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02-04-2021, 09:23 AM #426Dutchbopper GuestNo, but I would not go to any of the concerts of the artists you mentioned even if I was paid so it's a no brainer. Was it Oberg?
Originally Posted by frankhond
DB
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02-04-2021 09:23 AM
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A friend of mine gets dragged off by his wife occasionally to see those big pop acts, the tickets cost about £100 each or some such b/s., and he is basically watching them on a big screen from a great distance.
Then he goes with me to a jazz gig and it’s about £10 - £15, occasionally a bit more for a big visiting US player, we are about 6 feet away, and we usually get to chat with the musicians afterwards.
I know which I think is better value.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Apples and oranges? ... Pat Metheny from row X at £50-60 a ticket?
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I probably wouldn’t go to that either. I used to see Joe Pass from the front table at Ronnie Scotts for £5!
Also saw Pat Martino and Kenny Burrell there for the same price.
And George van Eps with Howard Alden for a tenner at another club.
John Abercrombie with his organ trio at Ronnies for £5.
John Abercrombie (the year before he died) for about £15 at another club.
Allan Holdsworth at Ronnies for £5.
One night my friends saw George Benson for free at Ronnies because he came in and jammed with the main act, after his own concert had finished (annoyingly I wasn’t there for some reason)!
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02-04-2021, 11:26 AM #430Dutchbopper GuestMe neither. The only bigger jazz concert I ever attended was Pat Martino. Originally Posted by grahambop
I saw all the Dutch jazz giants for free in a small bar where I organised jams and concerts myself. Very intimate, as it should be. I filmed maestro Martijn van Iterson just 2 meters from the stage he was on. See vid below to give you an idea.
DB
PS. This does not sound particularly boring to me. His solos are masterpieces.
Last edited by Dutchbopper; 02-04-2021 at 11:47 AM.
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Off topic but you reminded me - Originally Posted by grahambop
I Went to hear Bill Frisell once at the Bass Clef, people behind me started talking, when I finally turned round to frown at them most of the Jazz Messengers where standing along the back wall, not sure how pleased BF was - they kind of took over his gig...
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I saw Joey Calderazzo (piano) at the Tenor Clef once, and Branford Marsalis came straight from his gig with Sting and sat in for the last set. It was great, in fact I thought Branford played better than when I saw him at Ronnies with his own band!
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Wow that guy sounds soooo good!
I had a 1950s ES-125 on loan from an employer for 7 years. I still miss it; it had the best straight-ahead clean electric jazz tone of any guitar I’ve ever played.
Some of MVI’s albums are a bit too modern (effects, fusion) for me - could I get some recommendations for recordings where he sounds like this?
Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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I like pizza.
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02-04-2021, 03:46 PM #435Dutchbopper GuestI have a 125 too. Excellent guitar for that classic bop sound. Originally Posted by BickertRules
Martijn's CDs often feature his own compositions. You could try "The Whole Bunch" or "Streetwise." His compositions are more contemporary but his guitar sound is straight ahead on those albums. That said, I like his live tone better than what I hear on these albums. He usually sounds live just like I recorded him. On his albums he sounds a bit more polished.
Tracks of 'The Whole Bunch" are on Youtube. Streetwise is on Youtube as a full album.
If you like standards there is this CD that he made with pianist Peter Beets. It is on Youtube in its entirety too. Click here. Some tracks feature Joe Cohn.
DB
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Lady Gaga showed up to at the one place in town that is know for jazz and jazz jams after a concert too. Mostly her own musicians on stage, but a couple of the regulars are there too (don't know how many, but the guitar player for one of the locals at least). She performed for half an hour Originally Posted by grahambop
Prince had a habit of showing up unannounced at one of out smaller places after his big concerts with his band and just freely perfrom for a couple of hours more from say midnight to 2 am. (First time was a surprise after that people started to expect it)
Last edited by Lobomov; 02-04-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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I have a 60's 125 and it sounds great but the neck isn't as wide as my L7 or 175. Thus it takes me a while to sound clean playing the 125 since I mostly play those other guitars (or a Martin acoustic). Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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Thanks for the tips!
I like the Beets album, another one to add to my growing list of drummerless jazz albums!
Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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02-05-2021, 09:38 AM #439Dutchbopper GuestI have vids of the live show of that album in my Blog. The entire show is in 3 installments (Bop Till You Drop 1-2-3) Originally Posted by BickertRules
DB
Dutchbopper's Jazz Guitar Blog: Bop Till You Drop
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I love how well she does that tune. It was better in her movie though. It was horrible when the trumpet player chimed in. He could have played his part softly, but nope, he said I’ve got a trumpet and I’m going to play it loud. He ruined it. Originally Posted by Lobomov
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Due to Lady Gaga making songs like Check to Check relatively popular again, I added them to my playlist. The only thing that somewhat gets me is when someone says "oh, you're playing Lady Gaga's song". Oh, well, at least they have heard the melody and have something to relate to. Sometimes someone will even ask if they can sing the lyrics. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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If it ever becomes really popular, I'm outa here!! If somethign is too popular, I probably don't need to know about it. Think Facebook, skinny jeans, Karaoke etc. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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As with Western European Classical Music (Bach >>>), American Indigenous Classical Music (aka Jazz) survived its popular phase. So, the question isn't properly posed as "why isn't Jazz *popular* TODAY" --- (that's like asking "why isn't today yesterday...").
