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I am trying to become a really good player. I really just love playing guitar and I have time on my hands to do it. In the past I have tried to practice for 8 hours a day but I could only keep it up for 10 weeks. I found what stopped me was not knowing how to structure the practice. I didn't know what to practice.
ATM I am just playing about 4 hours a day. But I still have the problem of not know how to structure my routine. I just play the chord-melody piece "Georgia On My Mind" by Django Reinhardt over and over while I learn it.
If you are one of those people who practice all day, what do you do with the time? How should I go about managing it and what things should I be working on?
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06-09-2009 11:52 PM
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If you are going to put that much time into practice, you need to be sure that the elements you work on are going to optimize your growth as a muscian. Inappropriate, or wrong practice can be counter productive. I would be wary of advice from individuals who don't know you and who are not aware of your musical knowledge, playing skills and goals.
Try to find an experienced, skilled instructor to help you identify areas that you need to work in, and a practice routine that 'best' addresses those areas.
I have a good friend and teacher who helps me keep my musical direction, I don't take lessons from him, but I get together with him regularly to insure that I am on track and that the work I am doing is correctly focused.
In general:
I spend about 2 hours each morning working on technique. This includes running scales, arpeggios, chord forms, etc.
I spend 2 to 3 hours working on perfromance material - this is mostly repetoire to be played with my band, and material that I no longer perform, but that I want to keep current and fluid.
The last part of the day, I work on new material and address issues that arise out of my playing that day. I often create excercises based on problem areas I have identified during practice. I then transfer them to the technique practice in the mornings.
Throughout the day, I take time to go over theory and general musical knowledge as it seems relevant.
Hope this helps a little,
Bill
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How do you structure each hour of practice? Do you do 10 minutes of one thing then 10 on another? How long is each session you practice for? I have heard you should take a 10 minute break after every hour to avoid RSI. At the moment I am spending all the time just learning new material as I don't have much of a repertoire yet. As for teachers, I don't believe in them. I haven't found one that has been able to guide me. One I went to insisted on teaching me the leavitt "modern method" books but refused outright to teach me any music. I went to him for 3 years and never learnt a single tune. Most of the others couldn't even read music. One of them knew what he was doing but he was so unprofessional in his attitudes I stopped going. A few of them were great players but seemed to think taking my money was their right and just didn't want to put any effort into teaching. And I can't afford one anyway.
Originally Posted by Bill_J
In the US it seems teaching is considered an honourable profession. Here in Australia it's very much "those that can do and the rest teach" so there aren't many good ones.
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Take a look at the Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute. The cost is very low, $60 a quarter, or about $20 a month. I am a retired University Professor and it is the most intelligent, complete, and logical system of teaching music that I have seen. Once you submit your first video, you are getting personalized instruction from Jimmy. He feels strongly about putting in appropriate pratice time and I am sure that he would help you put together a proper practice routine.
I am a member and it serves as the basis for the work that I am currently doing.
Here is the link for it: Jimmy Bruno Jazz Guitar
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"As for teachers, I don't believe in them. I haven't found one that has been able to guide me. One I went to insisted on teaching me the leavitt "modern method" books but refused outright to teach me any music. I went to him for 3 years and never learnt a single tune. Most of the others couldn't even read music. One of them knew what he was doing but he was so unprofessional in his attitudes I stopped going. A few of them were great players but seemed to think taking my money was their right and just didn't want to put any effort into teaching. And I can't afford one anyway."
Oh, do I know THAT feeling well.
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I think that you cannot say "I'm going for 8 hours a day" like a goal itself. I mean, you've got to have your hours according to your study material and not the opposite. Want to learn more? Start with a method, jam or whatever. If in those 4 hours you're only playing GOMM one time and another, boring is a natural consequence.
Remember, the discipline is to achieve musical goals, not an achievement itself.
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songs, in all keys, start to finish, with a metronome or BIAB/some other time keeping device. If i had eight hours a day to practice, that's what I'd do.
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I can also vouch for Jimmy's online instruction. I only started a few months ago, but I have to say, his fingerings alone are worth the first 3 months' tuition IMHO. They fit very nicely in with what I already know. Originally Posted by Bill_J
Jimmy's a straight-up guy, and is encouraging on his video responses to your submissions, but he most certainly won't let you get away with anything that you're doing wrong (or not doing, for that matter). One of his aims is to have you playing music from the first day - not just doing mindless exercises for no reason.
