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  1. #1

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    Two things that REALLY bug me, but it's likely only me...

    Hypocrisy, and liars... Do you see the hypocrisy in this pic I took at Wal-Mart?

    Hint, "Investing in American Jobs, right where they have a dozen self checkout stands. Nice guys! "The Average Walmart Cashier/Stocker hourly pay in the United States is approximately $10.56"

    So they buy a bunch of machines at some several thousand dollars each and fire cashiers. After all, no sick days, no pesky insurance payments to machines.


    Two things that bug me-wal-mart-hypocrisy-jpg
    Regards,

    Gary

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  3. #2

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    Third thread in a row someone complaining about something. C'mon guys!

    And no one is forcing you to shop there.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    Two things that REALLY bug me, but it's likely only me...

    Hypocrisy, and liars... Do you see the hypocrisy in this pic I took at Wal-Mart?

    Hint, "Investing in American Jobs, right where they have a dozen self checkout stands. Nice guys! "The Average Walmart Cashier/Stocker hourly pay in the United States is approximately $10.56"

    So they buy a bunch of machines at some several thousand dollars each and fire cashiers. After all, no sick days, no pesky insurance payments to machines.


    Two things that bug me-wal-mart-hypocrisy-jpg

    Yes my friend .... I agree about the irony , also generally

    DON'T FEED THE ROBOTS ....... they will take your job !!

  5. #4

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    They carefully manage the hours of the employees still in the stores, to insure they don't work enough hours to force giving them benefits as full-time employees. And it's not only the checkers. Try to find something in a WalMart that wasn't manufactured in China. They force companies to move manufacturing there by squeezing so hard on prices. Some American companies refuse to sell to WalMart because of that. It's not common, but there are a few. I gladly pay more money for merchandise at other stores.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    They force companies to move manufacturing there by squeezing so hard on prices.
    Companies like Walmart don't force production to be move abroad. They are all about making a profit. Mr. and Mrs. America are the ones forcing production abroad. If people where willing to pay more for American made stuff, then Walmart would sell American made stuff. As is, they are not.

    I mean ... Just look at how many my Mexican Fender is every bit as good as an US made Fender threads that are on the internet. No regard for the American workers in Coruna or their families

  7. #6

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    I don't ever go to Walmart but I do use the self-checkout stations in grocery stores or Home Depot etc., all the time. It's much faster if you only have a few items. Queue times are short because everyone is fast and like minded in those lanes.

    You simply pull the merchandise out of the bag, scan them, set them down, pay with credit card, pick 'em up and bag 'em, then GTFO.

    The alternative is to wait for a long queue, set the stuff on a conveyor belt, wait for the clerk to pick up each item and scan it, set them aside, try to upsell you on something, ask you to put your card in the reader - when they're ready - then bag them, ask you if you want a receipt, and hand your crap to you.

    A time and motion study might be interesting but I'm convinced that it's faster. And I don't have to talk to the clerk, which wastes even more time and is infuriating to any who might be in the line behind me.

    What can we say? We live in cities and have busy, harried lives.
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 06-09-2019 at 03:47 PM.

  8. #7

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    I LOVE self check out and use it every time I can. Most of the checkers (especially at Walmart) act bored, rude, and downright unfriendly. I don't go there often but when I do, I want in and out as quickly as humanly possible. Lowes and Home Depot are a little better - depends on what I'm buyng and the length of the lines on which I use.

    It sort of depends on which side of the coin you're on - labor or management. Labor wants as much as it can get for doing the least work and management is responsible to the shareholders for maximum return on investment. It's like the military where everyone is a cog in a machine and gets used for maximum efficiency (supposedly! I was an Iraqi linguist and ended up in Vietnam making maps, taking photos and some other stuff that I can't go into). I was on both sides (employee and employer) - not sure which was better.

    Anybody heard if Amazon is hurting Walmart? I see Amazon got approval to use delivery drones - I wonder who'll be next. What's to prevent some sharpshooter from popping those drones out of the sky and taking the stuff?