The consumer money machine buys whatever the so-called "music industry" spoon feeds them. Currently, that's Rap (which is not music) and, of course, "Pop." Jazz WAS "Pop" - during its "popular phase" (roughly 1920 to the early 1950s). People danced to it. Singers were featured.
When big bands became too expensive, small groups emerged. When THAT happened, space for extended solos emerged. Jazz became a "listening music" and that was pretty much it for its "popular phase." Too complex for non-trained ears. Not danceable. Mainly instrumental.
Rock copped the idea of an extended solo from Jazz. During the "albums years" of Rock, players could get away with that.
Technology killed that. Name ONE "Pop" tune in the last 20 years that has a guitar solo.....
It's even worse presently. Spotify and its ilk destroyed anything over about 2.5 minutes. No room for Jazz type solos. Even "B" sides can't exist in the digital world!
Name ALL the non-singers on the Top 40 in the last 70 years:
Herb Albert (also as a singer, and he owned the record company) ... Early 60s
Classical Gas (one song) ... Mid 60s
Chuck Mangione ... Mid 70s
Kenny G ... Mid 80s to present
(George Benson doesn't "count" - he was on it for singing)
I might have missed someone, but you get the idea:
The "public" relates to SINGING and DANCING (because they can do these things themselves, however badly). They CANNOT play a saxophone, guitar or piano (thanks to ill-sighted cost cutting of music programs in schools). Most of the "Jazz audience" (like golf, baseball, etc.) consists of people who've played an instrument in school (because if they did, in addition to singing and dancing, they can play - can RELATE) to an instrument that's "front and center."
Rap proves that what the public *really* likes is words (more than melody, as Rap doesn't have any; it's just talking) - as long as those words are titillating and monetize the hood. And a "drum" beat (which is bizarre, since Rap uses fake drums).
Today, so-called "Jazz colleges" (Berklee, etc.) spit out LOTS of competent players on all instruments. Most of them sound the same (separate discussion), and for ONLY $500,000 or so in tuition, etc. ... BAD ROI!
These young players have a chance to increase Jazz's "footprint." It COULD enter a second "popular phase," if (and only if) said players hip 1000s of their social media buddies to Jazz.
Most of these players (as with college "student athletes") will NOT make a lifelong career as a musician (which gets harder to do with each passing year). Maybe a portion of their career will be that, but probably not all of it. Some will end up teaching (which is one reason for the explosion of Jazz colleges - older players need bread, so they teach).
Some, like me, will find a way to gird one's loins for life outside of music altogether (law). The trick here is to find a day gig that's portable and not terribly time consuming (I write legal stuff; I practiced straight up for 25 years).
So, there will ALWAYS be Jazz PLAYERS (hey, it's fun!). But the key to keeping somebody around to LISTEN to it starts with THOSE PLAYERS.
Art didn't call his band the "Messengers" for nothing...
And the more MELODIC and DANCEABLE the Jazz, the better the chance that Mr. / Ms. consumer will RELATE to it, and thus the better chance for a ...
JAZZ SECOND COMING.
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Heh. We added "Take Five" in our music school student's band. I play the bass guitar there. So I was winging walking bass and they really got excited. Said something like "omg its like the real thing". I was very surprised for this reaction. Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
And one of my student plays "Full House" with great enthusiasm.. not so keen on any classical pieces though.
So there is nothing wrong with jazz or how it's received by.. new people. It just gets covered with a mountain of... lets say "content". ugh.
Like some people say that todays movies aint much more than "content". Made by "content creators".
So, it's just a problem of current general attitude maybe? Need for abundance and plenty kills the spirit of the creation.
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There's nothing "wrong" with Jazz. I've played gigs at psych wards and the patients love it, as do children. Adult consumers are spoon-fed everything, from what to buy to what to think to what to eat to what to do.
Kids and mental patients are not racist, sexist or ageist, either. All are learned behaviors, as is a not liking Jazz. The music industry does NOT want Jazz to survive, as it challenges it's hold.
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What I find ironic is jazz is predominately an American art form. That is much more popular in Europe or Japan.
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It's because American music has always been driven by technology. Originally Posted by jaco
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Jazz isn't popular because it is old and our global pop culture only values the new. Jazz has been recorded for over a hundred years. What other music form is that old and still popular? 'Country', some might say, but that has changed beyond recognition and is more like pop than ever before. Even newer forms, like hip hop, change rapidly, because that is what our accelerated culture demands: I first saw the term 'old school' in reference to hip hop over twenty-five years ago. Popular music is generational: when you are young, you don't like what your parents liked, or what your older siblings like. It has to keep changing. In any case, music has to change because otherwise, people would stop buying it and the music industry would collapse.
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Could you elaborate on that Steve?
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"Sort of" true. Jazz IS an "American art form." It is properly called "American Indigenous Classical Music. Originally Posted by jaco
Which is why when the Beatles, etc. did their "British Invasion" thing, lots of American Jazz cats did the reverse - i.e, Dexter Gordon.
Part of it is racism, although Rap didn't suffer that issue due to its monetization of the glory of the ghetto.
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