Finger Pain (Fretting Hand)

[TF]

For several months I've noticed a little bit of pain in the lowest joint of the index finger of my fretting hand, just above the bottom knuckle. Mostly when I play bar chords. Not sure what to do here, other than:

1) Go to lighter gauge strings - my gigging axe is an amplified Martin 000-16 with .012-.054 lights
2) Go to a shorter scale length than current 25-1/2", either Gibson-style 24-3/4" or 3/4 size guitar with 22 or 23 inch scale
3) Start playing amplified nylon-string
4) Go full electric again with a (floppy) set of 10s
5) Focus on my vocals
6) Give up my second instrument of mandolin (though it causes no pain)
7) Go back to my childhood instrument of piano and give up guitar

Thanks for any suggestions.

[TF]

It seems to feel better when I

... avoid bar chords
... take an aspirin

... aww, there it comes, that pain again. ____ the ______ guitar anyway!

[Ol' Fret]

>> Not sure what to do here, other than: <<


Might be related to the digital flexor tendon or the metacarpophalangeal joint. Or are you talking about the proximal interphalangeal joint (PIP)?

8) Get the accurate diagnosis by a qualified doctor (here: hand surgeon or rheumatologist) - only this will get you the most expedient therapy. Everything else, IMO, is a waste of time and energy.


Be prepared though that there might be a little chance your actual pain can't be explained by even the best diagnostician. The human body differs a bit from the entrails you can find in a car repair shop.
In this case follow your points 1) to 7) above. If the pain persists or aggravates for an extended period (after six months to one year), a follow-up check will usually bring the cause to light.

[goldenwave77]

Do you stretch before playing? There are a bunch of youtube videos that demonstrate some simple warm-ups that classical people use.

[docdosco]

For several months I've noticed a little bit of pain in the lowest joint of the index finger of my fretting hand, just above the bottom knuckle. Mostly when I play bar chords. Not sure what to do here, other than:

1) Go to lighter gauge strings - my gigging axe is an amplified Martin 000-16 with .012-.054 lights
2) Go to a shorter scale length than current 25-1/2", either Gibson-style 24-3/4" or 3/4 size guitar with 22 or 23 inch scale
3) Start playing amplified nylon-string
4) Go full electric again with a (floppy) set of 10s
5) Focus on my vocals
6) Give up my second instrument of mandolin (though it causes no pain)
7) Go back to my childhood instrument of piano and give up guitar

Thanks for any suggestions.

My left hand siezed on my single on Sat. Wouldn't follow my commands to open and close. The muscles burned up my forearm getting worse as the gig progressed. I hope it goes away and doesn't effect my playing in the long run. I will try playing later today and see how my hand works (....or doesn't)

However, last Sat. I had my vocals to get me through. Whatever else you do, refining your vocals and learning more vocal tunes can't hurt.

Good luck and keep us posted. These threads on hand health are important to us all.

[jdaguitar2]

I had a situation in college studying classical guitar practicing 8 hours a day where my left hand ring and pinky finger went numb. I freaked out and thought I'd never play again so I went to a chiropractor and found that I had a "rubbed nerve". He explained that playing with a bent wrist caused this issue, I have not had this problem since and that was almost 6 years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ol' Fret]

>> Whatever else you do, refining your vocals and learning more vocal tunes can't hurt. <<

I couldn't agree more. It may sound bizarre, but some - including myself - appreciate when jazz instrumentalists start singing. Even when their vocals are not so refined, or when they just recite the lyrics of the song.
Dexter Gordon learned from his idol Lester Young that it was a good idea to know the lyrics of a song if you want to understand its essence. One of Gordon’s idiosyncrasies was to recite a few lines from the lyrics before playing the song. It many cases, it provides context for the emotional content/mood of a song. In these instances, Dexter could be giving information to the audience necessary to understand his performance of a specific standard.

Archie Shepp comes to my mind:

... or on solid body guitar:

[citizenk74]

In addition to the excellent advice above, I'd have a look at your guitar. If your Martin is like mine, it came from the factory with a nut that might be a tad high, from my perspective. Getting a luthier to lower it may take some persuading, as it will void your warranty, but it's worth a shot. When I was twenty, I could handle that sort of thing. A few decades later, not so much. Good luck.

[docdosco]

>> Whatever else you do, refining your vocals and learning more vocal tunes can't hurt. <<

I couldn't agree more. It may sound bizarre, but some - including myself - appreciate when jazz instrumentalists start singing. Even when their vocals are not so refined, or when they just recite the lyrics of the song.
Dexter Gordon learned from his idol Lester Young that it was a good idea to know the lyrics of a song if you want to understand its essence. One of Gordon’s idiosyncrasies was to recite a few lines from the lyrics before playing the song. It many cases, it provides context for the emotional content/mood of a song. In these instances, Dexter could be giving information to the audience necessary to understand his performance of a specific standard.

