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Interesting discussion by my favorite internet music teacher (check his credentials if you don't know who he is). The title is a little deceptive but hear him out through the whole video and see what you think.
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08-30-2018 06:44 PM
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Yes - I'd already watched this and thought it was one of his better rants !
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a few sparks of interest .. I have watched his vids and for whatever reasons I do not connect with his teaching style..or his playing..but that aside...
His reference to Steely Dan and the prog rock group Yes..seem to be an indication of jazz seeping into rock...considering the musicians in SD were mostly studio jazz players could be the reason...along with the unique song structures of Fagen and Becker..Yes was mostly bent on the classical side..but groups in the mid/late 60s were using jazz flavors and in some cases straight ahead jazz .. Zappa..Robert Fripp-King Crimson..the horn bands-Chicago..Blood Sweat & Tears/Al Kooper .. and many of todays players using jazz lines in their solos and have studied many styles of music and can play standards as well as classic rock solos..and some more advanced players like Govan and Tom Quail explore the outer limits of "fusion" and are touching on something yet defined
and new players are starting where these guys leave off..the terms rock..jazz..fusion may morph into ???
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Extremely annoying character. I can not believe are watching these in numbers.
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Well, yea, he likes to talk.. a lot! It can get a little annoying sometimes.
Steely Dan or Yes were not a good example IMO, both super nerdy bands, not really popular even during their best years. At least not the first come to mind when you think rock music.
Otherwise, I think they had Rock History course in Berklee already in the 90's...
I liked better his other video, Is Rock Dead? I think it's called. Some bands are doing ok, but there are no movements was the main point. Hip hop and EDM is what most youth are into. Boring shit.
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Aja, 1977, their 6th album, reached number 3 in the US and number 5 in the UK. 3 hit singles. Eventually sold 5 million. They'd charted three singles before that, and, as I recall it, most people could sing along with Do It Again, Reelin' In the Years etc.
Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Not the Beatles, but pretty popular IMO.
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Beat me to it. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
They were big, with plenty of hit songs starting with Do It Again. Their songs were on the FM radio constantly. They were big stuff already and then Aja blew it out of the water. Peg, Josie, Deacon Blues. And then FM (soundtrack to a movie), Hey Nineteen. Yep, lots of radio play.
Of course they didn't like to perform live (like the Beatles) because they weren't happy with their live sound vs. studio. Perfectionists, and of course Fagen doesn't have a very good singing voice but got it right with all the extra takes etc. that come with studio recording.
This century, they got over playing live of course, and people went to see them.
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Well, ok, I stand corrected then. I guess my bias got in the way- never liked Steely Dan, certainly not something I call Rock music.
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Can anybody cliff notes this for me, I can't listen to Beatoff for more than a minute without grinding my teeth.
Oh, Steely Dan rules.
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I watched it about a week ago. The bit I'm remembering has to do with the demographics of who is listening to rock, largely 50+ age group. He was looking at analytics on youtube and spotify. Since many of the old time rock bands block the youtube and spotify streaming, young people aren't listening and just don't know about them. As the old are already dying off so is the popularity of rock. In the future rock will lose it's popularithy and will become academically studied in college, like jazz. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Yes, Steely Dan rules.
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best thing i learned out of all of this is that other people can't stand that guy haha!
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fep gave a pretty accurate summary - so you can save yourself time and not watch the video. Rock is the new jazz in that it will become a minority genre. Beato blames the rock musicians themselves (or their management) for not embracing the new media channels and switching on youngsters.
Nevertheless, you can find some great covers on YT by guys who weren't even born when the originals were recorded. Using Beato's example of Yes......
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EDM success (thats not a genre) made all those youtube channels use some stupid electronic jingle.. this will not last - what would be the next (every god damn) big thing?
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They were both very popular here in the US in the 70s and 80s. Not superstar popular like the Beatles, the Stones, Beyonce, Prince, etc., but in the top 40 on radio and selling millions of albums. And in the case of Yes doing many tours that sold well. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
EDIT: should have read further down the thread before responding. This was covered already. Sorry for the repeat!
To make a furthur point, if you're going to talk about jazz in rock then you need to talk about the Grateful Dead- the rock improvisational band par excellence (or, depending on the night, par execrable). And maybe about Phish, too, and some of the other jam bands. And Allan Holdsworth, who was too rock for jazz and too jazz for rock.
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rock is not jazz.
