Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Posts 151 to 186 of 186
  1. #151

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    No! Keep it going! These high-minded discussions are a sure way to win new jazz fans....
    We are not here to gain any new jazz fans - rather it is high-pissing contest with chest pounding and territory marking.
    Jazz is doomed anyway - so we are merely dancing on it's grave and drinking moonshine in it's honour.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    Can we just shake hands instead? And leave "hug it out" part out.
    At least you and SuperFour00 (God, I wish I could buy one of those Gibson Super 4s!) both agree in that you both regard good Jazz as being art, and that it should be treated as such.

    Isn't that sufficient common ground to call a truce?

  4. #153

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Ellis View Post
    I just started this thread to vent about the fact that blues is taking over my part of the country and leaving all those of us who don't play it sitting at home. I personally can play blues (blooz as someone tagged it) as it doesn't take a lot of musical talent to play it as it is most often presented. In my area, every biker bar and tiki bar has a blues band of some sort, all playing the same 20 or so tunes. The bar owners open up their venues to 'open jam night' and get a lot of free music from folks who will and do play for free just to be able to play. I guess everybody has to start someplace but I started many years ago and I don't do it for free anymore. My major complaint against blues (especially electric blues) is that, to me, it seems that all the so called 'bluesmen' are just warmed over versions of B.B. King. It's been said that Mr. King could say more with 3 notes than the rest of these guys could with 100 notes and I tend to agree. The only blues I really listen to is Blind Blake, Mississippi John Hurt and Blind Lemon Jefferson - If I could play 1/4 of what Blind Blake could play, I'd be a happy camper. There's very few people who can play his stuff and play it right. I'm not even sure if they called it 'blues' back then as it was a mix of country, ragtime, minstrel and who knows what else.
    Its the same here! If theres a decent blues artist playing in town Ill go and check it out, Ive been let down by so called "world class" blues acts ,and other styles as well . I think it comes back to standards as I said before, if your standards and expectations are low, almost anything will please you. If you have a reasonably elevated set of standards, it makes it tough to see someone hacking away, butchering another guys tune! At that point you start to look around you and see the drunks and whatever having a grand old time and you realize, they have ZERO idea of what it takes to play real music of any kind. You need to remove yourself either from the venue, or reality at that point or you go sour! Fact is, theres an "ass for every seat" or "arse" for our English brothers on the forum. Theres plenty of low level bands playing low level clubs for a low level crowd, I mean low level in a musical way, not a social way as far as the crowd part goes. Another thing to think about is this, if every band, whatever style of music they play were a stellar band of musicians, what would we have to complain about??? We would be all dejected because we don't stack up to the level of talent playing everywhere! I say, "bring on the HACKS" they make me sound better, and isn't that what its all about? Why else would otherwise normal people spend countless hours honing and refining whatever it is they are smitten with to be anything other than better than the others??? OK, its time to have a few brews ,so to everyone out there who has ever worked a day in their lives ,Happy Labor "Labour" Day. Bob

  5. #154

    User Info Menu

    I think that it's wrong to assume that people who enjoy this kind of music at a bar do so because they have low or no standards. It may be that they enjoy it despite the fact that it's being played not very well. Maybe there is something about the music that thrills people and that something is not the technical prowess of the player. Maybe the music is just so gripping for a lot of people that it excites even when it is played poorly. Maybe people don't go to bars to see bands because they want to see great musicianship but something that they value even more.

    Just a thought.
    Still working on it.

  6. #155

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan View Post
    At least you and SuperFour00 (God, I wish I could buy one of those Gibson Super 4s!) both agree in that you both regard good Jazz as being art, and that it should be treated as such.

    Isn't that sufficient common ground to call a truce?
    I do not hate SuperFour00 - I only hate Kenny G (and everything he stands for).
    I do not mind making the truth but he needs to refrain from "smiley'ing".

  7. #156

    User Info Menu

    I used to be really hurt, when after playing a beautiful chord solo of 'Misty' or 'Georgia', some rube would approach and tell me that I oughta hear his uncle Fred's boy, Clem, play 'Wildwood Flower' if I really wanted to hear some fine guitar work. I was also almost fired from a band once upon a time for playing an 'off' chord - it was a 9th! No wonder I stay home and watch reruns of 'Green Acres'.