Dexter Gordon could have belched out a lyric and sounded good, I think. In fact, playing Bud Powell in the Round Midnight movie, he supposedly drank enough booze 'in character' to belch quite a bit, although Bud was a junkie mostly.... and drinking I suspect was simply an extra monkey on his back for him. (There was a bit of Lester Young mixed into the character also, if I recall)

Thanks for the links. Hopefully in the new year if my hands allow, I'll post a few guitar/vocals with my Zoom. I have another gig with Thelma Jones Christmas eve, so I'll get one of these gigs on video soon too. We do a Joe Pass and Ella type thing only I sing too (and a bit better than Joe, I suspect) but I don't play guitar nearly as good..... (understatement of the year, that is) .....haha

Do you have any singing you could post? A vocal/guitar section here on the forum would be tits. however just some new threads on singing with guitar would do....

BTW, here's one for you:

[oldane]

Lester Young did in fact sing once on a Verve session backed by the Oscar Peterson Trio. Just for the fun of it he began singing "Two for Tango" between two takes. Norman Granz persuaded him to do it again with the tapes rolling which he only did reluctantly - and with just about enough change of the text to be sure it couldn't be published at the time. It was only made publically known many decades later when it was released in the boxed set with all his Verve output.

[ragman1]

For several months I've noticed a little bit of pain in the lowest joint of the index finger of my fretting hand, just above the bottom knuckle.

Why are the others posting these vids on a thread about a painful index finger???!!!

You better

a) rest that hand
b) don't do big stretches
c) ice it
d) show it a doctor/physio (dedicated music physios exist)
e) be prepared to lay back till it's better. It's not worth messing up your fretting hand.

To be honest, it doesn't sound that serious, thankfully, but rest it you must. It might just be the way you're playing bar chords, of course; too much grip. If it doesn't go away after a while when you stop then you might have a problem.

[Ol' Fret]

Why are the others posting these vids on a thread about a painful index finger???!!!

You better

a) rest that hand
b) don't do big stretches
c) ice it
d) show it a doctor/physio (dedicated music physios exist)
e) be prepared to lay back till it's better. It's not worth messing up your fretting hand.

To be honest, it doesn't sound that serious, thankfully, but rest it you must. It might just be the way you're playing bar chords, of course; too much grip. If it doesn't go away after a while when you stop then you might have a problem.

Well, see point 5) of the OP above.

Among other things, I spent several years doing surgery of the hand and upper extremity (Switzerland and Germany), but must confess that this happened a long time ago. It's gratifying if more substantial or more up to date experience is offered. Always funny to be able to talk shop in the bleak cyberspace - there is so much talk about guitars already!

[goldenwave77]

Among other things, I spent several years doing surgery of the hand and upper extremity (Switzerland and Germany), but must confess that this happened a long time ago. It's gratifying if more substantial or more up to date experience is offered. Always funny to be able to talk shop in the bleak cyberspace - there is so much talk about guitars already!

Not quite sure what you mean by "doing surgery". Were you the patient, or the surgeon...or a surgeon who was a patient?

[Doctor Jeff]

It sounds like either arthritis or possibly tendonitis due to overuse/stress. If you are over 40, it'd be hard to say it's not osteoarthritis.

I'm sure you know who this is?



Having said that, whether arthritis or soft tissue inflammation from overuse, I agree with the above recommendations. You need to change the stresses on your fretting finger. Look at having the nut adjusted for lower action near the nut. Switch to lower gauge strings--TI strings have less tension for a given gauge. I think D'Addario makes a brand called silk and steel that is lower tension as well. You won't have the same brightness of sound, of course...

I would also look at a different neck profile and shorter scale length. Let me recommend the Godin 5th Avenue/Kingpin as a particularly comfortable guitar.

It wouldn't hurt to practice a lot with the nylon string. I recently started going back to mine and am enjoying it quite a bit. It is certainly less stressful on the hand for me.

Finally, you can get a hot wax arthritis bath that some hand arthritis sufferers swear by. Completely organic and not invasive in any way.

Amazon.com: HoMedics Thera-P Paraspa Plus Paraffin Bath: Beauty

As a doctor you'd think I would recommend going to see a doctor, but, no. That'd be the last thing I would do (for a variety of reasons, including financial). What would be preferable would be a physical therapist specializing in musician overuse syndromes. If you live in a large city with a lot of performers, especially orchestral, this shouldn't be too hard to find.

[Doctor Jeff]

No offense to the hand surgeons out there!

[goldenwave77]

[QUOTE=Doctor Jeff;722538]No offense to the hand surgeons out there![/QUOTE]

As someone whose ex-wife was an M.D., I learned that (1) medicine--and the body, is not perfectly understood, even today, (2) individual organisms vary a LOT, in how they react, and present, i.e. everyone is not the same, and (iii) the human body should not be viewed as a machine---i.e. "it's broke, now fix it, and make it as good as it was when I was 20(!)" is often not feasible.

Amoebas--one-celled organisms can live forever, but they have certain limitations...in their behavior and capability. Human beings, multi-system and vastly more complex, can do more but suffer disadvantages (parts wear out as we age, and cancer---basically, runaway cell replication).