The progression of material seems very well thought out.
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I think you should be careful about overload.
There's an optimal amount of time that can be spent on each element of your practice each day and an optimal amount of total practice time each day. Totally blowing past those optimal time won't accomplish much (kind of like swallowing a bottle of vitamin C pills; your body will take the 100mg it wants for the day and will spit the rest out immediately).
Why don't you start slower. Find 2 elements that you want to work on and do them for a half hour each day. Then add learning a tune, that you want to work on for a half hour each day. And slowly build up your own regime that way. If you're serious, I don't think you'll have trouble finding things to fill up 8 hours in one hour or half hour chunks, but I would build it up slowly and not just go to 8 hours practicing right at the start.
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why, tell me why you want to "practise"??
Sing!
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The real problem, I always find, is that there is too much to practice and too little time.
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I think it's extremely important to work towards goals. Decide on something in your playing that you want to improve, and make a list of things that will help you get there. Do the same thing with songs you want to learn. For example, focus on learning just the melody for a few days, then just the chords, then write out a chord-melody and finally learn to use various improvisational techniques over the changes.
I'm not suggesting that you focus on one topic ALL day, but just set aside time to work on each one. With so much time to practice you could work on several goals at once.
I assume you have some jazz books, so sit down and write yourself a syllabus of things to learn, cross-referencing where topics are located in the books to help you find them easily. Then just plod through that syllabus.
But don't forget the main 'goal' is to play songs. So play them, daily!
FYI, I only get 20-30 min to practice a day, and sometimes not even that. I have a long list of things to cover and I am working through them slowly. I am improving, but very slowly. This is not a technique for a music-college student or an aspiring pro! However I expect things will change once my youngest child starts nursery.
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so theviking, have you decide on how and what to practice on?
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You play the same piece over and over for four hours a day? Originally Posted by TheViking
Have you mastered it yet?
What were you planning on doing with it once you had?
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I usually practise songs about 4-5 hrs per day. I use BIAB with just bass and drums when my keyboard player is not available. I try to play 4 or five choruses of each tune starting with accompaniment, then the straight melody, then variation based on the melody, then playing on the changes and a chord melody if I can. I almost always return to the melody for the last chorus. If I am trying to learn a new tune, I slow it down untill I have the melody memorized. After practise, I spend some time composing (trying to learn) and occasionally read through some part of my favorite book, The jazz theory book by Mark Levine. I also spend an hour or two listening to some of my favorite jazz masters, Bill Evans, Stan getz, Sonny Stitt, Sonny Rollins, Paul Desmond, Jimmy Raney, Ed Bickert, Jim Hall etc...... This is pretty full day of my favorite things to do.
wiz
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A couple guys here, Bill J and wizard3739, appear to be full time players, practicing daily, all day. If so, can you talk about your guitar playing "work"..... I've always dreamt of being a full timer musician but sadly had to take another path. All that practice....what do you apply it to?
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I am a retired University Prof. I always loved guitar, but was never able to devote the time to learning that I would have liked. When I retired, I decided to devote all of my time to music and to the guitar. I work on music full time now, but I am not making a living at it, nor am I particularly good.
Becuase my background is in 'instructional design', I am interested in 'how I learn', as much as I am interested in 'what I learn'. That is the reason that I recommend the Jimmy Bruno site for an individual still trying to structure their learning process. Jimmy's instructional system is well thought out, adaptable, and expansive.
When you suddenly decide to devote all of your time to music, you are faced with the question posed in this discussion, "How do I make good use of that time?" I was very jealous of wasting my time and energy, and, for me, the JBGI was a God send.
Good luck with your music,
Bill
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I have a full time job, 4 kids, wife, etc. I am taking next week off, and here's what I plan on doing daily.
30 minutes of warm up/stretching/dexterity/strengthening exercises from Jody Fisher's 30 Day Guitar Workout. Been using it for years.
30 minutes of reading. I am working thru David Oakes' book on sight reading. Will go in 10 minute blocks with brief breaks in between.
2 hours new lines work. I am trying to get my chops up to speed for Jazz Camp next month. Comping and CM is my strong suit, single lines are not. I am working on adding more to my bag.