  9. #8

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    A few things prevent, or at least deter shooting down drones. Discharging firearms is illegal in many cities, but that probably won't be the big deterrent. It can get boring sitting outside with your trusty AR15 waiting for a drone to come by. It's not like they follow set schedules and routes. And by the time you do see one, the boredom and the beer you've consumed to combat that will make accurate fire difficult at best. I was once involved in a demonstration of the use of small arms for air defense while stationed in Korea with the Army. They used large (~3' wingspan) remote controlled model airplanes to simulate enemy aircraft, and had a battalion of US infantry and a battalion of ROK soldiers, in place on a beach, firing their weapons at the models, and they were mostly sober, and all trained infantrymen. In a week of practice and the actual demo, the models were struck by exactly one bullet, in a non-critical location. Tens of thousands of rounds went up, and at the end of the demo the model was intentionally flown into the water as if it had been shot down. It's not that easy to hit a small target flying through the air, and the average Joe wearing his MAGA hat ain't likely to hit one. In the meantime, I'm not holding my breath waiting on a drone to come to my door, because I don't shop at Amazon, either.

  10. #9

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    One needs to get a job in the automation area; i.e. gain the skills necessary to create machines that put others out of a job!

    That is what I have done as a software engineer.

    But since automation will automate the vast majority of work, capitalism as we know it today will need to end since free market policies and massive automation will not be able to create enough jobs (and massive wealth disparity causes revolutions). Read the book Player-Piano by Kurt Vonnegut. This visionary covered this topic well. (and notice the link back to music, ha ha).

    There is a happy ending if mankind is mature enough to make it happen: automation leads to an increased standard of living, and a lot more free time for staying healthy and being creative in the arts.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    One needs to get a job in the automation area; i.e. gain the skills necessary to create machines that put others out of a job!

    That is what I have done as a software engineer.

    But since automation will automate the vast majority of work, capitalism as we know it today will need to end since free market policies and massive automation will not be able to create enough jobs (and massive wealth disparity causes revolutions). Read the book Player-Piano by Kurt Vonnegut. This visionary covered this topic well. (and notice the link back to music, ha ha).

    There is a happy ending if mankind is mature enough to make it happen: automation leads to an increased standard of living, and a lot more free time for staying healthy and being creative in the arts.
    can't see it happening , who will pay you to do less / no work ?
    we need a complete rethink ....
    I'll read the Player-Piano , thanks

  12. #11

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    Maybe, or;

    Jobs need to evolve along with with automation.
    Education can help.
    Massive illegal immigration (i.e. millions) of poor, uneducated people from failing countries on the verge of economic implosion, will not.

  13. #12

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    Newsflash: Maybe Wal-Mart is not the best choice of employer for those looking to have a full time career?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    Newsflash: Maybe Wal-Mart is not the best choice of employer for those looking to have a full time career?
    Ah, typical pie in the sky bullshit.

    My wife started working for competitor Target at 16. She now runs one of the biggest stores in the company. You can still work hard and be good at what you do and move up in this world.

    It's a lousy place to build a career if you're a lazy piece of shit.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu View Post
    can't see it happening , who will pay you to do less / no work ?
    we need a complete rethink ....
    I'll read the Player-Piano , thanks
    There will be no concept of 'pay'. As for the limited amount of work that will still be required to be done by humans: how that limited work is divided up will be one of the major questions of such a socialist economic system.

    Anyhow, I just don't see the existing capitalist system creating enough jobs to keep unemployment below, 10% (or so), as well as retaining middle-class wages for a majority of folks. The current ideas of limiting automation (e.g. in Los Angeles county stores can't use automated check-out), are just lame temporary attempts to limit automation from talking jobs. Either these attempts to outlaw and \ or restrict automation will need to dramatically increase (e.g. a ban on using certain machines would create a lot of construction jobs) or a complete change to our economic system will need to occur.

    I just don't see enough jobs being created (as implied by Jazzstdnt), to keep up with the number of jobs automation will take away.

  16. #15

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    That is interesting James. I'm a software guy too.

    But - the computer was invented many decades ago. What you wrote above could have been written in 1959 but now it's 2019 of course.

    I had a Comp Sci. professor who said "I preach the positive side", when challenged with such doomsday scenarios. For the most part he was right, so far. :0

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by p1p View Post
    And no one is forcing you to shop there.
    The problem is, many people have no option. There was a number of stories a year or so ago about Walmart's in smaller towns closing, leaving those towns with no grocery stores. The reason for that? Walmart came in and forced all the grocery stores out. And then when the Walmart wasn't making enough profit, they closed up and left the town in a food desert.

    So, please understand in many instances, people are forced to shop there. And many of those people are Walmart employees who are forced to use food stamps to buy food from the very store they work for.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Ah, typical pie in the sky bullshit.

    My wife started working for competitor Target at 16. She now runs one of the biggest stores in the company. You can still work hard and be good at what you do and move up in this world.

