Underrated Jazz Albums

**destinytot** · 01-18-2017, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by grahambop

I think Kirk said he had friends in the town who he was staying with.

Joe Lee Wilson (RIP).

**destinytot** · 01-18-2017, 07:38 PM

Kirk Lightsey on piano again - I'm listening closely to Jimmy Raney at the moment:

**PMB** · 01-18-2017, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

That cover is unbelievable. And not in a good way.

Must've been designed and drawn by Joe's 10 year-old granddaughter.

Gives another meaning to "playing through the head".

**goldenwave77** · 01-18-2017, 11:00 PM

Another major artist, all too often overlooked, Earl Hines

Been reading thru Gunther Schuller's book, The Swing Era, 800 pp. of interesting reading picked up in a Detroit 2nd hand bookstore (remember those?). Been reading about Earl Hines, and that sent me to listening.

YT has Fine and Dandy, a small-group album he cut in the early 50's. Like most Big Band guys, Hines disbanded his group after WW II. Within the decade, he would be in semi-retirement in Oakland, CA where he purchased a tobacco store, to live out his days.

The piano playing on it is not quite human. Check out his "Honeysuckle Rose". Without Hines, there is no Tatum, as Tatum used to tune in to Hines' broadcasts on the radio, just like Nat Cole. For my money, Hines is better: a truer, more gifted improviser, whereas Tatum is often just embellishing. Skillful, technically accomplished embellishment, but oftentimes not true improvisation, not in the way Hines did. Earl H. once said something like "Pay attention....after the first chorus...it belongs to me".

Hines had a big band for years, and he was well-liked and had some big names in it...Dizzy and Charlie P. I think you can hear the roots of bebop in the way Hines plays...in particular, the way he just subdivides and plays against the beat....playing something in the left hand, and something else in the right hand, and then the pedals...Supposedly, he was not easy to play drums for. This guy is so far away from straight 4 time, that it's not funny. But he keeps it all going, and extricates himself from the little challenges he poses to himself.

His career was funny. He was saved from obscurity when he gave a series of NYC solo recitals in the mid-60's. Suddenly at the age of 65 or so, he was being voted Downbeat best pianist, and in the last 15 yrs. of his life, he did something like 80 or 100 albums. (He was famous for going into the studio, and laying down tracks in one take, one session...bang, and then out the door. And they were good. The guy just had absolute and total command of the keyboard.)

I saw him in DC in 1978. He was close to 80, and still played up a storm.

If Louis A. had not cut "Hello Dolly", the biggest hit of his career, he would have languished the last fifteen yrs. of his life. According to Schuller, Louis's style kind of stayed the same from at least the late '30's, and maybe earlier. Hines continued to progress, and many people think his recordings in his last decade of life are the best he did.

Someone had a thread the other day, asking about how to play more swingfully. I would say, go listen to Earl H. I think that guy's rhythmic command, and conception, is far, far more important than he is given credit for. He literally started out playing with a tuba, as the bass instrument, doing 2-beat music! Then a string bass, and a walking bass concept is introduced...and by his middle years---1940's and later, his concept brings us right to the brink of "modern jazz"---the bop guys.

**fasstrack** · 01-19-2017, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by goldenwave77

Another major artist, all too often overlooked, Earl Hines

Been reading thru Gunther Schuller's book, The Swing Era, 800 pp. of interesting reading picked up in a Detroit 2nd hand bookstore (remember those?). Been reading about Earl Hines, and that sent me to listening.

YT has Fine and Dandy, a small-group album he cut in the early 50's. Like most Big Band guys, Hines disbanded his group after WW II. Within the decade, he would be in semi-retirement in Oakland, CA where he purchased a tobacco store, to live out his days.

The piano playing on it is not quite human. Check out his "Honeysuckle Rose". Without Hines, there is no Tatum, as Tatum used to tune in to Hines' broadcasts on the radio, just like Nat Cole. For my money, Hines is better: a truer, more gifted improviser, whereas Tatum is often just embellishing. Skillful, technically accomplished embellishment, but oftentimes not true improvisation, not in the way Hines did. Earl H. once said something like "Pay attention....after the first chorus...it belongs to me".

Hines had a big band for years, and he was well-liked and had some big names in it...Dizzy and Charlie P. I think you can hear the roots of bebop in the way Hines plays...in particular, the way he just subdivides and plays against the beat....playing something in the left hand, and something else in the right hand, and then the pedals...Supposedly, he was not easy to play drums for. This guy is so far away from straight 4 time, that it's not funny. But he keeps it all going, and extricates himself from the little challenges he poses to himself.

His career was funny. He was saved from obscurity when he gave a series of NYC solo recitals in the mid-60's. Suddenly at the age of 65 or so, he was being voted Downbeat best pianist, and in the last 15 yrs. of his life, he did something like 80 or 100 albums. (He was famous for going into the studio, and laying down tracks in one take, one session...bang, and then out the door. And they were good. The guy just had absolute and total command of the keyboard.)

I saw him in DC in 1978. He was close to 80, and still played up a storm.

If Louis A. had not cut "Hello Dolly", the biggest hit of his career, he would have languished the last fifteen yrs. of his life. According to Schuller, Louis's style kind of stayed the same from at least the late '30's, and maybe earlier. Hines continued to progress, and many people think his recordings in his last decade of life are the best he did.

Someone had a thread the other day, asking about how to play more swingfully. I would say, go listen to Earl H. I think that guy's rhythmic command, and conception, is far, far more important than he is given credit for. He literally started out playing with a tuba, as the bass instrument, doing 2-beat music! Then a string bass, and a walking bass concept is introduced...and by his middle years---1940's and later, his concept brings us right to the brink of "modern jazz"---the bop guys.