2 hours improvisational work. This will be split between "front porch" playing, playing along to my looper, and with BIAB. Front porch playing is taking a tune, and using the melody as a call and response. I play a phrase of the melody, then improvise a response.
Same with reharmonizing the tune. Play different chords/subs as I go while keeping the tune going. As Mr. B said, taking these tunes and running them around the key circle.
1 hour of rep practice. This is keeping the 30+ CM tunes I have fresh. So, my plan is to practice 6 hours per day next week. Between that and the honey do list, I should have a full week. Hope that helps.
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Like Bill J I am a retired (Electronic Engineer). I waited many years to be able to be a full-time musician and fortunately, I do not need to make a lot of money with my music. I do play jazz regularly (averaging once or twice a week) in and around the small towns in central Arizona. My wife (good vocalist) and I are leading a small group of musicians who offer anything from a duo to a sextet. I do all of the arrangements and when the job requires a duo, it is just my wife and I doing old standards using BIAB for the bass and drums. Most of our work revolves around our trio which includes a keyboard player who I am teaching comping and chord voicing. We have only been doing this for about two years but we enjoy every minute we spend performing the old standards. The biggest part of our audiences are made up of retired people who grew up listening to the old standards as their "top 40" or "hit parade" music. We do a lot of benefit performances for the local hospital and the senior care centers in Payson because we enjoy giving something back for having a good senior life with our music. I feel my wife has a God-given talent and I have a God-given persistence to accomplishing what I set out to do. Between the two of us, we have a lot of fun on our musical path to enjoy our senior years.
wiz
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This is a great idea...I'm having a ton of fun with this. It really keeps you connected to the tune and lets the solo (and brain) breath. Originally Posted by derek
Have you tried playing an improv phrase first and responding with the melody? Flipping back and forth creates new variations and longer improvised lines with the same sense of connection.
Thanks for the tip.
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These days I am splitting my time (6 hours total), more or less, as follows:
Two hours just plain ear-training (mostly without guitar, but also call-and-response dictation, and playing simple songs by ear). I often get frustrated with something like ear-training and go on to do even three or hours or more, which cuts into everything else. But, I am now firmly convinced, it is THE WHOLE BUSINESS OF MUSIC. Period.
I then do about 1 hour of technical stuff: arpeggios, tricky exercises from various books, or just complicated lines that I repeat over and over again.
For about 2 hours, I play tunes and just improvise (trying to apply everything) over backing tracks. In this part is also included learning new tunes, mastering certain tunes to some extent, etc..
When I have an hour left, I work on vocabulary: memorizing new lines in all keys, inventing my own lines for a specific progression or whatever.
I don't know if this program is any good, but there it is.Last edited by franco6719; 06-12-2009 at 04:28 AM.
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Hi Franco, I know all about this. Why hurry? Don't forget to take a good rest and do something else instead. Enjoy yourself. Go to the park and you'll see nice people passing by. Once your head is full with the 'music-stuff' it can't take anymore. So if I can give you a good advise, this spiritual thing called music is going like a turtle. And they live for more the a hundred years.
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No, I agree. I'm not saying you have to do exactly X number of hours and X number of this or you will be a piece of shit or something like that. You have to do other things in life and sometimes even stay away from the instrument for a few days. I was just giving a general outline of a routine that I have been following. Sometimes I do less, sometimes I just do an hour of noodling and spend other time reading or whatever.
I understand your point.
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it is always good to be reminded though. Thanks for that slap out of fanaticism there.
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2 hours of pure ear-training is probably too much. You will have to watch out for ear fatigue. It usually sets in after 10 to 15 minutes. It is only subtle but when you find you have to think a lot and listen over again to make up your mind you have probably already overdone it.
As for the question about my playing and how it's coming along I have this to say: I am coming along in leaps and bounds. However, because chord-melody is the most intricate thing you can do on the guitar I am spending plenty of time going over and over it gradually practising out all the mistakes. So each time I make a mistake I practice that bar until it is automatic and then I practice it with the lead-in to that bar as well. So I may only learn 3 to 6 bars a of new material a day but I am constantly refining the bars I can already play from memory. Another big part of my playing is cultivating a touch. I play a bar or two and try to emphasize different parts each time to get a feel for the best balance between them. I think that is a big part of chord-melody playing, knowing which notes to emphasize where and when and how much.
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