  8. #157

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinO View Post
    I think that it's wrong to assume that people who enjoy this kind of music at a bar do so because they have low or no standards. It may be that they enjoy it despite the fact that it's being played not very well. Maybe there is something about the music that thrills people and that something is not the technical prowess of the player. Maybe the music is just so gripping for a lot of people that it excites even when it is played poorly. Maybe people don't go to bars to see bands because they want to see great musicianship but something that they value even more.

    Just a thought.
    I agree! Everyone gets what they want out of it, whatever it is. By "standards" I meant ,the musicians here who have been posting their feelings. I have a number of friends who have zero musical knowledge "including my wife" who really don't have a clue what it takes to perform. My wife excepted from the last part of the last comment. I worked with a guy who had a hideous home life, just figure he had teenagers and everything that involves, and a wife with no morals. He would beg me to go out after work on Fri. . You guessed it, some joint where a blues band was carving up the best of SRV and Clapton! Hell, I get the whole let off steam thing and lets party. Somehow I don't think he would have wanted to go to the local Jazz club, such as it was at the time to let loose. It comes down to this, no one gives a shit what anyone thinks about anything ,Ill keep my thoughts to myself and you keep yours to yourself. Unless were hip enough to be able to try to understand the other cats point of view, without at least a PM to said poster so the negativity doesn't go public. Man, theres too much shit in the world to be petty in a music forum! The Op had his say , voiced his gripe, and rightly so. Hes got as much right as anyone, I took it as , hes feeling what I felt with the 10 year old kid thing. I felt for him and said my piece. That being said , I think Ill have another POP!

  9. #158

    User Info Menu

    Lol. I had a guy on youtube post on one of those videos of me playing with the Johnny Cash impersonator that "the guitar player sucks, he's not authentic."

    I'm playing Luther Perkins' parts NOTE. FOR. NOTE.

    In a weak moment, after a few beers I reamed him. I mean, really tore him a new one. He emailed me the next day.

    He said I wasn't talking about your playing, I was saying you don't look authentic with the long hair and beard.

    Never underestimate how dumb and shallow people can be. Go have fun. For every asshole, there's somebody who's day your making.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  10. #159

    User Info Menu

    Bingo!

  11. #160

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Lol. I had a guy on youtube post on one of those videos of me playing with the Johnny Cash impersonator that "the guitar player sucks, he's not authentic."

    I'm playing Luther Perkins' parts NOTE. FOR. NOTE.

    In a weak moment, after a few beers I reamed him. I mean, really tore him a new one. He emailed me the next day.

    He said I wasn't talking about your playing, I was saying you don't look authentic with the long hair and beard.

    Never underestimate how dumb and shallow people can be. Go have fun. For every asshole, there's somebody who's day your making.
    That reminds me of the comment Chet A. made , where he said he was at some party and he had grown a beard and was playing guitar and someone came up to him and said something to the effect of," youre pretty good but, youre no Chet Atkinns" LOL! Ok , Im having a few too many to be involved in anything public!

  12. #161

    User Info Menu

    Here's a good music for growing beard and otherwise.
    Peace y'all - I always enjoy good ole' headbuttin' round here
    (golovooshkee-udaryooshkee - as they say back home ;-) ).

  13. #162

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    I do not hate SuperFour00 - I only hate Kenny G (and everything he stands for).
    I do not mind making the truth but he needs to refrain from "smiley'ing".
    Are you in KGB?

    (Kenny G. Bashers)

  14. #163

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFour00 View Post
    Are you in KGB?

    (Kenny G. Bashers)
    No, comrade Super400 - comrade Kenny is working for us - as key part of Kennyist infiltration, Kennyist indoctrination, Kennyist subversion and the international Kennyist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of your precious bodily fluids.

  15. #164

    User Info Menu

    Guys, I'm telling you, Gorelick can bring it. He CAN play. He just gets paid a zillion dollars a gig not to. He knows his audience and what's expected.

    Sometimes you just don't know your audience. I used to be in a Hank Williams to Patsy Cline sort of country band. We were playing in a biker bar in which we had a regular gig. Good people, but tough crowd--if you know what I mean. Anyway, a fellow came up and put a twenty on the hi hat and says, "yours it you play an Irish Rovers tune." WTF? Not the crowd for Irish Rovers. The bassist, who I had played with for about 30 years, at that point, calls out "The Unicorn Song." (As if that were ever in our book) So, we play the unicorn song. Everybody cheers. Incredulously, I say into my mic, "So, what do you want, next, Peter, Paul and Mary?" I laughed, anyway. Guys stopped playing pool and one pool player yells, "I love Peter, Paul and Mary." Another guys hollers out, "Play Puff the Magic Dragon." Oops! I guess we misjudged our audience. We played "Jambalaya." [True story]

    (I swear I thought the folks were "friends in low places" people. Our band was a "There Stands The Glass" country band--real old country stuff. Instead, the good folks really wanted folk...go figure.)

