The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I would be interested in chatting with, either on the forum or privately, or perhaps even getting a nice discussion going, with others who are playing/learning jazz on an acoustic nylon string crossover (or classical) guitar. I don't have any particular questions at the moment, but would just like to talk about experiences, techniques, challenges, ideas, whatever.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    The 2 best I know at this are Gene Bertoncini and Paul Meyers. (Of course, Earl Klugh has been around for a long time). I also adore all the Brasilians using it so beautifully, especially the great Toninho Horta.

    Gene sounded so good that over 20 years ago I bought an electro-acoustic nylon-strung guitar. I even used it on a radio show. Alas, it just didn't work out for me (hands too small for the neck, and I got a plinky sound w/the pick).

    So back to steel, and happy ever since...

  4. #3

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    I love the instrument but it's not for me either unfortunately. I lost the tip of my pinky about 45 yrs ago and it's no big deal on the steel string but is too limiting on the wider classical neck. There have been discussions bordering on arguments previously on this forum on the need or at least advantage of using the pinky for soioing. But for the classical gtr ..................

    I don't know why the word eel got put on top here. I guess that's just the way it goes.
    Last edited by mrcee; 04-01-2017 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee
    I don't know why the word eel got put on top here. I guess that's just the way it goes.
    Dinner on your mind? (;

  6. #5

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    I've eaten eel a few times and it's ok but not for me at this juncture.

  7. #6

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    I believe Peter Sprague plays a lot on a nylon stringed instrument.

    I have only built a few of my carbon fiber topped archtops, but I string them with both nylon and steel. These are "crossovers" only in that they can be strung with nylon strings. They are NOT classical guitars. They feature a 1-3/4" nut, compound 10-16" radius fingerboard, 25" scale length.

    I am just a weekender, and these are recordings with a cheap web cam. But you can hear the same guitar with steel and nylon strings here:





    I like the sound of the nylon strings better, but it isn't as loud (which you can't tell from the recording).

  8. #7

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    I'm all about nylon. I play it every chance I can.

  9. #8

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    Jazz on nylon string crossover-002c6e67-jpeg

    Hard to not like playing a nylon for me , or any type of guitar , Charlie Bird is but one of my many guitar inspirations as is Tal Farlow there sitting and going for it next to Charlie with his steel six string electric jazz guitar .

    I just ( 6 months ago ) bought a no name single cut-a-way acoustic electric nylon , with a 000 type body . Rings like a rosewood cause it's one piece body and sides are cocobolo , a sub species of rosewood . It's got a one piece spruce top .

    It will keep me satisfied till I can get a single cut-a-way Godin thinline nylon with synth access just like my Godin LGXSA electric - acoustic electric - midi .

    My take is if you like guitars it matters little what kind it is so long as it is well built , plays well and sounds great .

    EZ :

    HR


  10. #9

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    Hello , I am really interested in a custom made double neck .

    One a nylon and the other steel , both with midi access like this
    video of Peter Sprague's custom made double .

    I emailed the person/luthier who made it , he now is a full time luthier
    @ Taylor guitar and takes on no more commissioned guitar builds - bummer -

    @ 3:47 you will see what I want in a double neck .



    How did you learn how to make CF guitars ?

    Thanks for those videos too .

    EZ :

    HR


  11. #10

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    Especially important to get amplification right on nylon.

  12. #11

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    I have been quite happy with the MK Rick Turner N6 (semi-hollow) nylon guitar I purchased in the spring. Neck width is comfortable and I have easy access to upper frets. I bought that guitar after deciding to sell a traditional classical guitar I had not used for many years.

    We introduced a few Bossa Nova tunes to the repertoire last year and that's what I primarily use if for.

    It took me about 5 to 6 weeks of daily practice for that Bossa Nova rhythm pattern to become comfortable. I used the Fareed Haque Truefire Bossa Nova video quite a bit to develop that.

  13. #12

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    Hello :

    What do you pump that bad boy through ?

    Thanks


    EZ :

    HR


  14. #13

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    I play jazz gigs on a nylon crossover quite often. The guitar is a guild custom shop model called Paloma, that i had commissioned a few years back. Basic reason that i got it though was being left handed, as there weren't left handed godin models available at the time. It does sound spectacular, but it lacks the response of a real classical with a hollow body. No feedback ever though. The best amp i 've found for it is the AER compact 60, and i 've been through most of them.

    The best guitar for jazz live applications i 've played was a guitar a friend had for a while, a Buscarino thinline nylon, the Starlight. Very thin body, no feedback also, but stellar response and tone. I have classical friends with Kohno, Conde, Ramirez guitars etc, so i have a solid perspective on great instruments, and that one had knock, sound, evenness, fantastic guitar..

    I 've always liked the nylon sound, but every time i tried to pick it up i would get discouraged with how bad i sounded on it. After a few years i realized that having worked on steel string sound for like 20 years and expecting to sound decent on nylon after 2 or 3 was not realistic, so i ended up getting a classical guitar degree, which got me to the point of at least enjoying the sound i can get out of the nylon strings. But i think they just are more difficult than the steel ones, more color to control.
    One problem i have with playing the nylon is that i don't like the sound and feel of a pick on nylon strings, and it's a huge commitment to develop single line speed with fingers. Having fun trying though...

    And i do think that for jazz, its very much worth it to pick up a hybrid guitar with a truss rod. Jazz requires different fingerings, hand position and action than Bach does. But it's just difficult to build and control technique on an instrument like the godins, so maybe the compromise of getting a guitar with a very small hollow body is better.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    ...so i ended up getting a classical guitar degree...