So, it's just common sense not to look to surgical treatment as the first option. I think most surgeons would agree with this.

[Gilpy]

I have had a problem with my index finger, similar to the OP's, for a few years. The finger would get sore at that lower joint and actually froze up on me in the middle of a couple gigs. I was playing in an oldies rock band, lots of bar chords, string bending, 4 hour gigs....stress on the hand!

A hand surgeon who has helped some local musicians examined my hand (for free!-he's a music fan). He said the joint was worn and that the tendons that work the finger were stressed. His advice was the same as others here have mentioned - rest the hand and stop abusing the finger. He also said to avoid bending that finger back (towards the top of the hand) because it's bad for the joint. The finger wants to curve forward.

I quit that rock band and cut out a lot of the bar chords. I joined a R & B/ funk band where I don't have to play more than 3 hours, and less soloing. I stay away from skinny-neck guitars, because they cause hand fatigue after a few hours.


I'm now playing more gigs than ever, but the problem with my finger is gone. So, it seems this problem can get better!

[Ol' Fret]

Not quite sure what you mean by "doing surgery". Were you the patient, or the surgeon...or a surgeon who was a patient?

Patient? No way - I'm impatient!
Some do or perform surgery, some others undergo surgical procedures. Perhaps the difference is not so great, and I have not yet noticed it.

From the Merriam-Webster on the definition of 'surgery':

1 : a branch of medicine concerned with diseases and conditions requiring or amenable to operative or manual procedures
2 : alterations made as if by surgery <literary surgery>
3 a British : a physician's or dentist's office b : a room or area where surgery is performed
4 a : the work done by a surgeon b : Operation

[goldenwave77]

Well, my 17-yr. old son noticed it. He messed up his hip from soccer (probably overuse).

He had a torn hip socket, had it operated on by the best in the business, and spent 6 mos. rehabbing. He's never been the same---has lost flexibility and nerve sensation.

Course the alternative was that he would have walked with a limp for the rest of his life. So, all in all, this is a good result.

But surgery is no joke.

[sgcim]

Dexter Gordon could have belched out a lyric and sounded good, I think. In fact, playing Bud Powell in the Round Midnight movie, he supposedly drank enough booze 'in character' to belch quite a bit, although Bud was a junkie mostly.... and drinking I suspect was simply an extra monkey on his back for him. (There was a bit of Lester Young mixed into the character also, if I recall)

Thanks for the links. Hopefully in the new year if my hands allow, I'll post a few guitar/vocals with my Zoom. I have another gig with Thelma Jones Christmas eve, so I'll get one of these gigs on video soon too. We do a Joe Pass and Ella type thing only I sing too (and a bit better than Joe, I suspect) but I don't play guitar nearly as good..... (understatement of the year, that is) .....haha

Do you have any singing you could post? A vocal/guitar section here on the forum would be tits. however just some new threads on singing with guitar would do....

BTW, here's one for you:

I like the Velvet Guitar version better, but it just shows what a spontaneous musician Lenny was. The two versions are very different. The cat was a genius:

[docdosco]

I like the Velvet Guitar version better, but it just shows what a spontaneous musician Lenny was. The two versions are very different. The cat was a genius:

Good one. He doesn't sing on this but Ted Hawke is playing drums. His son Guy Hawke is my drummer and is on his way over to my house at present. Indulge me a bit. Big deal, I know. This is a very, very thin connection to Lenny, but it is one, I suppose.

Lenny Breau was my boyhood guitar hero in Canada during the later 60' early 70's. I learned Freight Train, The Claw and a few other Lenny tunes. I learned to do Merle Travis picking like Lenny does on That's all. I was teenager. He was a guitar God.

Sorry to digress.... After this, back to our sore and failing digits and vocalizing (Maybe a Lenny thread would be cool again though)

[sgcim]

Another great vocal performance by Lenny:

[docdosco]

Another great vocal performance by Lenny:

Beauty. Thank you.

Here is a guy I like to try and emulate. Kind of haunting, his recordings, as he came to such a bad end. But I love his horn, his voice and tune selection...

That Old Feeling. Great tune. Maybe I'll dust this tune off.....

[TF]

The Martin, which I bought new 19 years ago (when I was 45) probably can't be made much easier to play. A great-sounding guitar but not super easy to play. Probably have to go to an easier-playing guitar. Age 64, osteoarthritis - I could believe it, despite my overall pretty-good health.

Thanks for the great replies.

[docdosco]

The Martin, which I bought new 19 years ago (when I was 45) probably can't be made much easier to play. A great-sounding guitar but not super easy to play. Probably have to go to an easier-playing guitar. Age 64, osteoarthritis - I could believe it, despite my overall pretty-good health.

Thanks for the great replies.

That's the answer. I found my 17" box a bit hard on my hands and I started taking a 15" Martin Taylor Peerless to gigs and I love it. It's smaller, lighter, and the action is super sweet and easy to play. Just find yourself something compact with creamy easy action and see how that goes. BTW, welcome to the club. I have a bunch of those crappy itis conditions too....