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Who are rage guitar players to listen. Badly lot of good jazz doesnt have guitar, just now been listening Coltrane (late Coltrane) and others, some jazz players are too melodic. Im still now just the surface layer of jazz, but i dont like much the way of jazz players i listen.
I think this is not new, but I think guitar was too much relegated in jazz, as i said sometimes i listen great saxophone jazz, trumpet, etc, albums, lot of brass, but no guitar.
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12-28-2018 08:49 PM
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Sonny Sharrock
Sonny Greenwich
... Sonny Bono? :)
James Blood Ulmer
Pat Metheny with Ornette on Song X
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Sonny Sharrock with Pharaoh Sanders, Charnett Moffett and Elvin Jones. One of my all-time favourite albums.
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70''s Sonny Greenwich and Tisziji Munoz.
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Hi, thanks, Sonny Bono seems bad ass, gonna check it.
Thanks to both.
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I saw Greenwich in Toronto at Meyer's Deli using the same first crappy amp I bought. He sounded great I was awful. Stag? I can't be sure.
Sonny seemed to be so line determined. He is amazing.
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I think as close as any guitar player ever got to Trane's concept.
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Linc Chamberland.
Here he is with Dave Liebman.
The man could play the guitar.
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Thanks for posting this - I'd forgetten about Linc and this recording.
Originally Posted by arielcee
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Nice. Where does one get his music other than on LP, or can we? Originally Posted by arielcee
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Good question. I dont think there are any CD copies thst I'm aware of. In all honesty youtube is probably best bet. To my knowledge he only did one other record (a trio w/ Dave Friesen and Gary Hobbs of portland OR). I've seen lps on ebay once in a blue moon though. Sad since he was such an incredible player. I read he mostly liked to teach and go fishing amap. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Wasn't KB the only guitarist JC ever recorded with ? I remember having this discussion back in the day, and I'm guessing this is the album, but I don't recognize the cover art.
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Yeah jazz is always an also ran in jazz.... Originally Posted by man-argentina
Except Charlie Christian.
Then rock music came along and people tried to cash in. I kind of agree with you in the sense that I never really listened to guitar players that much when getting into the music.
Now I really like jazz guitar, but it’s its own thing. More like alto sax than tenor. More linear, gentle.
Who gets closest to Coltrane of the guitarists? Well no one on any instrument channels him imo, they just get the notes.
But probably I’d say more rock players, of the guys mentioned above, I agree. I’ve been revisiting early 70s McLaughlin. Man, he had a vibe. Just machine gunning that Plexi.
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"jazz guitar, (...) it’s its own thing", totally agree. Originally Posted by christianm77
I find jazz guitarists too... cant find the words, but i feel they dont explore all the possibilities of the instrument. I started really like the swing 30s style, but now i pass. Really hate when the guitar just make solos, and when a song doesnt have a development and its just solos, its a shame dont find much guitar in Charles Mingus songs.
Dont like much distortion. And its really hard to find good quality clean guitar. Dont know, i just think i need to listen something and cant find it, and yes, of course i play it.
McLaughlin I listened some of him just the other days, cause i came across a live performance of DiMeola (Guitartown Copper Mountain, was good), but dont know, its not really my thing.
Sometimes jazz (the music ive heard) can be a bit simple about composition i think, not much productin, wich is maybe the spirit of jazz, just the players playing like on a live set, but sometimes i find it too linear.
About Burrell, dont know, of course he is good, but its not my kind of player.
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Burrell and Coltrane both played with exquisite tone on this cut. For me, beyond Coltrane's sheets of sound and Burrell's blues, this recording is one of the most moving pieces ever!
Albert
Originally Posted by Dennis D
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Thinking early McLaughlin. Mahavushnu, Miles etc - more raw Originally Posted by man-argentina
It’s possible you just don’t like jazz guitar, but give Grant Green with Sonny Clark some play.
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Yesterday was listening Grant Green, not my kind, great play, but not what im looking for, im looking for something much more violent ? I listened Om of Coltrane, a clean guitar doing killing licks would be sound nice there. About grant green, for example Idle moments, i dont like because the guitar is just soloing over the song. Sometimes i listen jazz guitar and its just soloing, i come from a style to use much more chords, sometimes the only time when jazz guitar players use chords is rything, can understand it. Its not my thing. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There is at least one Tisziji piece that takes me to the Coltrane stratosphere. I can't remember the title but I believe it was the 3rd cut on the "Visiting this Planet" CD. Now I'll have to find the cd! (This will drive me crazy!)
AKA
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Yeah basically you are beyond help ;-) Originally Posted by man-argentina
Maybe you need to work out how play this thing that you can hear, but can’t seem to find in other players? If you can *hear* it that’s the main thing.
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Rodney Jones plays a lot of Trane stuff on his jazz cds
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Yeah, i know, ha. Been trying to be more open lately, and enjoy everyones play, at least. Originally Posted by christianm77
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In agreement to sentiments being expressed here. In the dynamic spectrum of guitar in jazz it seems a lot of it that's technically and harmonically more adventurous is usually fairly mellow/passive and anything with more grit ends up usually being distorted and more rock influenced.
I've heard rumors that recordings of Trane and Wes (they toured for a week or two i rhink in '61 or'62) might exist. Not sure if they were personally made or audience, but hopefully (if they do indeed exist) someone will recognize their significance ("capital", cough cough...) and release them.
John McLaughlin "Extrapolation" is great if you've not already heard it. Debut record made around a period, he described, he was really getting into A Love Supreme. Pre Mahavishnu though (as far as i know).
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I think the best Trane-ish work from JM was his album dedicated to him, "After The Rain", with former Coltrane quartet member Elvin Jones on drums and Joey D on Hammond B-3, a "power trio" nonpareil. (replacing Jones with Dennis Chambers slightly later was no slouch move either).
The 1990s, JM's "post-bop period"? Maybe. Regardless it was a great album. Mind blowing guitar and improv work for someone playing a Johnny Smith archtop guitar. We already knew he could burn up on an ES-345 or Les Paul.
After this CD and related touring he became a top annual guitar favorite in Downbeat for several years.
After the Rain (John McLaughlin album) - Wikipedia
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I'll say it again: if you want a guitar player that hangs in the late Coltrane sphere, in my book it's Sonny Sharrock or Sonny Greenwich. Sharrock has the 'violence'. Greenwich has the focus. They both play with such authority.
These were just about the only guitarists I could find when I was trying to figure out how to Trane with guitar. Before the high gain sounds of Johnny Mac came along at least. I still give it to these guys as 'being there'. I can't quite imagine John actually sitting in and being able to hang with Coltrane in the later years. The Sonnys I can easily. (let's not forget that Sharrock recorded with Pharaoh)
A little earlier Coltrane is a different thing though. Kenny and Johnny Mac got that. I take the OP to be talking about the inter-galactic Trane.
Johnny Mac was a big thing for me in the early 70's. But he's so...refined. (i still don't get his fascination with detuning...) The Sonnys have a raw edge. JM is almost... dare I say it...tame and predictable by comparison.
And Greenwich is Canadian!! That was a big deal to me in 1970 in Vancouver. Too bad I wasn't living in Toronto. I envy you Mr Kingston!
Many thanks to Ariel for the Linc C link. I somehow missed this guy. Just goes to show how much talent there is out there.
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George Garzone studied Trane extensively (among others), and (guitarist) Chris Crocco studied Garzone (among others):
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mclaughlin sound here
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