    What is that? You mean from a school? What kind of school? I am assuming you don't mean that after 25 years of playing guitar you went back for a 4 year undergraduate program majoring in music performance just to get better at playing nylon strings. So what kind of program did you do?

  16. #15

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    @hurricane

    I "learned" to make a CF guitar by reading articles about CF and composite construction, reading about Cello and Violin CF construction, and doing a lot of my own experiments. I also applied 10 years of building experience to what I had read and the results of the experiments. There is no how-to book out there on CF instruments, and most builders are quite secretive about how they make their instruments.

  17. #16

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    A memorable experience I had was playing a nylon string classical that had the nylon G B E strings replaced with some very light steel strings, so to not put too much stress on the bridge.

    It had the sweetest, most delicate steel sound, but was so well balanced in volume, tone, and tension with the wound classical strings. Sounded so good with a pick.

    What makes this a good story is that the guitar was a luthier's design prototype built for Andres Segovia to try before a build for him. I was teen buddies with the luthier's son and he was later given the guitar and he put the steel strings on it. Serendipity.

  18. #17

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    I bought an old Yamaha classical to practice on without having to bother with an amp and was in love with the tone with some nicer strings, so warm and mellow. I just recently bought some new La Bella strings for it and I hate it....ugh, so bummed, that sweet warm mellow tone is gone and it just sounds meh...[update, just looked up the old string wrappers I luckily kept and the two previous sets are medium/high tension versus light/medium of this one, I bet that's the difference]

    Regardless, I do like playing it and am considering dumping the La Bellas for whatever I had before, either Savaraz or Augustine...can't remember which, but I think they were both solid. Only problem with the setup is I wish it had a cutaway, then it would be perfect...

    I think I'm done collecting guitars, with a Tele and Epi-175 rounding out the stable, but somewhere down the road, a cutaway classical might be in the mix.

  19. #18

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    I love nylon - my first guitar, I like it as a solo instrument played with pick:


    because of this concert I bought myself Gibson Chet Atkins Nylon although I have problems playing it louder with acoustic amp - the guitar seems to have too much "gain" and not enough "headroom" and is loosing its nylon characteristics and articulation nuances. I have to explore the subject of amplyfying it more.


    The best use of nylon in jazz for my taste makes Pat Metheny, Earl Klugh and Rit

  20. #19
    Besides the inherent beauties and differences in tone quality between different types of instruments, I find that they all have lessons to teach on how to approach playing. Nylon strings aren't as tolerant of dense chords and dissonances to my ear. They also have their own special kind of sustain qualities.

    Played a lot of nylon for a while. Really teaches you to break things up rhythmically....the value of playing two successive smaller voicings instead of one large sustained voicing. Learn to appreciate more voicings with simple voice movements and how to really fill in gaps between things.

    I always hear people talk about picking up a certain kind of instrument and not liking it, but when you listen closer, what they're actually describing is basically picking up a different instrument and trying to play in a way which sounds good on completely DIFFERENT instrument, like a flatpicker who picks up and archtop and says it sounds like crap. Well, they basically DO.... IF you play them like a dreadnought. Nylon is the same thing . It may take some time to find your voice on it, but it's well worth it. It evokes its own unique expressive qualities.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 04-03-2017 at 09:50 AM.

  21. #20

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    Funny how the most important things you like , want , achieve finding , accomplishing , you do regardless of the lack of info and support from others .

    Thanks I emailed your website about a guitar .

    EZ :

    HR


  22. #21

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    I love the tonal colors of the nylon string. And all of that bossa nova stuff. I have a lower-end Kenny Hill crossover made in Mexico. Cutaway. Faster neck than a real classical. I sometimes I wonder why I need anything else.

    I've been listening to Romero Lubambo lately.

    But when it comes to eel, I never thought I'd like it, but some good stuff comes from Hamana Lake near Hamamatsu in Japan. My brother-in-law has taken me to a couple "unagi" (eel) places along the lakeshore there. There is another, smaller species of eel that is broadly exported from other Asian countries. Don't be fooled. It ain't the same thing at all. This Japanese unagi is grilled over hibachis and served with teriyaki sauce over rice. It's pretty much the only thing these joints serve. And it's as easy to like as BBQ chicken, I kid you not.

  23. #22

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    What is that? You mean from a school? What kind of school? I am assuming you don't mean that after 25 years of playing guitar you went back for a 4 year undergraduate program majoring in music performance just to get better at playing nylon strings. So what kind of program did you do?
    Guitar wise you can take an exam to directly enroll to the last two years to get a classical guitar degree in Greece, so i prepared some pieces and did that. Didn't have to do any theory because i have a jazz degree from Berklee and already had done the classical harmony counterpoint etc stuff, so i just did guitar lessons. Took about 3 years of serious study, i think i played average 2 hours a day on classical, more towards exams. I think it was the challenge that worked, that and Bach which is such a good study for classical. But i had some facility on nylon to begin with, i actually studied flamenco for a couple of years before. Which was a disappointment cause i could play stuff, but nothing sounded good.. so i realized it was sound i had to go after

  24. #23

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    I think Ralph Towner is truly a master on nylon strings jazz, because he can manage to use and adapt the classical technic into an improvisational context., meaning that he uses "classicaly fingered" arpeggios etc. I'm very much inspired by him as a player.

  25. #24

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    Gene Bertoncini was mentioned upthread, and I just want to mention him again. Wonderful, wonderful player with a great sound on the nylon string and a fantastic jazz conception. His solo records are especially worth hearing.

  26. #25

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    I play my nylon strings guitars all time.
    I use Frameworks and Antonio Sanchez 1020a model guitar.
    Best
    Kris