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  1. #1

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    Hi all

    I stumbled across this a while ago

    Jazz Foundation of America | Saving jazz & blues...one musician at a time.

    I was shocked to see that even famous jazz musiciand like Freddie Hubbard, Terry Clake and Fats Domino can end up nearly destitude!

    Very worth-while cause to support...

    Frank

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  3. #2

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    Such a foundation wouldn't be neccesary in Scandinavia since we have free health care and unemployment insurance. I don't wish to go all political on you, but as a musician it's nice to know that you can get help without going broke.

    Our taxes are also pretty high though (40-60%)

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    Such a foundation wouldn't be neccesary in Scandinavia since we have free health care and unemployment insurance. I don't wish to go all political on you, but as a musician it's nice to know that you can get help without going broke.

    Our taxes are also pretty high though (40-60%)
    So then, with tax rates at 40-60% . . health care and unimployment insurance isn't free at all, is it? Someone's definitely paying for it . . aren't they? So then, some one other than youself *as a musician* is funding your choice to be a musician. Someone other than yourself *as a musician* is carrying your load and providing your safety net. As a musician, you're not getting "help". You're getting a hand out at the expense of others. Of course you don't need such a cause as The Jazz Foundation in Scandinavia. You've got a confiscatory government taking the money from the haves . . and redistributing it to the have nots.

    "Free" health care . . . "free" unimployment insurance . . . . . . what a joke!!! It might be free to "some" in your country . . but, others are paying through their noses for those "some" to have it for free. There's not a damn thing anywhere in this world that's free, if it carries any type of a monitary value and or cost. Somewhere along the line . . it costs someone something and someone's paying for it.

    But, as you say . . I don't want to go all political on you either.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  5. #4

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    Truth is a beotch ain't it

  6. #5

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    I have a hard time imagining that the mentioned jazz legends haven't worked hard all their lives. Still they can't afford staying alive without going bankrupt.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    Such a foundation wouldn't be neccesary in Scandinavia since we have free health care and unemployment insurance. I don't wish to go all political on you, but as a musician it's nice to know that you can get help without going broke.

    Our taxes are also pretty high though (40-60%)
    Sounds nice, but it will be interesting to see what happens in Norway when the North Sea oil runs dry, perhaps they'll go back to selling fish, but then North Sea fish are running out too.
    “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #7

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    I agree. It does seem though that the money is better spent compared to Qatar that just build stadiums that will never be used after the world cup series in 2022

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden View Post
    Sounds nice, but it will be interesting to see what happens in Norway when the North Sea oil runs dry, perhaps they'll go back to selling fish, but then North Sea fish are running out too.
    When the oil runs out the fish may come back!....L..

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    I have a hard time imagining that the mentioned jazz legends haven't worked hard all their lives. Still they can't afford staying alive without going bankrupt.
    No one should have to be financially responsible for the career choices made by anyone other than themselves. If I choose to be a life long beach bum unwilling to seek gainful employment because it would interfere with my life long search for and pursuit of the perfect wave . . should the working society around me have to pay for my health care and unemployment funds?

    Jazz musicians know full well that the monitary compensation for their choice of profession almost always leads to substandards of living. Yet, they choose to pursue that anyway. Some even deprive their families of a better way of life . . just because they selfishly choose to be a jazz musician. I believe that everyone and anyone has the God given right to pursue what ever path in life they choose to. However, they do not have any right what so ever to expect to be supported financially along that chosen path.

