Metronomes are out of sync

[cowcow]

Weird question here... So lately I've noticed that my phone's metronome app and an iPad with Irealpro get out of sync when played together at the same BPM... the one on Irealpro is slightly slower, though not noticeable until a couple minutes in. Then I compared both metronomes with my computer using Google's metronome. That one gets out of sync with both the phone and the iPad at different rates. This is all at the same BPM. Do IC's really not have dependable clocks? How do I know which metronome is accurate (hah!)?

[mr. beaumont]

The question is, were they ever in sync?

[cowcow]

The answer to that is yes

edit: maybe not millisecond precisely in sync to begin with, but one becomes the offbeat of another after a couple minutes.

[dconeill]

This is common between timed circuits. The limits of precision kick in - and additionally it's unlikely that a person pressing buttons can start both at exactly the same time. After awhile differences accumulate and you start to notice.

[goldenwave77]

And isn't the real question here that real human beings hardly ever play with precise metronomic time. That any small jazz group is probably moving the beat around, and that good musicians hear this, and adjust to this. If they do this well, we say they are "locked in" and "have a good groove".

I have some Howard Roberts recordings, where he is playing against a click track, and is sounds fake and non-musical.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Am I the only one into this?

[Bluedawg]

You may need to develop a metronome that uses an atomic clock to get the kind of accuracy you're looking for ...

These days folks who want accurate timing use GPS as a clock source ..... at least that's consistent across the globe


LOL Probably just not worth it for a musical metronome

[mr. beaumont]

Am I the only one into this?

Nope, that was awesome.

[cowcow]

You may need to develop a metronome that uses an atomic clock to get the kind of accuracy you're looking for ...

These days folks who want accurate timing use GPS as a clock source ..... at least that's consistent across the globe


LOL Probably just not worth it for a musical metronome

Thank you for actually trying to answer my question

[goldenwave77]

If you took two clocks and wound them up next to each other, and then looked at them after a bit, would they precisely register the same time?! Unlikely.

Isn't a metronome just a clock-like device? I mean if they get out of sync, they're obviously running on different cycles.

[cowcow]

Yes, but these are on computers. I would have more faith in clocks used by IC's than in mechanical clocks.

[goldenwave77]

True enough, but even with electronic devices, some are more precise than others. Tolerances of mfg., etc. Maybe some difference in the internal algorithm that generates the timing.

Do you why the Russians continued to manufacture vacuum tubes after most of the U.S. companies stopped? The answer is that in a nuclear incident, the electromagnetic shock wave effect would have knocked out a lot of IC's whereas vacuum tubes would still function. So, back in the mid-80's maybe....brands like Sovtek were still being made and using Russian tubes, which were pretty well made, and rugged. Good for us guitar players.

I think the Russians may have even used vacuum tubes in some of their airplanes. I think the US Air Force had a healthy respect for the MIG fighters.


Probably in the metronome "performance piece" that was posted, digital metronomes would have taken a lot longer to get out of sync.

[dconeill]

... So lately I've noticed that my phone's metronome app and an iPad with Irealpro get out of sync when played together at the same BPM... [Google Metronome] gets out of sync with both the phone and the iPad at different rates. ... How do I know which metronome is accurate (hah!)?

Some more thoughts ...
If you want to know what time it is, you consult one timepiece. If you consult 2, you'll never know what time it is because they'll always be different from each other.

I think the fundamental answer to your concern about your three metronomes being out of sync with each other is that it probably is of no consequence. If you use only one metronome at a time, that will be both precise enough and accurate enough for practicing music.

I take your question "which metronome is accurate" to mean, "which metronome produces the actual time interval I set it for". The answer is almost certainly none of them. Each metronome produces a pulse to some specification of precision, but the actual pulse interval of each metronome could be anywhere within the specification of precision of that metronome, and it could vary within that specification as the voltage of the power supply changes, or as the tightness of the spring changes in a mechanical metronome.

But for all of that, each metronome is probably more precise than a human musician would be.

[cosmic gumbo]

[emanresu]

They shouldn't go off sync in such a short time. If they do, they have been written badly.
If they use a dumb 1 timer that doesn't get compensated constantly with the real time clock, they will sure go wondering.

I wrote one so I know In chrome, using their timer, there was a steady 1-3ms mistake per tick. I'd only imagine that phones and tablets can have even more. It's fixable though.

I liked FREE METRONOME ONLINE - Best Metronome.com . That felt pretty solid.

[sgosnell]

GPS uses time synchronization to determine location, so it's an important consideration. Einstein showed that time is relative, not absolute. Before the first GPS satellites were launched, there was some debate in the community about whether the relativistic effects of the speed and gravity differences would need to be accounted for. The satellites were launched with those corrections turned off, but able to be switched on if necessary. It was almost immediately found that those had to be accounted for, and were turned on, and all GPS satellites thereafter have them, in its own atomic clock software. It's also necessary to account for the differences in the atmosphere as the air moves, and becomes more or less dense to make precise location adjustments, thus the addition of WAAS to the GPS system. In short completely accurate timekeeping is impossible even using atomic clocks, nevermind the cheap circuits found in consumer computers. If you could find a way to make the hardware absolutely accurate, you could become a very rich person. Computers vary in time by minutes per week in some cases, thus NTP (Network Time Protocol) had to be invented to synchronize networks. It takes a finite amount of time just to send a time signal to another computer in a network, and more to send it over the internet, in an unpredictable path with unpredictable numbers of relays. But software now does an acceptable job of syncing, but it's still far from perfect, and you still can't sync devices to more than a few microseconds, and milliseconds is the order of the best consumer syncing. So any metronomes will go out of sync sooner or later.

[TH]

I set my watch this morning. I set it for a 24 hour day. But dang it!, nobody can't tell me that the earth isn't slowing down, tides are slowing down the spin of the earth every day and I'll swear today is longer than it was yesterday.
It really bothers me.

David