The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #601

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    I think all it takes is a quick look at what IS currently popular.

    Today's pop music is literally the anti-jazz.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #602

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    25 web pages and counting. Seems popular to me.

  4. #603

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Kingstone
    25 web pages and counting. Seems popular to me.
    A very esoteric crowd, AK!
    Marinero

  5. #604

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWMandy
    […] I remember my surprise in learning that all the classic jazz songs were originally hits with lyrics... and that the version with singers tended to be much more popular, and shorter. Pop music has always struggled in moving past the 2:30 min mark. Exceptions are manifest, but remain exceptions. Like movies where "the long slow pan" became a fad... sometimes you just want to go up tempo and get it over with. Artistry and taste put vituosity into a context where they can get their play, appreciation, etc.
    Those 2:30 min come from the technical limitation of 78 rpm shellac discs. The 3:50 min of later hits that come from the technical limitations of 45 rpm vinyl singles. The limitations of the latter lead to an art form in itself songwriting- and arrangement-wise. But those GASB tunes had to be shortened for shellac. Leave out the verse, one instrumental chorus, a key change most of the time, one vocal chorus.

  6. #605

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    I've read that the bop guys played the standards but, when they recorded, made up their own heads to avoid paying royalties and get some of their own.

    I've also read that they played fast to reduce the number of guys who wanted to sit in. That is, they made the same old tunes harder to play by playing them very fast. Also, I read that the insiders would decide to play the bridge from a different tune to confuse the weaker players. My guess is that if you handle those curve balls you got to be an insider.

    Eventually, of course, this evolved into its own art form. And, it didn't take very long.

  7. #606

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    Those 2:30 min come from the technical limitation of 78 rpm shellac discs. The 3:50 min of later hits that come from the technical limitations of 45 rpm vinyl singles. The limitations of the latter lead to an art form in itself songwriting- and arrangement-wise. But those GASB tunes had to be shortened for shellac. Leave out the verse, one instrumental chorus, a key change most of the time, one vocal chorus.
    and the it was such a rapid form to spread the music around in, the broadcast format became 3 singles and and an ad or two, in 15min chunks. Radio stations got their add revenue, and you fit into their time limiting format. Ever wondered why they never play the full length version of “Shine on you crazy diamond?”on radio? You conformed or missed out or became consigned to the classical stations happy to play 30 minute concertos but surviving on grants in order to pull it off.

  8. #607

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    825K views


  9. #608

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    I bailed at 'vasectomy'.

  10. #609

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    Jazz belong to the soul and your core heart... it's not made for everyone. You realize at the end of the day that not everyone has a great taste.

  11. #610

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    Most jazz artists are not photogenic enough to be sold to the music consuming public, in large quantities.

    The people who buy jazz are.... the people who buy jazz. A limited audience. To go over that line a bit - into wider public acceptance is a combination of several factors:

    1. Savvy marketing,
    2. an easily swallow-able product for the mythical average person. (i.e. Ornette was never going to sell a lot of Lp's)
    3. Good look
    s, good hair, good smile, good extrovert personality,
    4.
    sex appeal
    5. dumb luck / good timing.....

    As you know quality or integrity has little to do with anything in America. Especially the music biz.


    * I think my above
    statement applies pretty well to conditions as they exist in 2022.
    Last edited by ChazFromCali; 11-09-2022 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #611

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChazFromCali
    Most jazz artists are not photogenic enough to be sold to the music consuming public, in large quantities.

    The people who buy jazz are.... the people who buy jazz. A limited audience. To go over that line a bit - into wider public acceptance is a combination several factors:

    1. Savvy marketing,
    2. an easily swallow-able product for the mythical average person. (i.e. Ornette was never going to sell a lot of Lp's)
    3. Good look
    s, good hair, good smile, good extrovert personality,
    4.
    sex appeal
    5. dumb luck / good timing.....

    As you know "quality' or integrity has little to do with anything in America. Especially the music biz.
    = Diana Krall

  13. #612

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    = Diana Krall
    see the first word of my post.

  14. #613

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    Why Isn't Jazz Popular?

    Why should it be?

  15. #614

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChazFromCali
    see the first word of my post.
    Wasn't correcting you, just stating the obvious.

  16. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    Wasn't correcting you, just stating the obvious.
    I thought about mentioning her as an exception.

  17. #616

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    I've re-thought it.

    I think the fundamental reason it isn't more popular is that it only makes a relatively small percentage of people feel good listening to it.

    Sure, there are those that do. And there are more, apparently, who don't.

    When it all had a swing beat and was danceable it was more popular. Then it became less visceral (to most, not all) and thence less popular. This may not apply to the very top players.

    I recall an argument about whether country music or jazz had more emotional content. I'd say that country has more immediate emotional content for a larger number of people. The lyrics help.