    It's a lousy place to build a career if you're a lazy piece of shit.
    How is that relevent? is it the typical Wal-Mart experience?
    My post was in response to those who think $10+ per hour is too little to be a cashier, or teeter in the doorway doing nothing.

  19. #18

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    Try to live on $10/hour, for typically ~36 hours/week in the US. The cheapest place you can rent will cost almost that much, nevermind food, a phone (required so they can call you to tell you when to come to work, usually on an hour's notice), insurance, gas, a car (no public transport in many cities). At 40 hours/week, you become a full time employee, so you never get that many hours of work. It's not possible to fully support a family on $10/hour as a part-time worker, no matter how much you scrimp and save. If you have a child and have to pay for child care, it's out of the question. The child care will cost very nearly your entire salary, maybe more.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    Try to live on $10/hour, for typically ~36 hours/week in the US. The cheapest place you can rent will cost almost that much, nevermind food, a phone (required so they can call you to tell you when to come to work, usually on an hour's notice), insurance, gas, a car (no public transport in many cities). At 40 hours/week, you become a full time employee, so you never get that many hours of work. It's not possible to fully support a family on $10/hour as a part-time worker, no matter how much you scrimp and save. If you have a child and have to pay for child care, it's out of the question. The child care will cost very nearly your entire salary, maybe more.
    No, I will not try that. It would be rediculous to try that with a job that is appropriate for kids and seniors to make some supplemental income.
    That's my point.

  21. #20

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    Saying that all WalMart jobs are for seniors and kids is disingenuous. That's not who you see in those jobs, and in many small towns it's the biggest employer. They're even cutting out the greeters, and putting the old folks out of their retirement jobs. And it really irks me that people think that just because you're old you should be paid starvation wages. Old people deserve to make as much as anyone else for the same work. So do women. So do young people. A job should pay enough to live on, regardless of one's age, sex, or anything else.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    How is that relevent? is it the typical Wal-Mart experience?
    My post was in response to those who think $10+ per hour is too little to be a cashier, or teeter in the doorway doing nothing.
    Well, that's not what you said. You said "maybe Walmart isn't a good place to look for a full time career. "

    You can be upwardly mobile in a "big box" company. It can easily be a full time career. You have to work hard and be good at what you do, and certainly not everyone is going to run a whole store, but there's dozens of leadership positions in every Walmart/Target/Meijer/Home Depot etc. that pay very well. Certainly better than they pay a schoolteacher, like myself.

    You have to be business-minded to really move up far, but for those lower level management positions, there's little things like simply being reliable that will get you far fast, because, sadly, most people just aren't reliable.


    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Well, that's not what you said. You said "maybe Walmart isn't a good place to look for a full time career. "

    You can be upwardly mobile in a "big box" company. It can easily be a full time career. You have to work hard and be good at what you do, and certainly not everyone is going to run a whole store, but there's dozens of leadership positions in every Walmart/Target/Meijer/Home Depot etc. that pay very well. Certainly better than they pay a schoolteacher, like myself.

    You have to be business-minded to really move up far, but for those lower level management positions, there's little things like simply being reliable that will get you far fast, because, sadly, most people just aren't reliable.


    Actually it is what I said. Everyone knows these companies have a management structure in place.
    I was responding to the op which is about self checkout machines replacing cashiers.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    Saying that all WalMart jobs are for seniors and kids is disingenuous. That's not who you see in those jobs, and in many small towns it's the biggest employer. They're even cutting out the greeters, and putting the old folks out of their retirement jobs. And it really irks me that people think that just because you're old you should be paid starvation wages. Old people deserve to make as much as anyone else for the same work. So do women. So do young people. A job should pay enough to live on, regardless of one's age, sex, or anything else.
    If your plan is to just get any job, and then complain that it does not compensate you enough (even though you full well knew the rate), then I don't know what to tell you.
    Good luck with it, but it would not be my plan.

  25. #24

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    These tensions aren't new, from Pope Urban II banning the crossbow a thousand years ago, to the Luddites, to JM Keynes writing about the threat of 'Technological Unemployment' in the 1930's...

    The Judeo-Christian-Greek-Roman world view that work is a necessary evil survived in Europe for 100's of years until 'Work' became something that defined you. The issues arising from this continue to be fudged.

    This is an interesting take on some of them, (you can give 'em an email address & get one book free...)

    Bullshit Jobs | Book by David Graeber | Official Publisher Page | Simon & Schuster

    +1 for Kurt Vonnegut, read lots of his but not that one....