    The Jazz Foundation of America is not a "jack" by the American government confiscating the earned money of some to pay for the choices made by others. It's a foundation allowing those of us who support the art of jazz and are willing to contribute to it financially a venue to do so. I was just recently made aware of this foundation. I will willingly contribute to it. However, if my government were to confiscate my earnings just to support it . . I would strongly object. The choice for others to fund someone's decisions to pursue their passions in life should be a volentary one . . . . not a mandate from their government.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  11. #10

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    Great stuff Patrick. For us to save the arts we have to support it with OUR money. It's not the government's job to do it. In fact, they can't if the people don't care about art. I try to support jazz and other art forms by making donations to those trying to keep the arts alive. That's how it should be done.
    Last edited by smokinguit; 08-02-2014 at 10:17 AM.
    "If I don't practice for a day, I know it... for two days, the critics know it... three days, the public knows it." -- Louis Armstrong

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2 View Post
    No one should have to be financially responsible for the career choices made by anyone other than themselves. If I choose to be a life long beach bum unwilling to seek gainful employment because it would interfere with my life long search for and pursuit of the perfect wave . . should the working society around me have to pay for my health care and unemployment funds?

    Jazz musicians know full well that the monitary compensation for their choice of profession almost always leads to substandards of living. Yet, they choose to pursue that anyway. Some even deprive their families of a better way of life . . just because they selfishly choose to be a jazz musician. I believe that everyone and anyone has the God given right to pursue what ever path in life they choose to. However, they do not have any right what so ever to expect to be supported financially along that chosen path.

    The Jazz Foundation of America is not a "jack" by the American government confiscating the earned money of some to pay for the choices made by others. It's a foundation allowing those of us who support the art of jazz and are willing to contribute to it financially a venue to do so. I was just recently made aware of this foundation. I will willingly contribute to it. However, if my government were to confiscate my earnings just to support it . . I would strongly object. The choice for others to fund someone's decisions to pursue their passions in life should be a volentary one . . . . not a mandate from their government.
    You seem to be confusing "Beach bums" with jazz musicians down on there luck. Most people living in welfare state countries pay insurance contributions, I've paid them all my life. Nobody here in the UK has to rely on charity to get by when they hit hard times through no fault of their own!...Even beach bums!!.....

  13. #12

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    This sort of subject apparently hits a nerve for lenghty contributions defending personal responsibility. I guess I agree that you have to pay for your own choices in life. I just find it problematic that so many wonderful occupations such as the humanities, art and music have such substandard working conditions compared to virtually any other busines.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit View Post
    For us to save the arts we have to support it with OUR money. It's not the government's job to do it. In fact, they can't if the people don't care about art. I try to support jazz and other art forms by making donations to those trying to keep the arts alive. That's how it should be done.
    You bet. Which means buy those CD's you stream on pandora or Spotify, go to concerts, and--and this is the one I'll get push back on--don't gig for free.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
    You seem to be confusing "Beach bums" with jazz musicians down on there luck. Most people living in welfare state countries pay insurance contributions, I've paid them all my life. Nobody here in the UK has to rely on charity to get by when they hit hard times through no fault of their own!...Even beach bums!!.....
    "Beach bums" and "welfare queens" are straw men frequently used to justify policies that punish the poor. Sure, a few of them exist, but so do trust fund babies, who did not earn their entitlements either. Obviously, it is immoral for a society to let citizens who cannot afford healthcare suffer and die, though you could argue that it is "fair" in some twisted way.

    Scandinavian countries with more redistributive economies consistently outrank the US on quality of life indexes, and they don't all have North Sea oil.

  16. #15

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    Life expectancy and literacy rate included.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    "Beach bums" and "welfare queens" are straw men frequently used to justify policies that punish the poor. Sure, a few of them exist, but so do trust fund babies, who did not earn their entitlements either. Obviously, it is immoral for a society to let citizens who cannot afford healthcare suffer and die, though you could argue that it is "fair" in some twisted way.

    Scandinavian countries with more redistributive economies consistently outrank the US on quality of life indexes, and they don't all have North Sea oil.
    Bravo Jonjo!...L...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    "Beach bums" and "welfare queens" are straw men frequently used to justify policies that punish the poor. Sure, a few of them exist, but so do trust fund babies, who did not earn their entitlements either. Obviously, it is immoral for a society to let citizens who cannot afford healthcare suffer and die, though you could argue that it is "fair" in some twisted way.