I'm impressed that ANYONE in this forum even knows who Earl Hines IS. Must here think 'jazz' started with Pat Metheny and Chick Corea.

You must be an old, pre-digital codger like myself...

**mrcee** · 01-19-2017, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I'm impressed that ANYONE in this forum even knows who Earl Hines IS. Must here think 'jazz' started with Pat Metheny and Chick Corea.

You must be an old, pre-digital codger like myself...

I was just talking to a guy recently, not really a jazz person, and he was a big Art Tatum fan. He kept going on and on about him. I told him that Tatum was great but don't miss out on Earl Hines, who he'd never heard of. I would have thought that most everybody on this forum had heard of Earl Hines. I picked up some old sheet music for Deep Forest a while back. A nice tune.

**goldenwave77** · 01-19-2017, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I'm impressed that ANYONE in this forum even knows who Earl Hines IS. Must here think 'jazz' started with Pat Metheny and Chick Corea.

You must be an old, pre-digital codger like myself...

Getting on toward 60.

Well in JHS, we had a music teacher who spent about 8 weeks giving us an overview of jazz...the blues, ragtime, Dixie-land, Swing, bebop, cool, Hard bop, modal, and free. Listened to a lot of the Smithsonian Classic Jazz set, and that got me started going to the library. That and WRVR in the 70's, 24/7 and knowledgeable DJ's (Uncle Ed Beech).

The fusion thing led a lot of companies to re-issue albums, so I have a lot of Blue Note reissues. Like most people you tend to buy music at a certain pt. in your life. I still like the 1935-65 stuff the best. I guess I'm an old school, Moldy Fig, bebop kind of guy.

The book got me started listening to Hines. Also some Cab Calloway, who had a very successful band with good musicians, though he, like most Swing bands, didn't play straight jazz 85% of the time. (Also the 3 minute records, pre-1953 dictated a certain preference for certain types of music....Coleman Hawkins "Body and Soul", an honest to God instrumental, real jazz bestseller is VERY, VERY rare.)

Anyway, you listen to Hines, and he is just not quite human, in what he does. (I can see why people like Bill Evans, for a long time, was a little apprehensive about his own chops...he had the aura of Hines, and Tatum to contend with.)

**mr. beaumont** · 01-19-2017, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

I'm impressed that ANYONE in this forum even knows who Earl Hines IS. Must here think 'jazz' started with Pat Metheny and Chick Corea.

You must be an old, pre-digital codger like myself...

Actually, I'd say the preference here is by and far 1960's and earlier.

As for underrated albums, I'll submit two:

The Chase is On/Taylor's Tenors, by Charlie Rouse and Paul Quinchette (available as one CD now)

**fasstrack** · 01-19-2017, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by goldenwave77

Getting on toward 60.

Well in JHS, we had a music teacher who spent about 8 weeks giving us an overview of jazz...the blues, ragtime, Dixie-land, Swing, bebop, cool, Hard bop, modal, and free. Listened to a lot of the Smithsonian Classic Jazz set, and that got me started going to the library. That and WRVR in the 70's, 24/7 and knowledgeable DJ's (Uncle Ed Beech).

The fusion thing led a lot of companies to re-issue albums, so I have a lot of Blue Note reissues. Like most people you tend to buy music at a certain pt. in your life. I still like the 1935-65 stuff the best. I guess I'm an old school, Moldy Fig, bebop kind of guy.

The book got me started listening to Hines. Also some Cab Calloway, who had a very successful band with good musicians, though he, like most Swing bands, didn't play straight jazz 85% of the time. (Also the 3 minute records, pre-1953 dictated a certain preference for certain types of music....Coleman Hawkins "Body and Soul", an honest to God instrumental, real jazz bestseller is VERY, VERY rare.)

Anyway, you listen to Hines, and he is just not quite human, in what he does. (I can see why people like Bill Evans, for a long time, was a little apprehensive about his own chops...he had the aura of Hines, and Tatum to contend with.)

Ed Beach, AKA Sam Seashore; Desmond Ebbtide. I listened to RVR religiously---not just the jazz but the talk shows like Arthur Alpert's Connections. I remember Beach walking ahead of me to get on line in '75 or so at an Oscar Peterson concert featuring Joe Pass (Carnegie Hall?). Also remember him interviewing Pass and Pass mentioning Joe Puma and Pat Martino. I remember he was also the ONLY DJ to refuse to play a manager's playlist when the station was sold. (It soon went Country, then folded).

As far as 'straight jazz' played or not on gigs: I hired Eddie Locke to do a gig with James Chirillo, John Beal and myself. It was at Mercy College, for Black History Month---and these kids were CLUELESS. And Eddie WAS Black (and jazz) history

'Talk to them about jazz, Eddie'.

(One of several great speeches): 'We played for dancers, and once a night they'd have a little "hot time" where they played solos like we're doing now'...

My HS teacher, Phil Barr, didn't exactly steer me to jazz. He was a songwriter (like I am today). He hooked me up with a teacher, Carl Barry. Carl was really gone on Chuck Wayne, so after a time I began hitchhiking out to SI to study with Chuck---20 when I started. When I was ready Jimmy Raney came to town and I hit on HIM for lessons (2 worth their weight in gold). Then I started listening to everyone on any instrument.

That's how it happened, this life of poverty...

**fasstrack** · 01-19-2017, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Actually, I'd say the preference here is by and far 1960's and earlier.

As for underrated albums, I'll submit two:

The Chase is On/Taylor's Tenors, by Charlie Rouse and Paul Quinchette (available as one CD now)

Saw the Vice Pres live once--at the long-defunct Jazz Museum. I remember his gap-toothed grin---and not much else...