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The place is really jumping to the Hiwatt amps
'Til a 20-inch cymbal fell and cut the lamps
In the blackout they dance right into the aisle
And as the doors fly open even the promoter smiles
Someone takes his pants off and the rafters knock
Rock is dead, they say...
Long live rock, I need it every night
Long live rock, come on and join the line
Long live rock, be it dead or alive
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Thinking about events of the past week, the girl in "Hey Nineteen" ("she don't remember Queen of Soul") would be around 57 years old now. Maybe time for an update? "Hey nineteen, that's Donald Fagen..."
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Is Meatloaf becoming the new Chet Baker? Stay tuned to Rick Beato's youtube channel...
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R&B, Rock ,Reggaeton, and all the new Rhythmic
Pop, Legato , Americana ,and Worldbeat and all the Modern Classical , etc etc etc is the 'New Jazz' - if you have 'Jazz Skills '[ whatever that means ] you can use them but a lot of new music has much more pronounced
Rhythms ..so you may need to adjust.
Or you can pick a Style or Era and decide whether you want to copy or innovate or both.
Retro Styles tend to not be as much appreciated by younger audiences who missed the 'first time around ' for an Original Artist/Image/Archetype.
Blues,Country, Jazz tend to be more 'Retro'
as does 50's Rock, 70's Disco , Bebop, Classic Rock ,
There is no secret to it and there is no secret knowledge in this Post.Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-03-2018 at 09:33 PM.
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Legato? My piano teacher used to yell at me ''legato, legato!!", she was apparently a big fan of Legato, and I was just trying to play Classical. Can you dance to Legato? Originally Posted by Robertkoa
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Ha ..Hammers hitting the strings ...must be difficult to play legato on a percussive instrument like Piano. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I learned to program professional Midi Rhythm tracks a while back using a Workstation Keyboard Rig and decided" I am NOT going to practice ANY kind of piano technique...lol .".I have to get another Workstation soon to program my own tracks and I will be a very bad piano player again ...it takes me one or two minutes just to find/ build an Emin 11 chord ! Much of the timing carries over for realtime drum parts
but I play keys like a DJ ......I do not have the patience to learn another instrument ..
I will have 'real ' Keyboards in after the tracks are done..Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-03-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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It's not that difficult, I mean staccato is easier of course, but you get used to it... you can always cheat and use the pedal too hehe. Originally Posted by Robertkoa
But I still wanna know what is Legato as the genre, is it similar to Reggaeton, R&B, or Pop?
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One thing about Guitar Terminology is although 'legato' is primarily associated with Fusion most Players do not have a specific genre ...
Holdsworth was one of the Pioneers but I don't think he came up with that name for it .
I think the legato Players stick pretty closely to your Piano Teacher's definition.
But David Gilmour (brilliant Player at what he does taking a little chops a very very long ,expressive way ),Eric Johnson , Van Halen , *Kriesberg use it though less strict..in the best sense re: Kriesberg.
I can tell from playing unplugged to film scores on TV that it will sound great on orchestrated tracks..
Anyway I don't think there is a Genre associated totally with Guitar Legato...long smooth notes like Alto Sax or Violin on Guitar...
A nice relief from aggressive playing...
Even the slight aggression needed to pop notes in swing-legato is relief smoooooth.
A lot of people do it just by picking very softly with delay and reverb ..
That's how I do it ...you can't tell I am alternating it can be nearly legato all the way to the Fusion guys of the 70s..
Notice his Tone resembles some of Eric Johnson or Holdsworth from decades ago
but he does say you don't need to hammer and pull off ( just like I don't say you NEED to alt pick )and some of his Playing is really cool..Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-04-2018 at 09:04 PM.
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Old news from 1975 - "The Death Of Rock and Roll"
Just the other day I got a call from a friend
"I heard what you been playin' and I think it's a sin
Why can't you make a living like the rest of the boys
Instead of fillin' your head with all that synthesized noise?"
Jackals wait nearby, watching rock and roll die
And no one dared to help it
Vultures fill the sky
I thought we was supposed ta, supposed ta be free...
But we all got sold
It must be the death of rock and roll
The critics got together and they started a game
You get your records for nothing
And you call each other names
Things got out of hand and somebody got sore
Now we're all tuning up for the rock and roll war
Time to take up sides, helping rock and roll die
Pick up your check at the window
No one left to cry
I thought we was supposed ta, supposed ta be free...
But we all got sold
It must be the death of rock and roll
Nobody paid, nobody played, nobody stayed
Just my lonely guitar
Nobody paid, nobody stayed, nobody played
Just my lonely guitar
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