  18. #617

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    That well-known critic, Quora Contributor, says jazz was replaced by hip-hop:

    By the time hip-hop arrives, jazz is fatally old: It’s something one’s parents listened to. And now there is a new means by which youth can indicate that they are different from their mothers and fathers and white culture in general, a controversial genre that provides them with some of the racial and class exoticism many seem to seek. Moreover, it has lyrics, and lyrics are always preferable to instrumental music for the masses for perfectly sensible reasons (they understand words, know how to form and use them; they do not have this facility with saxophones or pianos).

    I am sticking with respectability as a cause: as soon as jazz was taught in music schools and performed in arts centres, it could no longer be a popular music form. Jazz at the Philharmonic was the beginning of the end.

  19. #618

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    By the time hip-hop arrives, jazz is fatally old: It’s something one’s parents listened to. .

    What they mean is that young people weren't the least bit interested in those boring old songs by Frank Sinatra and Julie London. It puts them to sleep. They want the latest groovy sounds and it ain't what their parents call jazz.

    These days, that's changed. 'Jazz' now encompasses far more than outdated easy listening and has done for some time. There are plenty of young people who love it and want to play it. And do play it.

  20. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    That well-known critic, Quora Contributor, says jazz was replaced by hip-hop:

    By the time hip-hop arrives, jazz is fatally old: It’s something one’s parents listened to. And now there is a new means by which youth can indicate that they are different from their mothers and fathers and white culture in general, a controversial genre that provides them with some of the racial and class exoticism many seem to seek. Moreover, it has lyrics, and lyrics are always preferable to instrumental music for the masses for perfectly sensible reasons (they understand words, know how to form and use them; they do not have this facility with saxophones or pianos).

    I am sticking with respectability as a cause: as soon as jazz was taught in music schools and performed in arts centres, it could no longer be a popular music form. Jazz at the Philharmonic was the beginning of the end.
    I believe there's a mandatory first year module on Hip-Hop in the Oxford University music course.

  21. #620

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    Quote Originally Posted by James W
    I believe there's a mandatory first year module on Hip-Hop in the Oxford University music course.
    Global hip hop is one of the courses available in the first year. Students must take six courses; hip hop is one of the options.

  22. #621

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    = Diana Krall
    = Nora Jones
    = Harry Connick jr
    = Jamiroquai
    = Michael Buble
    = Madeleine Peyroux

    yeah not all strictly old school Jazz or swing and even less bebob. All though heavily influenced with progressions sounds and voicings associated with jazz. No argument about the album sales though. Even when some only had a few key songs.

    I don’t think that just because a form of music heads into learning institutions it dies- Classical music is still very popular centuries after the music was composed. What you may see is the popularity of music styles plateaus and to what level may be a mix of cultural and geographical.

  23. #622

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    What they mean is that young people weren't the least bit interested in those boring old songs by Frank Sinatra and Julie London. It puts them to sleep. They want the latest groovy sounds and it ain't what their parents call jazz.

    These days, that's changed. 'Jazz' now encompasses far more than outdated easy listening and has done for some time. There are plenty of young people who love it and want to play it. And do play it.

    Frank and Julie were not in the running by the time hip hop appeared: jazz had lost most of its young audience twenty years earlier, when r'n'b gave them danceable songs. It was disco that was replaced by hip hop.

    Some young people play jazz, mostly jazz students. Jazz has not had a mass audience since the fifties, and that is not surprising: young people do not cling to the musical tastes of their parents, or even their older siblings. They move on, and find their own music.

  24. #623

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    That well-known critic, Quora Contributor, says jazz was replaced by hip-hop:

    By the time hip-hop arrives, jazz is fatally old: It’s something one’s parents listened to. And now there is a new means by which youth can indicate that they are different from their mothers and fathers and white culture in general, a controversial genre that provides them with some of the racial and class exoticism many seem to seek. Moreover, it has lyrics, and lyrics are always preferable to instrumental music for the masses for perfectly sensible reasons (they understand words, know how to form and use them; they do not have this facility with saxophones or pianos).

    I am sticking with respectability as a cause: as soon as jazz was taught in music schools and performed in arts centres, it could no longer be a popular music form. Jazz at the Philharmonic was the beginning of the end.

    It goes back farther than that. As I mentioned before - when jazz was dance music (swing) it was Pop music. After Bebop came in it ceased to be dance music and was no longer Pop music. It became intellectual.
    Last edited by ChazFromCali; 11-11-2022 at 08:58 PM.

  25. #624

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    All true but I couldn’t care less. Jazz fans are snobs. They don’t want it to be popular. If it’s popular it’ll get cheesy. Popularity cheapens. Sure I’d like to make a living at it but I’m no kid. I have zero desire to appeal to the hip hop crowd or other super popular styles. Jazz is art. Art is never popular. And when it becomes popular it becomes “pop art” and goes stupid. And jazz fans will turn on you quicker than you can spit. Kenny G. Even Herbie and Benson had their big time detractors when they were most popular. It took real courage to do what they did.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  26. #625

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    There's truth in what Henry says.