  16. #165

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    Guys, I'm telling you, Gorelick can bring it. He CAN play. He just gets paid a zillion dollars a gig not to. He knows his audience and what's expected.
    That almost makes it WORSE. He is not an artist then. Just a human jukebox.

  17. #166

    User Info Menu

    Lol...people who take Kenny so seriously crack me up. You know who doesn't take Kenny G seriously? Kenny G.

    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  18. #167

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by woland View Post
    That almost makes it WORSE. He is not an artist then. Just a human jukebox.
    I don't see a problem with this except with the words you chosen to portray the situation. The implication is that anyone who doesn't play original music is a human jukebox, which is true. Congratulations, you just insulted the vast majority of musicians.

  19. #168

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob22315 View Post
    I don't see a problem with this except with the words you chosen to portray the situation. The implication is that anyone who doesn't play original music is a human jukebox, which is true. Congratulations, you just insulted the vast majority of musicians.
    No, that is not the implication. That is just your interpretation. So the argument is really between you and you and I should not interfere.

  20. #169

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Lol...people who take Kenny so seriously crack me up. You know who doesn't take Kenny G seriously? Kenny G.

    Looks like for quite a while the thread is about hating on Kenny and the cohort of his zombie minions.

  21. #170

    User Info Menu

    I doubt the old school jazz greats that most worship here look down on the blues the way a lot of amateur jazz snobs seem to. There may be less theory involved but playing the blues is far from simple and very few people do it well.

    Not aimed at the OP btw just the elitist snobbery sometimes found amongst amateur jazzers. I understand his frustration about the limited options he has in his area and mediocre is mediocre no matter what the genre.

  22. #171

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    I get tired of the blues. But then again I've rarely taken it seriously enough to really really learn it well. So that probably explains. I noodle around with blues. I blues jazz changes and play overdrive and do a kind of Robben Ford jazz style blues. But in terms of rally nailing rick blues or Chicago blues or delta blues? I suck. I should really learn it. Hendrix was my big source in the beginning. I need to go back to Muddy Waters, Elmore James. But it bores me.
    Henry, I appreciate your candor. I've never once heard anyone who puts down blues cats as being lesser musicians actually be able to play the blues themselves. It's always some rote comping with a few stock licks and bad vibrato to "prove" their point. Whenever I get into a blues phase, I realize just how much I need to work on!

    I think it's okay not to be into it though. No reason you have to play a style you're not into. I have a feeling your Robben Ford-ish blues playing is pretty good though!
    Last edited by Jazzpunk; 09-03-2014 at 05:12 PM.

  23. #172

    User Info Menu

    I have played Delta and country blues in a blues duo with one of the best slide guitarists/vocalists _anywhere_ for the past 25 years, apart from my other gigs/bands, etc. Playing the blues convincingly, correctly, with conviction and heart is a passion and a lifetime pursuit. It is nothing to sneer at. Like jazz, it is something to be conserved and cultivated. It is a true, American art form.

  24. #173

    User Info Menu

    I try to never criticize one for how they play if I can't do better, regardless of the genre. I may say I don't like a particular style of music, but to be very good in any genre takes much talent, and I am the first to admit that I have a day job for a reason. That said, the OP clearly has guitar skills that I don't, and therefore has earned more of a right to be critical of anyone than I have. As a rule, however, I still think that anyone who really puts in the effort, even if the ability doesn't follow (and it frequently doesn't), deserves my respect. Almost anyone is capable of becoming good at nearly anything they choose as long as they have the desire to put in the time and the effort. Two of the few areas that this does not hold true are sports and music, where either the underlying ability is there or it isn't.

  25. #174
    BTW I've always thought this thread title sounded like a blues tune....

  26. #175

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    BTW I've always thought this thread title sounded like a blues tune....
    Didn't Nat King Cole do something like "Nat King Cole Don't Rock n Roll"? As I remember, it was a humorous tune about how Nat is above selling out to the Rock'n'Roll fad.

  27. #176

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
    I doubt the old school jazz greats that most worship here look down on the blues the way a lot of amateur jazz snobs seem to. There may be less theory involved but playing the blues is far from simple and very few people do it well.