    Scandinavian countries with more redistributive economies consistently outrank the US on quality of life indexes, and they don't all have North Sea oil.
    punish the poor? That's what a lack of wealth confiscation and redistribution is called eh?

    the left always uses emotions and extremes to get their way.

    "a few of them exist"? In the USA we now have some of the lowest job participation rates in modern history and a record number of millions of people receiving government assistance, including food stamps.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    You bet. Which means buy those CD's you stream on pandora or Spotify, go to concerts, and--and this is the one I'll get push back on--don't gig for free.

    I do. That's what I mean by donation. As for Spotify, I use it to here if an album or song is good to buy. That's the way it should be used. I support good music, not crap and believe me there's a lot of crap. So streaming programs help me weed out the crap.

    If jazz is to be preserved we need to individually and collectively spread the word about it. Expose the kids to it as much as possible. And yes do free concerts especially for kids from time to time. Our bank account is not all that matters.
    Last edited by smokinguit; 08-02-2014 at 05:10 PM.
    "If I don't practice for a day, I know it... for two days, the critics know it... three days, the public knows it." -- Louis Armstrong

  20. #19

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    Let's not get too political here. Let's focus on what we can do to help keep OUR music alive without all the venomous politics like you see on television.
    "If I don't practice for a day, I know it... for two days, the critics know it... three days, the public knows it." -- Louis Armstrong

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit View Post
    Let's not get too political here. Let's focus on what we can do to help keep OUR music alive without all the venomous politics like you see on television.
    Ok by me.

    BTW, I go to see every great concert that I can and have a hyper-active CD purchasing habit, in fact I need to pull back.

    i think I'm doing my part.

  22. #21

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    I dont have much if any buying power just enough for rent and food. So I don't buy music. However I am part of the local jazzboard with a concert every week and during our jazz festival I write and do practical work. I go to as many concerts I can and try to play and practice as much as possible. Everything else is just marathon practice. Litterally 😄

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    punish the poor? That's what a lack of wealth confiscation and redistribution is called eh?

    the left always uses emotions and extremes to get their way.

    "a few of them exist"? In the USA we now have some of the lowest job participation rates in modern history and a record number of millions of people receiving government assistance, including food stamps.
    Through your cool, rational analysis, you have clearly demonstrated that beach bums and welfare queens are the driving factors.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit View Post
    I do. That's what I mean by donation. As for Spotify, I use it to here if an album or song is good to buy. That's the way it should be used. I support good music, not crap and believe me there's a lot of crap. So streaming programs help me weed out the crap.

    If jazz is to be preserved we need to individually and collectively spread the word about it. Expose the kids to it as much as possible. And yes do free concerts especially for kids from time to time. Our bank account is not all that matters.
    I'm certainly not talking about playing for free at a school or something to expose kids to jazz.

    I'm talking about Johnny Wonder and his backing tracks who plays for $50 at a restaurant who's payed three times that to someone else recently. Or the "pay to play" scams club owners run...

    I think it's time for jazz to go the punk route. Rent the local VFW hall, invite everybody you know, and sell merch like a madman. Stop waiting for a handout because we produce "art." The general public and the government wouldn't know art if it bit them in the ass.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    Through your cool, rational analysis, you have clearly demonstrated that beach bums and welfare queens are the driving factors.
    driving factors for what? more beach bums and welfare queens?

    (actually that case can be made, at least to a point, due to the fact that they vote for more of the same.)


    but we weren't going to get political...

  26. #25

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    I said that there were few welfare queens and beach bums living off welfare. You responded by pointing to the decline in workforce participation and increase in people receiving public assistance. I assumed you were trying to draw a causal relationship. To wit: instead of working, people are hanging out at the beach and driving Cadillacs to the welfare office, because life on welfare is just so great.

    Some are even becoming jazz musicians!

    (Because we are here to talk about jazz.)

