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I'm sayin' Oscar Peterson....
What say you?
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09-05-2014 12:45 AM
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Could be, from a point of view. I love his playing. But I've always found it interesting that the "serious" modern jazz musician, and by that I mean anyone bop and beyond, doesn't take Oscar seriously. He's not considered a "serious" jazz musician. Tatum gets respect as does Phineas Newbord Jr. But I think because Oscar never played with or hung with Miles, Mingus, Coltrane, Bird, Herbie, Hubbard, he's just not part of them. On the other side OP never needed any of them. He had his own trio shtick going on. But you can't even imagine him playing with Miles and Cannonball/Trane.
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Monk & Keith Jarrett for me.
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Phineas Newborn, right? haven't heard that name in years, maybe decades.
Originally Posted by henryrobinett
otherwise....... i can imagine OP playing with Miles & Cannonball. not so much with Trane.
peace out.
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Bill Evans
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I don't know about the best but my favourites are Art Tatum, Kieth Jarrett, Oscar Peterson and chick Corea.
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I wish instead of asking "who's the greatest?", people would just ask "Who's your favourite?"...
Anyway, there's too many favourites, Tatum, Oscar, Bud Powell, Monk, Horace Silver, Bill Evans, Cedar Walton, Kenny Drew, Sonny Clark, Herbie, Chick, Jarret, Mehldau....
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I've been really enjoying Kenny Kirkland lately.
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+1 Originally Posted by ah.clem
of the current players, I especially enjoy the work of Aaron Parks and David Kikoski
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Favorites... all time, Bill Evans, Jaki Byard....current....Danny Grissett...
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I think Oscar is great. So does fellow Forum member Mark Stefani, who sent me this clip of OP last night. It's an appearance on the Dick Cavett show, during which the host asks Oscar to demonstrate stylistic traits of other pianists, which Oscar does. Cavett also asks Oscar to sing something, which Oscar reluctantly does. I was amazed at who he sounds like when he sings!
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I love Oscar Peterson. Always have. He was one of my first influences. Still once a year I overdose on OP for a few days or listen to his Yours Is My Heart Alone and am slayed. But of my fellow musicians and associates I'm one of the few. Sadly.
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What, no Tommy Flanagan or Wynton Kelly? They were both excellent pianists, and DON'T forget their work with Wes Montgomery! I mean, c'mon - "The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery? And "Smokin' at the Half Note?" Darn near perfect accompanists, and "transcendent" in being able to cross narrow style boundaries.
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A pianist once told me that many pianists were jealous of Oscar's brilliant technique and started saying he was 'all flash,' 'not serious' and the like. Shame. Guy was a brilliant player. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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Bill Evans is my favorite forever.
wiz
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This was a theory of a great pianist friend of mine. He said OP's technique was just off the charts. Not even competitive. Kind of like I considered Stanley Jordon. I could never compare him to other guitar players because he rewrite the book on how it was played. Plus I'm not really a fan. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
The great pianist Benny Green, who I played with a couple of times, told me he went to OPs home and sat in his music room. He (Benny) watched a video alone of OP and Herbie playing together. His impression was OP was so much better than everyone it made everyone else sound like children. Now others I told this to poo-pooed it as being like Benny Green to say that.
I don't think there is ever a better or best in the world, so I'm just passing on someone's observations.
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Henry, do you think one reason that OP may get less than his due is that he wasn't a heavyweight composer? In a sense, that shouldn't matter---playing is playing and composing is composing and it is great to be great at both but is also great to be great at either one. Oscar was certainly a great player. No one ever questions that. But he is given the "just a great player" treatment, like being THAT good is,well, nice and all, but not Serious enough somehow to be considered great... Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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No. I think it's because he was insulated. He didn't need anyone but his own close knit group of people. But mainly I think it's that his arrangements are considered too ornate and corny sometimes. He's too showbiz for a lot of these guys. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Plus his ego was pretty large. He would have been terrible comping behind Miles, Rollins or those guys. He takes up too much room. It's gotta be the OP show. There are some old sides of him playing behind Billie Holiday. Some of his playing makes me cringe. He plays all over her as if she is accompanying him. Not all of it and maybe it was just my impression at the time.
There's a story about how OP and his entourage went to a club Bud Powell was playing in Paris. He was very DISrespectful and made loud jokes about Bud and his playing. Then he asked if he could sit in and played as if to show everyone who the real pianist was. Then he left. I want to say without a word but I don't know that.
Maybe things like that are why.Last edited by henryrobinett; 09-05-2014 at 07:58 PM. Reason: correction
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Not quite accurate - Oscar recorded with Bird on the Verve sessions in 1952. And he definitely played with Coltrane at least once: Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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OP definitely played with Bird and a bunch of guys in his early days at JATP. That's the same time he recorded with Billie. I didn't know he played with Trane, or the other way around. When was that? I can't play the video presently.
Later George Wein, same guy who did JATP concerts and Newport, loved OP and had him record with a bunch of guys like Dizzy and Eldridge.Last edited by henryrobinett; 09-05-2014 at 07:55 PM. Reason: typos
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Oscar did a great record with his Canadian crew called The Personal Touch, where he sings on quite a few tunes. Check it out. I really like his voice. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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This was incredible. Thanks so much for posting. Originally Posted by grahambop
Coltrane is just a force of nature. I don't know exactly what it is about his sound, but once he stops playing it feels like everything just drops into a completely different song. And I LOVE Stan Getz. But still...Coltrane. Holy crap.
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And then there's McCoy Tyner... he certainly gets around a piano...
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The other thing about OP that might've made him not quite attractive to the new up and coming jazzsters is he made everything he played bluesy. This can be cool and he certainly swung like nobody else in the world. But the new hip guys were McCoy, Herbie and later Chick and Jarrett. Monk might not have had the chops but he was hip. OP just wasn't hip. That was his only crime. But as far as I'm concerned swinging like he did is the hippest anyone can aspire to.
He had a basic thing: swing in 4/4. Even when he did songs in 3/4 or 6/8 nine times out of ten he'd switch to 4/4 and swing it for his solo or sometimes ensemble parts. So it made him maybe not as adventurous or seemingly willing to go in new directions, which is what the scene was all about in the 60s. Modes and quartal harmony. OP did none of that, for the most part. He did his thing.
The OTHER thing; his most dreadful crime - he was FABULOUSLY SUCCESSFUL. This is a crime in the jazz world. A friend and pianist attended Berklee in the 70s. OP came to the school and did a concert. He said he never experienced anything like it. It was like the Beatles. People were standing up screaming. Which shows how good he was. All the musicians knew. It just wasn't very COOL.
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Was never really a fan of McCoy Tyner. Often times, his left hand bored me to death.
I think Henry pretty much nailed it in his post referencing OP's affinity to remain within his click of a few musicians . . as well as his ego and attitude. I remember reading that he and Joe Pass almost came to blows for the same reasons Henry stated about playing over Lady Day. He really did take up a great deal of room, as Henry stated. He'd get away with that with players like Lorne Lofsky and Herb Ellis. But, Pass would have none of it. Pass' ego was just as inflated as OP's. They both knew full well they were head and shoulders above most of their peers.
But, still . . . OP reigns supreme, as my favorite jazz pianist.
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