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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    In Mozart’s era the orchestra wasn’t hidden, that was Wagners innovation
    Speaking of Wagner, a master of orchestration (old school lingo meaning mixing); -What would he have done if someone gave him a DAW?

    In addition to the old symphonic instruments, he would now have sound banks with thousands of synthetic instruments to play around with.... He would start by adding 75 tracks, then spend the first week playing around with drum machine patterns and the remaining 51 weeks tweaking EQs, compressors and a myriad of effects. Then when he realizes that the mix got too busy, he would cut all the tracks but the ambient pads, a drum machine and a synth bass, then call a Valkyria signed to his label to lay down some wailing....then he would play around with the auto tune system for a couple of months....then go to Africa to sample the locals... He wouldn't have much time left to compose, would he.

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  3. #152

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    I think there has always been poor music that was liked by the masses. It was no different in the 60s and 70s ... Or later. Cringe worthy music has always been there and has always been succesful too.

    However the extreme thing about the current situation is that musical skills or having a good voice are no longer necessary at all to have a gazillion dollar career in music.

    DB

  4. #153
    Also the fact that most music is devoid of "Blues and Black Gospel " influence as well. No Ray Charles anywhere to be found in today's offerings

    That along with simple guitaristic triads has really dumned down any harmonic interest at least for me.

  5. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Also the fact that most music is devoid of "Blues and Black Gospel " influence as well. No Ray Charles anywhere to be found in today's offerings

    That along with simple guitaristic triads has really dumned down any harmonic interest at least for me.
    If you have a hip leader on even commercial gigs, you can add those elements to what would otherwise be square music.
    I'm lucky enough to be doing "Mama Mia" with an MD that encourages creativity on the gigs. We did four shows over the weekend, and the bass player made even ABBA's music funky and exciting, I was doing fills wherever I wanted, and the MD was playing Ray Charles licks all over the place, even hopping over to grand piano when he really wanted to get down. All the venues had a grand piano where we were playing. The people loved it.

    It's great to be working with young cats half my age, who can hear and play anything. We played my arr. of "Gaucho" by the Dan before the show started, and the bass player played it like Chuck Rainey, even though he never played it before! Then, after the show, the MD and the bass player were performing opera arias for the audience in the lounge area, where they got standing ovations. The bass player can sing both pop and opera, and can even play the piano on a professional level. We played some instrumental parts of West Side Story before some other shows, note perfect. Wild weekend!

  6. #155

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    Interesting that this idea so often about linear historical comparison which often ignores horizontal realtions between styles.

    Approximately from middle 20th century we live in multi-style cultural world where all the styles are presumably equal (or even equally vaulable - the othe side of democracy again).
    So some people can say: that was the music in old days speaking about pop of 70s or 0s and comparing it with modern pop?
    Whereas for some people (and I know them personally) there is not som much differentce in value between between pop-songs of 30s and modern ones...
    just becasue they belong to a different musical world and from that point of view all this is approximately the same...
    some would even go so far as to say that it is not even music))) just some relatively barble backgroud..

    I had a funny experience with a friend of mine - very profound classical musicians - very deeply living in that.
    He usually can appreciate and show respect to good jazz and pop like The Beatles but I always feel that this is still appreciation from outside, he can hear the originality and freshness and sympathize the personalities but overall he finds it too boring to really listen to it.
    So once his daughter sat and sang 'Hallelujah' by Cohen... and he said: what is this song? Sounds like 'Let It Be'.
    I laughed: come on! It is nothing like 'Let It Be'... maybe just general character, hymn-like style.. but the harmony and melody are very different...

    And then I realized that he does not hear this difference. For him it is just all approximately the same. And it does not matter if it is C -Am/C-Am.... or C-G/Am-F
    For his ear (yes extremly sensitive and culticated!) the musical result is approximately the same...

  7. #156
    While much of what I bemoan in today's music is lack of more sophisticated harmony, the real problem lies in the actual "Groove" of the performances
    When machines ( Pro Tools, Drum Machines, Sampling) are used in place of real musicians, as opposed to adding spice it feels stiff and lacks human feel.

    I'm not against any of these devices as seasonings for the music. But when they are the cheaper way out,and one or few people are involved. Chemistry as well as creativity are affected and not usually in a musical way.

    You used to have individual or musical identities associated with different parts of the USA . New Orleans with Alan Toussaint, Memphis with Isaac Hayes, Motown with the Funk Bros. Atlantic with Jerry Wexler and Tom Dowd, Los Angeles with The Wrecking Crew.
    Now everything is a younger producer with out any real musical training and samples trying to strictly go after sales. Without the musicians ,especially the ones with a deeper background it falls flat.

  8. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog View Post

    However the extreme thing about the current situation is that musical skills or having a good voice are no longer necessary at all

    Let me expand on that by highlighting the genre called "Ambient Music";

    Wikipedia:
    "Ambient music focuses on creating a mood or atmosphere through synthesizers and timbral qualities, often lacking the presence of any net composition, beat, or structured melody. It uses textural layers of sound without prevalent musical tropes, rewarding both passive and active listening. Nature soundscapes are usually included, and the sounds of acoustic instruments such as the piano, strings and flute, among others, may be emulated through a synthesizer. According to its pioneers, "Ambient music must be able to accommodate many levels of listening attention without enforcing one in particular; it must be as ignorable as it is interesting.

    ...it has attained a certain degree of acclaim throughout the years, especially in the Internet age. "

    Current situation: From a small niche, this stuff has gradually been eating into most pop genres of today. Skills required: DAW editing and mixing.

    We've reached a point where sound is confused with music.

  9. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat View Post
    We've reached a point where sound is confused with music.
    Music is organised sound.

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by docsteve View Post
    Music is organised sound.
    Oh yes, but the logic is not reversible; the statement "sound is music" is false.