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Digital sales for jazz drop every year now. NOone is listening. Jazz hasn't evolved at all since the atonal solo overtook the swing of jazz. Which sadly knocked jazz music right out of the dance hall and it's been downhill ever since. Jazz singers number in the low hundreds I'd imagine... nationwide. No one knows who Pat Methany is in Kansas City anymore. In the meantime Jazz musicians seem to do nothing but make sport of the common man to prop up the snobbishness of listening to the unlistenable 15 minute musical rantings of all notes you can play outside with. Lyrics ....out the window. And it's been that way for 25 years.
I drove down to 18th and Vine over the weekend after taking my family for some BBQ. KC has pumped money into the area forever now. Yet, it will never hop like it did. The little building that opens at 2am is still kicking though. I'll be down to listen because it may be the last place real jazz is played anymore within 700 miles of my house.
The reason for my post is simple...Jazz was great once. It's been dead and stinking for a long time. No innovation, no swing, no nothing going on. When will the jazz that you can dance to, hum to, feel happy when you hear it ....sing the words...when will that become the priority. Seems like the priority is to play the unplayable, the unlistenable, unsoundtrackable, unusable. to be able to wow a jazz fellow and then bitch because the regular folks just don't get it....won't support music that is unusable to them..and then are smyted by a jazzy snob in a beret for an untrained palette.
what a joke. fix it. or the American treasure will be gone and you all will be playing to no one...oh wait.
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06-15-2018 02:05 PM
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An astute observation that is unfortunately true.
Think about the post-swing bebop era, so mid-1940s until the very early 1960s: During that time jazz clubs were numerous and packed with people who went to listen to the music, unlike the swing era when they went to dance. They went to hear the virtuosity of the jazz greats we all know, and because the groups were smaller and the venues were smaller, you were closer to the bandstand so there was an intimacy between the musicians and gussied-up patrons, combined with the romance of a mid-1950s smoke-filled jazz club with the sound of clinking glasses: That's my favorite era of jazz, when my heroes were in their prime.
The ensuing years brought the onslaught of Rock & Roll, especially the British Invasion, which took a lot of steam out of the jazz scene. Hell, even some of our guitar heroes became pop music studio musicians and part of the Wrecking Crew (Tommy Tedesco, Barney Kessel, Howard Roberts, Dennis Budimir), combined with the fact that the bebop fans from the mid-40s through early 60s were now older, married, cultivating careers, raising families, moving on from the days of having the time and money to frequent the clubs.
Then came fusion, the ruin of straight-ahead jazz.
Then the old jazz greats began to pass on either because of age or succumbing to the ravaging effects of lives spent abusing booze and drugs. Additionally, the old TV variety shows of the 1950s and 1960s like Ed Sullivan, Hollywood Palace, et al, which were national showcases for jazz musicians, were now old hat and cancelled by the networks, so that venue for exposure was lost. By that time, and for those reasons, among others, the popularity of jazz declined to the point there was not fertile field for enough musicians to become nationally known to replace the old guard: From then onward to nowadays, with rare exception, the best they could hope for was regional recognition.
Another important aspect is that jazz is a very intellectual form of music that takes a certain level of intelligence to understand and appreciate, and though I hate to point out the obvious, the intellectual level of this country isn't what it was in 1955: As a result, most people (non-musicians) don't like jazz because they're too lazy in their minds to figure it out: They just want the beat and thrum that you hear when you walk into your average modern teen club "Don't make me think, just numb my mind with sound".
There will always be fans of jazz; however, unfortunately, the number of them will diminish from one generation to the next.
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^^^^
LOL!
Am I too long-winded?
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the question is when do today's leaders in jazz bring back the basics that have been missing....like lyrics, melody, and the elements that have been forsaken for 25 years? When is the next step going to be taken? and what does that look like? What changes will be made? By who? etc etc etc
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Rock and R&B killed club culture.
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Anthony Bourdain is dead, too. Doesn't mean that people don't still like to travel, eat and interact with others. In all honesty I am a little tired about hearing how jazz died, or is dying. Sorry for the rant if but brief.
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sorry, but that’s in poor taste imo
Originally Posted by lammie200
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That's a terrible thing you just did. Originally Posted by lammie200
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anyway, ideas on what direction jazz could go? I'd really love to see a gob of new music featuring female vocalists.
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OK, forget I wrote it. Just pissed today for some reason.
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Not sure about the OP's first post. Dance halls don't exist any more, times have moved on. Jazz is sophisticated music and there is certainly a lot of it about. The vast mass of people are into their pop music, metal, indie groups, and all that. And there's the classical group, the niche groups for blues, folk, country, and so on.
Jazz, especially and including modern jazz, is an acquired taste, not for everyone. I don't think it's snobbish to say it requires a relatively sophisticated ear to hear and understand it. However it is there for those who care about it. The statement that jazz is 'dead and stinking for a long time. No innovation, no swing, no nothing going on' simply isn't true. There have been active and popular jazz clubs in every place I've ever lived in, also pub music and shows in public venues. Jazz is catered for, no question.
I don't know how old the OP is but it seems to me he's bemoaning the passing of a bygone era, like missing steam trains and old cars. But the fact is times change, and there's not a lot we can do about that.
Hope he doesn't tell me he's only 40 :-)
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cool no worries. sorry you are having a rough day.
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id say the amount of clubs is irrelevant. music is everywhere. I'm 50 btw.