    Not aimed at the OP btw just the elitist snobbery sometimes found amongst amateur jazzers. I understand his frustration about the limited options he has in his area and mediocre is mediocre no matter what the genre.
    Nobody looks down on Blues. Most of the thread was about "blooz" - Blues Lite, Fat-Free-Sugar-Free Ersatz blues practiced by musicians that take few out element of the genre and create music that fits what WC Handy wrote and Satchmo was once singing about:

    Oh love oh love oh loveless love
    Has set our heart on goal-less goals
    From milkless milk and silkless silk
    We are growing used to soul-less souls

    Such grafting times we never saw
    That’s why we have a pure food law
    In everything we find a flaw
    Even love oh love oh loveless love

  28. #177

    User Info Menu

    Probably the greatest influence on my playing over the years has been Herb Ellis and he started out playing blues, if it was good enough for him it certainly is for me.

  29. #178

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    BTW I've always thought this thread title sounded like a blues tune....

    right...


  30. #179

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    BTW I've always thought this thread title sounded like a blues tune....
    I hadn't thought of that but now that you mention it, why didn't I? You're right. But I don't think it is the title of an actual blues song, so now you know what your mission is: write that tune and post it here! ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  31. #180

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by gcb View Post
    right...

    Clarence never wanted to be called "blues musician" - instead he would proudly proclaim "I play AMERICAN music".
    Great and sorely missed musician. When Katrina wiped out his house on Lake Ponchartrain (and all his instruments along with everything he owned) and he relocated to Austin I emailed his manager and offered to give him my Firebird to use as long as he needed. Also offered his old HB35 (I bought his old stage guitar from a dealer in Louisiana - talked to Gatemouth about it at some point and he confirmed it was indeed authentic). Unfortunately he died few days later - in a few days it will 9 years... time flies.

    Later I read that during a storm the small cemetery on LA/TX border was flooded and his coffin was unearthed and taken by the sea - never to be found again. Is this story true?
    Last edited by woland; 09-04-2014 at 10:59 AM.

  32. #181

    User Info Menu

    (In B.B.'s voice, ideally)

    I'VE BEGUN TO HATE THESE BLUES

    Oh, when I'm feeling low,
    Can't tell the night from day,
    Caught in life's undertow,
    The Blues will chase life's cares away.

    But I've played these Blues so long,
    Today's funk it just ain't news,
    Getting hard to know what's wrong,
    I don't know which Blues to choose.

    Play the Blues for when you're lonely,
    Play the Blues for when you're sad,
    Play the Blues for when you're dead-broke,
    Play the Blues for when your mad.

    Oh, I'll keep self-medicatin',
    Pick myself up from the shoes,
    But I be lyin' if not admittin'
    I've begun to hate these Blues.

    Copyright Greentone 2014

  33. #182

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Para View Post
    Probably the greatest influence on my playing over the years has been Herb Ellis and he started out playing blues, if it was good enough for him it certainly is for me.
    Hey, Herbie never stopped playing the blues! ;o) He put a little of the blues in all he did.

    I've posted this before but it's worth repeating:

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  34. #183

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    (In B.B.'s voice, ideally)

    I'VE BEGUN TO HATE THESE BLUES

    Copyright Greentone 2014
    Nice, but you know we won't know whether we like it until we hear the guitar solo... ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  35. #184

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Nice, but you know we won't know whether we like it until we hear the guitar solo... ;o)
    Plus it don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing (doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah, doo-ah) .

  36. #185

    User Info Menu

    B.B. will provide the call-and-response fills. No solo, per se. That's the way God planned it.

  37. #186

    User Info Menu

    I've Begun To Hate These Blues (continued)

    Chorus

    Oh, I've begun to hate these Blues.
    I have begun to hate these Blues.
    I play but Mr. Bad Luck I can't lose.
    So I've begun to hate these Blues.

    Verse

    So I went down to the courthouse
    To listen to the views
    Of important people that I'd seen
    On the television news.

    They said, "You've been playing Blues
    To try to take the pain away."
    We note that you've resorted
    To the Blues both night and day.

    But the Blues it isn't covered
    By Medicaire or Medicaid
    So you'll have to switch other means
    Of treatment to be paid.

    Chorus

    Oh, I've begun to hate these Blues.
    I have begun to hate these Blues.
    I play but Mr. Bad Luck I can't lose.
    So I've begun to hate these Blues.

    Copyright Greentone 2014