  27. #26

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    The extreme examples of beach bums and welfare queens are not the issue and are not interesting.

    the issue is wealth redistribution and the mirage of utopia. Look again at the post above from the person who is happy with 40-60% income tax providing "free" whatever.

    You like socialism. It's not really any more complicated than that, is it?

  28. #27

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    I would like to know by what measures you consider Scandinavia a Utopian mirage.
    The Nordic countries: The next supermodel | The Economist

  29. #28

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    My mom got a "free" (I do not dare use that word ever again) cancer screening when she turned 65 and was cured from breast cancer a year later. She has worked all her life, but wouldn't afford the cost for a screening until it would be too late.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    I would like to know by what measures you consider Scandinavia a Utopian mirage.
    The Nordic countries: The next supermodel | The Economist
    Guns and butter, guns and butter.

    i said nothing of Scandinavia in particular, only of government forced wealth redistribution, and for that matter deficit spending like a drunken sailor. It's all good until the money runs dry, or until you need military strength. If Scandinavian countries were attacked they would fold in a single day. It's amazing what one can have if they depend on a neighbor or friend for security.

    but I promised Mark not to engage in politics so I'll stop. I only wish that lefties would stop throwing kindling onto the pile, but that's a lot to hope for from an art oriented gathering unfortunately.

  31. #30

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    So much I'd like to say, but I come here to get away from politics and similar viral topics. So I will only say one thing....



    I AM GROOT!!!
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  32. #31

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    did you enjoy the flick?

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers View Post
    did you enjoy the flick?
    I didn't expect much I was just wanted to get out of my apartment and cool off, but really like the movie. Wild set of characters and lots of funny dialogue, had a great time.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
    You seem to be confusing "Beach bums" with jazz musicians down on there luck. Most people living in welfare state countries pay insurance contributions, I've paid them all my life. Nobody here in the UK has to rely on charity to get by when they hit hard times through no fault of their own!...Even beach bums!!.....


    Larry,
    like you I've also paid my dues,and since I was 15, still paying tax now retired.
    But, i am forever grateful for the much maligned NHS. because it paid for my
    wife's Chemotherapy when she was diagnosed with Lymphoma in 2008, and
    subsequently her Hospitalisation when she suffered a Stroke in 2009. it has
    also paid for my Lucentis injections for AMD for the last three years.This is not
    a hard luck story ! we're just glad to both still be here.Although I greatly admire
    the American way of life,. I could not have afforded these facilities privately.

    kind regards

    Silverfoxx

  35. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit View Post
    I do. That's what I mean by donation. As for Spotify, I use it to here if an album or song is good to buy. That's the way it should be used. I support good music, not crap and believe me there's a lot of crap. So streaming programs help me weed out the crap.
    Maybe there's something I'm not understanding re Spotify, but I feel like people feel guilty about it like it's Napster or something. I'm a premium member, and think it's the only way to listen to music.

    You can sample a lot of music that you might not otherwise buy, and the artist gets paid something even for people just checking it out. For all of the YouTube videos people talk about downloading and listening to repeatedly to learn a tune, I would think that Spotify is a lot more legit in terms of artists getting paid.

    I also listen to music that I had previously purchased as a CD or some other form but don't have on my phone now.

    It's there something I'm not understanding?

    http://www.spotifyartists.com/spotify-explained/

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Maybe there's something I'm not understanding re Spotify, but I feel like people feel guilty about it like it's Napster or something. I'm a premium member, and think it's the only way to listen to music.

    You can sample a lot of music that you might not otherwise buy, and the artist gets paid something even for people just checking it out. For all of the YouTube videos people talk about downloading and listening to repeatedly to learn a tune, I would think that Spotify is a lot more legit in terms of artists getting paid.

    I also listen to music that I had previously purchased as a CD or some other form but don't have on my phone now.

    It's there something I'm not understanding?

    Spotify Explained
    The artists make pennies per hundreds of listens. Spotify can explain it however they want--that's truth, because the record label does the negotiating.

