Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

**Stevebol** · 02-03-2016, 03:28 PM

Smooth jazz and pop are evil now.

**MaxTwang** · 02-03-2016, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

haha, I wish!

I think that moment for jazz is gone, it's too respected now in society. Maybe that's a problem? Respected doesn't mean loved, doesn't mean popular. Rock'n'roll has replaced jazz as devil music long since... That's the image for the masses. Wanna do drugs and get laid a lot? Join a rock band! And who doesn't? Maybe now even rock has lost that vibe. I teach rock band classes for 10 year old kids, for God's sake!

And there's the answer to this thread's question: It's not popular because it is no longer viewed as rebellious, edgy and passionate.

**targuit** · 02-03-2016, 03:43 PM

Simple question. If jazz is so unpopular, and we know that is true in terms of sales and the public response, why is Michael Buble so popular? While he may not be one's favorite jazz singer, he is doing pretty well or so it would seem.

**henryrobinett** · 02-03-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

And there's the answer to this thread's question: It's not popular because it is no longer viewed as rebellious, edgy and passionate.

I had a student who loves punk. Ok he's an inmate. He's all about rebellion. Skin Head, but a very smart guy. I tried to get him to see that in its day jazz was total rebellion and to think of it in those terms. From ragtime to bebop. It still is in a certain sense. Make no mistake. But it's achieved a certain artistic and intellectual cache.

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-03-2016, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well that's just it. I don't want to be a d*** or be related to any of those they are arguing with. And I DO teach, most often not private students. I DO care that people hate jazz. It's my livelihood. And I think they are applying a very short ruler to judge what jazz is to their minds.

I see. Well, the thing is, at least with me, I'm passionate about music, but it's not limited to jazz. I'm just as passionate about rock'n'roll, rock, funk, or blues, for that matter. And if I have to play it or teach, I enjoy it just the same.. So if somebody doesn't show love for jazz, I can relate to them on another level hopefully, and it doesn't bother me as much. I never felt like it's my mission to convert somebody to jazz, that's the point.

**henryrobinett** · 02-03-2016, 04:26 PM

It doesn't ruin my relationship with them. And I don't feel it's my MISSION to convert followers. But I do feel like an ambassador, and I do what I can because few others will.

And as I said I love and play ALL types of music. But everything I do is infused somehow with the sound of jazz because it's me. People can enjoy my playing and my music and nor consider they're listening to jazz.

**Stevebol** · 02-03-2016, 04:28 PM

Genre against genre. Musician against audience.
Strange times we live in.

**AlsoRan** · 02-03-2016, 04:29 PM

I had a funny thought.

I guess it all comes down to the thinking that Jazz is inherently good music so everyone should like it. If they don't, its because they have not developed the ability to appreciate good music.

Now, Norweigan Extreme Black Metal is bad. So, if you don't like it, that's OK because you are not expected to like bad music - just good music like Jazz.

(I am being sarcastic but also realistic about how some of our Jazz brethren approach this topic.)

**henryrobinett** · 02-03-2016, 04:37 PM

Well no, I don't think everyone should like it. I'm talking about hate. I'm talking about down right hostility. I don't get that. It's more than what might meet the eye. There's more there than just not liking the style of music.

**guitarplayer007** · 02-03-2016, 04:39 PM

I would say most people that don't play an instrument aren't going to appreciate jazz nearly as much as other musicians . Even when I listen to some outside jazz I think, who really listens to this except other musicians trying to play that style.

**guitarplayer007** · 02-03-2016, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by targuit

Simple question. If jazz is so unpopular, and we know that is true in terms of sales and the public response, why is Michael Buble so popular? While he may not be one's favorite jazz singer, he is doing pretty well or so it would seem.

Because he 's a singer, most people like songs with lyrics as opposed to instrumental music

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-03-2016, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well no, I don't think everyone should like it. I'm talking about hate. I'm talking about down right hostility. I don't get that. It's more than what might meet the eye. There's more there than just not liking the style of music.

Now, that's something I can't speak of, it's must be your personal experience, Henry. I never encountered hate toward jazz from anyone personally. People could say they don't like it, or don't understand it, but down right hostility? Never.