I'd like to see jazz become relevant and turn into something big...something that grows in popularity. does jazz really have to be a narrow niche forever?
maybe.
I believe it's time for jazz musicians to put the emphasis on something for the masses, with the niche of playing outside and dissonance a part of the whole. not the whole ...
as an example, songs that would get radio play...or would be covered in ANY bar by a variety band.
every new jazz record doesn't have to be so non radio friendly, does it? the only jazz I get to hear on the radio is government funded.
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In the UK we have Jazz FM
Jazz FM
and jazz specific programmes on the BBC and other channels.
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Well, to solve this little problem, why don't we all take a stab at composing what will be the next jazz standard, incorporate manleyman's suggestion and write lyrics for a female vocalist, then take the best ideas from the lot and come up with a song to present to someone like Diana Krall or Diane Schuur?
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How do you really feel? Originally Posted by manleyman123
Just kidding. I love hearing unadulterated opinions given here on this forum - whether I agree or disagree. Express yourself freely, Amigo. I will be reading every post to hear the latest sentiment on this topic. I think I have an idea where most of the "familiar suspects" on this forum stand, but its still interesting to read.
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"Jazz is dead" might depend on what sub-genre of jazz you like. I love Trad, Swing and Jump so IMHO, jazz lost the crowds when they left the dancers behind, but that's just me and I doubt jazz is going away. If jazz is about improvisation/real-time composition, I think humans will find ways to do that and push musical boundaries as long as there are instruments to do it on.
On another track, some younger folks are also finding the roots and giving them new life... check out
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I suffer from severe superannuation and so live in a world of memory.
In my youth the giants of Jazz still performed and i was callow enough to take them for granted.
I wish there were great new swinging' tunes but alas, I can not write them; if only!
I am grateful for what I've had and for what is left. I can't save those following me,
but I contribute where I can.
Today there are more 'displaced people' (that means refugees in real-speak) in the world than ever.
Antarctic ice seems to be melting three times faster than just a decade ago.
In America people with Police Authority are taking nursing babies from the breasts of refugee mothers.
There's a little Scotch left.
In light of all of this, I'm content with the Jazz I have and don't care if it smells funny.
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All languages evolve. Music is no different. We may or may not like the direction it's moving in, but who here could read Chaucer in the original and get all of it? We seem comfortable with our own evolution of English.
Music is no different. It evolves in response to popular pressure, technological innovation, business demands. Jazz is not the only music left by the wayside in this evolution; it's only one of the later examples.
That doesn't mean it's dead. It just means that it's not the current favorite. When I make my own feeble attempts at it, I do so in my living room, and I have fun.
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I've been writing songs for a very long time. A few have been recorded by others (nobody famous). I only say that because in my opinion (whatever it's worth), you can write! You have a cool way with words and you have your own unique angle of view. You have the seeds of several song right in your post! Originally Posted by rabbit
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If Jazz makes up a little less than 1% of the numbers, I'm actually surprised that it's as large as that! Still, there seems a lot of it around to me, pretty much world wide too. Mind you, it only takes a new champion to come along, hopefully black, and with the swagger of Miles, Hendrix, Ali, etc to draw attention to how cool the music can be. But people need to tire of Hiphop first...
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Some good points but a few misses too. Originally Posted by manleyman123
1. It was Bebop that killed swing and dance halls. But bebop was/is not atonal.
2. Who says hard bop, post bop, fusion, today's "modern" are not post bebop "evolutions"?
3. "Make sport of the common man". I don't follow you there. Do you mean they play less accessible, and more arcane and esoteric music? If so, you are correct.
4. Thank God for the lack of lyrics and singers in jazz. That's right, thank God because almost all of them really suck. (At least the "evolved" ones suck). The classics were/are great. But then they had good songs and catchy lyrics. Have you heard the stupid ass lyrics blabbed out by contemporary jazz singers? Dear God. Such mundane, self-absorbed, neurotic BS. Thank God for instrumental music.
5. "No innovation, no swing". Well, which do you want? If we're going to innovate we're not going to keep playing 1930s music. Sounds like you're pining for some classic, old-fashioned swing more than innovations/evolutions.
6. "When will the jazz that you can dance to, hum to, feel happy when you hear it ....sing the words...when will that become the priority?" When people get tired of the innovations and evolutions and decide that the classics are what they really want. Until then it won't be a priority.
Jazz certainly became less accessible with bop, but it hasn't died. That was almost 80 years ago! Have you tried going to see a local symphony's pops/jazz programs? Depending on what city you live in you may prefer that because people like Wynton and Wycliff Gordon do those gigs. They play a lot of classics and still swing. The hip clubs? They've been about something else since the bop days, as you correctly implied.
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What a great manifesto! I have an idea - let's start a record company and call it CTI. Let's get the best players around and play accessible jazz but with a bit of a current appeal, you know, add in a little pop, rock, funk, etc. And just to give it a little edginess and kick, just a smidge of outside playing. Maybe we can recruit George Benson and Herbie Hancock or somethin'. Originally Posted by manleyman123
We'll create a whole new style. We'll call it....... "The 70s"
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AlohaJoe,
Thank you very much. Your remarks really lifted my funk.
I noticed a while back that you know many things, so I value your compliment.
Let me take this opportunity to state that your tagline:
...."Some days its not even worth chewing through the restraints..."
rhymes perfectly with my outlook.
Peace
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