    Folks stream, they don't buy. Jazz fans are different. Real jazz fans.

    My code is if I listen more than twice, I buy it.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    The artists make pennies per hundreds of listens. Spotify can explain it however they want--that's truth, because the record label does the negotiating.

    Folks stream, they don't buy. Jazz fans are different. Real jazz fans.

    My code is if I listen more than twice, I buy it.
    My last day job it was okay to stream music and that's when I discovered Spotify and checked it out, I didn't like it. I switched to streaming Jazz radio WBGO which is at least does the right thing.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  38. #37

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    Not to throw gas on a fire but, taxes?
    Get a load of this;

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    I have a hard time imagining that the mentioned jazz legends haven't worked hard all their lives. Still they can't afford staying alive without going bankrupt.
    Yes. Some have indeed worked hard. ALL have studied and practiced hard as well. But, they made a choice in their lives . . didn't they? They chose to pursue a career which they all knew full well would more often than not be unable to provide life sustaining income . . . for anything more than a substandard life style. If people choose to live a substandard life for themselves, that's a freedom of choice and I have no problem at all with that . . nor do most others. However, when that choice affects others, I do have a problem with that.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
    When the oil runs out the fish may come back!....L..
    Yeah . . . try throwing a fish in your gas tank next time you want to drive to work.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonzo View Post
    "Beach bums" and "welfare queens" are straw men frequently used to justify policies that punish the poor. Sure, a few of them exist, but so do trust fund babies, who did not earn their entitlements either. Obviously, it is immoral for a society to let citizens who cannot afford healthcare suffer and die, though you could argue that it is "fair" in some twisted way.

    Scandinavian countries with more redistributive economies consistently outrank the US on quality of life indexes, and they don't all have North Sea oil.
    The reference to beach bums and welfare queens not at all the "straw men" tactic you claim it to be. They are the very people that those of us who complain about unfair confiscatory tax policies and redistribution of wealth complain about. Like many others here in the USA, I've got no problem what so ever with a "hand up". It's the "hand out" that I and other's complain about. You talk about trust fund babies as though they've done something wrong by being born to people who have worked their entire lives to amass wealth? Why? Will you not leave your childred anything you've earned and accumulated in your life time? Also, you forget the HUGE confiscation the US government will assess . . 35% . . with *some* in our congress fighting to increase to 50% . . of that *earned* wealth taken from them and then redistributed, some to the needy and deserving, but most to the needy and unworthy or undeserving.

    I agree that it is immoral for any society to let citizens who can't afford health care die. I don't proclaim that we should. Our US tax dollars have done more to prevent the suffering and dying in the world than any other country, and perhaps even more than all contries combined. No one has complained about doing so either. We have no problems what so ever helping those in need do to circumstances beyond their ability to control. It's the "straw men" . . as you choose to reference them as, that we do object to assisting.

    You want to talk about beach bums and welfare queens as straw men?? Here are two prime examples. Let me know how comfortable you are with your hard earned and heavily taxed dollars . . or what ever your form of currency is . . going to people like these;




    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    I dont have much if any buying power just enough for rent and food. So I don't buy music. However I am part of the local jazzboard with a concert every week and during our jazz festival I write and do practical work. I go to as many concerts I can and try to play and practice as much as possible. Everything else is just marathon practice. Litterally 
    Wow!! What a post. You don't have enough money to buy music . . only enough for food and rent. Yet, you spend what ever time you have left over from playing and practicing guitar training for marathons . . . but, you boast about having wonderful health care and unimployment insurance . . . and you don't see a problem with that?????