**gggomez** · 02-03-2016, 04:53 PM

if i had the talent my miles davis cover band would be practicing right now. The miles movie could be very successful if the trailer is anything to go buy

**henryrobinett** · 02-03-2016, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Now, that's something I can't speak of, it's must be your personal experience, Henry. I never encountered hate toward jazz from anyone personally. People could say they don't like it, or don't understand it, but down right hostility? Never.

Frequent audio engineering sites or general music sites, guitar players, rock musicians, songwriters. You'll run into a lot. Also the better you are, regardless of field, you have a target on your back. Maybe that's it too.

**henryrobinett** · 02-03-2016, 05:05 PM

I've had people just go on, sometimes with an effort to be polite, other times not, online and in person, about how much they absolutely CANNOT STAND jazz. I mean attack mode. It might have been a bit of m, "You think you're all that? Well I think it's shit," type thing.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-03-2016, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well no, I don't think everyone should like it. I'm talking about hate. I'm talking about down right hostility. I don't get that. It's more than what might meet the eye. There's more there than just not liking the style of music.

I would call Buble a pop singer, not a jazz singer.

**christianm77** · 02-03-2016, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

Social perception has a lot to do with it, just saying...

I would think if it were actually like that we might get better audiences.

Mind you a young lady flashed her boobs at us at Love Supreme.

I bet fucking Troika didn't get boobs.

We must be on the right track...

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-03-2016, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I would call Buble a pop singer, not a jazz singer.

Why not? He sings jazz standards, good voice, top notch musicians playing for him, still not jazz?

**Stevebol** · 02-03-2016, 05:48 PM

Buble is an OK saloon singer. That's what I call them. Better than average for sure.

**christianm77** · 02-03-2016, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lazz

A couple of years back, I wrote a paper about the endless musty "Jazz Is Dead" debate.
I thought I'd share it here because other interested jazzers may find it germaine to this "popularity" discussion.

There is also an accompanying illustrative play-list of tracks that I hope those interested can successfully download.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rki2ar3tq...QUhBMkHla?dl=0

Core point, I guess, is about relevance.
In the U.S. jazz seems to have lost relevance, whereas in Europe the tradition continues as relevant.

Also, this:
10 of the best jazz clubs in Europe | Travel | The Guardian

It does seem as if there is more appetite for instrumental music on the continent.... And the London is pretty vibrant (god I hate that word) because there are significant numbers of foreigners and second and third generation immigrant communities who offset the natural, brutish philistinism of the Anglo Saxon peoples, and who also are on nodding terms with this thing called 'time/feel.'

In terms of 'tradition' in the UK. Well I don't mean to be nasty, but I don't think we ever had a good handle on a jazz tradition. We have a fine tradition of being very good at sight reading and completely unconnected from the waist down.

France has a tradition, for example.

Of course if anyone non British says that I'll smash their face in :-)

**Stevebol** · 02-03-2016, 05:50 PM

^^^
haha
That's the spirit!

**christianm77** · 02-03-2016, 05:51 PM

Tubby Hayes could play the saxophone. TBH I'm not too sure about any English jazzers since then, there's a reason why if any of our lot are any good they go and live in the states...

**nick1994** · 02-03-2016, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

Why not? He sings jazz standards, good voice, top notch musicians playing for him, still not jazz?

hey, lady gaga can sing standards, has good voice but she's not a jazz singer.

**nick1994** · 02-03-2016, 05:54 PM

Brits have Allan Holdsworth, that's all you need. (well he has defected to US and lived there since the 70s?)

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-03-2016, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by nick1994

hey, lady gaga can sing standards, has good voice but she's not a jazz singer.

well, I don't like her voice, so she's out for me, haha. Actually maybe Buble is not jazz, I'm not gonna defend him, I don't care, I don't mind him, but that's about it.

Honestly, if I listen to jazz, 99% of time it would be instrumental music, that's what I like about it. If I want singers, I put a blues, or a rocknroll record, thats where I get my kicks from. I like my jazz instrumental, thats da truth.