focused on his research for the perfect muffin.

  44. #193
    I'm actually very sad about the music scene. I really would love to be wrong and was hoping to proven so with some great examples.
    Unfortunately because of my age perhaps , meaning been there and heard that already. And done much better by previous artists, I'm stuck with 10000 channels of 24/7 streaming of banal visual entertainment .

    Maybe the true artist's are in some other fields of endeavour, such as computing or IT technologies ?

  45. #194

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    ...I'm stuck with 10000 channels of 24/7 streaming of banal visual entertainment...
    I think you are on to something there... there has been a massive cultural technological shift from emphasis on the ear to the eye.

    People used to gathering in their homes in the evening to play instruments and sing songs. Then came listening to the radio, and later listening to records... these were aural modes.

    Then came the dominance of movies, TV, then computer screens, laptop screens, screens at ATMs to withdraw money from the bank, tablet and phone screens, screens at the supermarket point of sale to self check out grocery purchases or at the fast food drive through, screens at the fuel pump to fill the car's tank... even the cars have screens now. It is common to go to a restaurant and be surrounded by screens. The bill boards are now giant screens. These are visual modes.
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  46. #195

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    The rise of bebop was a little more complicated than that, and capitalism was one factor.
    How Taxes And Moving Changed The Sound Of Jazz : A Blog Supreme : NPR
    Yes, but that article does not go far enough. In fact it dismisses obvious facts that were equally as responsible for bebop's creation.

    One could argue that racial tensions and racial barriers of the day were far more responsible for the creation of bebop than the tax man.

    Bebop was rebellious music. What was bebop rebelling against? Similarly, hiphop was the rebellious music of its day, for the same reasons. Cultural diversity, social instability, and economic disparity.

    Can anyone see it?
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  47. #196

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    I really would love to be wrong and was hoping to proven so with some great examples.
    Brother, we grew up in and lived those times. Our music was a reflection of our times.

    The times are different. We had AM transistor radios. Heck boom boxes didn't even come along until the mid to late 70's. These kids today use an iPhone and think all music is, or should be, free. So I'm not surprised that the music industry has been laid waste. The times are gone. The music is gone. But never forgotten. Thank goodness for record collections!

    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  48. #197
    That's the problem so much Mediocre Product! It takes time,talent and patience,wether it's Music,Film,Food,etc.
    But people want everything fast and to be credited for their lack of work,talent,and don't care if it's truly deserved.

    Man back in the day,no one dared just got up on stage without some sort of experience. You'd be seriously made of by everyone. Now they feel entitled and can't see the difference between that and actual professionals.

    Kanye West is the perfect example of I'm Great because I say so! It was bad enough living in L.A. back in the 1980's But now with Social Media,it's as though the world has become one big B.S. Stage for the general public. And there are no longer filters in place to weed out the CRAP!

  49. #198

    User Info Menu

    Speaking of STAX...Where's the next 17 year old Booker T? Talk about groove...

    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  50. #199

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    That's the problem so much Mediocre Product! It takes time,talent and patience,wether it's Music,Film,Food,etc.
    But people want everything fast and to be credited for their lack of work,talent,and don't care if it's truly deserved.

    Man back in the day,no one dared just got up on stage without some sort of experience. You'd be seriously made of by everyone. Now they feel entitled and can't see the difference between that and actual professionals.

    Kanye West is the perfect example of I'm Great because I say so! It was bad enough living in L.A. back in the 1980's But now with Social Media,it's as though the world has become one big B.S. Stage for the general public. And there are no longer filters in place to weed out the CRAP!
    Yes, AND there isn't the support system that created the artists, and bands that created the song writing of yesteryear. The schools have virtually been stripped of music study. Imagine if we didn't have the opportunity to play an instrument in band as a kid? Or march in parades in junior high, or play in football rally's and halftime shows...well, I was in the locker room during halftime but you get my gist.

    It was opportunity too that created Motown, and Philly Int'l records for the times dictated this mass musical uprising. Imagine life without Sigma Sound Studios and all those MFSB backed recordings out of Philadelphia. No Billy Paul, Teddy Pendergrass, etc., etc., etc.

    Even the 90's had legitimate artists and hits....times have changed.
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  51. #200

    User Info Menu

    And I'm glad someone mentioned movies / films, too. I know that'd be an entirely different thread, but we'd already have a good start.

    And while it may not exactly have all the same particulars, there are many similarities.

    And films don't have a groove anymore either, but man we have shift-changing superheroes, and graphics up the ***.

    Yup, we got graphics alright !

    Oh well........MHO