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  1. #1

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    Hey,

    I'm curious, what's your opinion on musical technical proficienty when it comes to drumming, jazz drummers or metal drummers? Like who can do more difficult parts. In jazz it seems to come to changing tempos and sometimes odd time signatures. In metal I'm thinking stuff like blast beats and double bass on the bass drum.
    Last edited by Jazzman35; 08-23-2014 at 03:37 AM.

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  3. #2

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    IMHO that can be a very subjective question.
    My opinion on it : blast beat and fast double bass in themselves require a lot of coordination and endurance (mostly before the advent of triggers when extreme metal drummer really needed to suffer and play hard), but it is not something I would consider highly skilled in the musical sense. A guy who can play odd time signature, poly rhythmical stuff like latin music beats require more intrinsic musical talent. In the 70s with Billy Cobham or Dennis Chambers since the late 80s power drumming came to jazz/fusion and with it the use of double bass drums.
    Metal drumming refined itself a lot since the early 90s with bands like Meshuggah drawning a lot from Jazz and progressive rock and many of the technical metal gods have progressive rock and fusion/jazz influences...
    Last edited by vinlander; 08-24-2014 at 08:41 AM.
    ...every note has an origin and a destination...
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  4. #3

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    Music is an Art not a Sport. Metal musicians are all into the sport of how fast this or how difficult is it to play <fill in the blank) riff or pattern and that isn't musical. My last day gig my boss was Metal head (in all so many ways) and he knew I was getting back into playing so always wanted to talk music with me. I got so tired of every time a musician's name came up his first questions was "how many beats per minute can they play". I made the mistake of mentioning I was looking for Jazz guitar teacher, he was constantly recommending these "really fast" metal guitarist that teach. I say I want to study Jazz, he say they are so fast they can teach anything. I was so happy when they let the guy go, his approach to IT was as narrow minded as his musical taste.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  5. #4

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    I agree it is subjective because generally speaking metal drumming is often associated with speed/endurance whereas jazz drumming is mostly technical.

    That said, I've always felt that the best metal drummers are those who bring jazz technique into what they do regularly. I'm not sure what he did with other bands but when Richard Christy was with Death I absolutely loved him because along with killer double bass skills he was constantly playing multi/poly-rhythms clearly born of a jazz background over top of that

  6. #5

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    Jazz drumming is mostly listening, technique is a given, but many great jazz drummers were not known for technique, like Paul Motian, but for listening and creating a conversation within the group interaction. There are some really good metal drummers as far as technique goes, but they generally don't really listen and react as jazz drummers do, but there's a different aesthetic. The closest I can think of to a real jazz/metal combination drummer back int he day was Mitch Mitchell with Hendrix, and today, Vinnie Coliuta with Jeff Beck is pretty amazing, although he's not really metal, more fusion, i guess. Generally, jazz drummers aren't measured by technique as much as metal drummers are.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    Jazz drumming is mostly listening, technique is a given, but many great jazz drummers were not known for technique, like Paul Motian, but for listening and creating a conversation within the group interaction. There are some really good metal drummers as far as technique goes, but they generally don't really listen and react as jazz drummers do, but there's a different aesthetic. The closest I can think of to a real jazz/metal combination drummer back int he day was Mitch Mitchell with Hendrix, and today, Vinnie Coliuta with Jeff Beck is pretty amazing, although he's not really metal, more fusion, i guess. Generally, jazz drummers aren't measured by technique as much as metal drummers are.
    Metal drummers tend to be like drum machines lots of notes, but no feel. Jazz drummer are very rhythmic and the great ones known for their polyrhythmic playing like Elvin Jones. Today is a trend for more musical Jazz drummers like Ari Hoenig and Brian Blade. Jazz drummers all about interaction with the others in the group.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  8. #7

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    i know nothing of metal drummers. who are three tip-top examples?

  9. #8

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    I'm guessing good metal drummers are better at metal and good Jazz drummers are better at Jazz. Most styles and instruments are like that, no surprise.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    Music is an Art not a Sport. Metal musicians are all into the sport of how fast this or how difficult is it to play <fill in the blank) riff or pattern and that isn't musical. My last day gig my boss was Metal head (in all so many ways) and he knew I was getting back into playing so always wanted to talk music with me. I got so tired of every time a musician's name came up his first questions was "how many beats per minute can they play". I made the mistake of mentioning I was looking for Jazz guitar teacher, he was constantly recommending these "really fast" metal guitarist that teach. I say I want to study Jazz, he say they are so fast they can teach anything. I was so happy when they let the guy go, his approach to IT was as narrow minded as his musical taste.
    Good story I hope that it says more about your former boss and obsessive metal fans than metal musicians though, at least I suspect that it works like that even if my knowledge of the genre is fairly superficial.

    Jens
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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    i know nothing of metal drummers. who are three tip-top examples?
    Matt Halpern gets some pretty good press.

    Still working on it.