    Your actions sir, are very much similar to those of the "beach bum" here in the USA whose video I posted earlier. Just substitute his surf board for your jazz guirtar and your running shoes and you've pretty much got a similar scenario.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  43. #42

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    And an university degree, two jobs and being able to speak three languages and doing voluntary work. Please do not speak like this to me. Its very disrespectful.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokinguit View Post
    Let's not get too political here. Let's focus on what we can do to help keep OUR music alive without all the venomous politics like you see on television.
    Like ff, I too am all for not getting too political here . . and I truly wish there wasn't a reason to do so. But, when someone from outside the USA posts a bull shit comment about their system vs ours as yaclaus did . . I'm gonna call them out on it. I didn't bash his country in this post. All I did was respond to his bashing of my country . . in a thread illustrating that we are compasionate enough to establish a voluntary fund to help support jazz musicians. Then, some also from countries other than the USA who also embrace their "free" health care and other "free" stuff . . the same people who complain about a 20% VAT necessary to bring a quality jazz arch top in from the USA . . jumped on the same band wagon. Hypocracy????

    Maybe it'll all die down if I just let it be for what it is. I'll try to do that.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus View Post
    And an university degree, two jobs and being able to speak three languages and doing voluntary work. Please do not speak like this to me. Its very disrespectful.
    A university degree? Wow! Impressive! Who paid for that? Look man, I mean you no disrespect. My observations of the similarities in attitudes between you and the beach bum were intended to illustrate the hypocrisy in your comments. You made no mention of having two jobs. You stated that you pent every waken moment either playing guitar, studying guitar or training for marathons. If you're working and paying your fair share . . or in your case way more than your fair share . . then you're carrying your own load. I respect you for that.
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  46. #45

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    That was USA bashing?

    You'll spend a lot of time offended if you search for things that offend you.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    That was USA bashing?

    You'll spend a lot of time offended if you search for things that offend you.
    Yeah . . I did interpret as bashing, yaclaus' original post comparing the system in his country to the one in ours, as it relates to how we might choose to . . or choose not to assit those who knowingly choose a path in life other than one which will allow them to carry their own load. It was also totally unnecessary and in my opinion warranted a response.

    The OP of the thread thoughtfully took the time to inform those of us in this forum of a really nice venue to *voluntarily* help our fellow jazz musicians. What was the need for him to infer that our system is wrong as compared with his?

    As I see it, sometimes these contentious back-n-forth dialogs are kinda like football. The ref always sees and penalizes the retaliatory punch . . . but not the one which drew the retaliation.

    Further, I don't spend any time what so ever looking looking for things that offend me. They just seem to always find me on their own. ;-)
    Patrick2 . . Heritage representative (now former)

  48. #47
    Wow. What a thread...?!?...

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    The artists make pennies per hundreds of listens. Spotify can explain it however they want--that's truth, because the record label does the negotiating.

    Folks stream, they don't buy. Jazz fans are different. Real jazz fans.

    My code is if I listen more than twice, I buy it.
    OK. I'll admit ignorance on a lot of this.

    Honestly, I preview a lot of music for my church job. I pay for the premium Spotify subscription which supposedly pays artists about 10 times what the "free" version does. The free version, btw, proportedly pays about 7 times as much as youtube. Just sayin'... :-)

    [JUSTIFICATION] My previews do lead to eventual purchases for a lot of items, and with spotify premium, I'm paying as much for the previews as you can (that I know of) without purchasing hundreds of items for one-time listening. [JUSTIFICATION OVER!] :-)

    In reading up on some of this, I especially liked reading Zoe Keating's "artist's perspective" in this article from The Guardian. She admits that the streaming sites aren't all "evil" and that, like most of us, she "checks out" some music that she doesn't pay for. She also does a lot of personal disclosure of her own income from various sources.

    On the original topic of supporting musicians, it would seem that there are various levels of "lesser evils" for legally sharing music with others on a forum such as this one or for "checking out" new music. Spotify premium, for example, compensates much better than Spotify free, and both are exponentially better for artists than youtube (which, to be fair, probably sees the most use in the "sharing" music spectrum). I still think there seems to be a disproportionate amount of spotify bashing compared to youtube (which pays out far less).

    The Trichordist article here is an interesting read as well. It asserts among other things that all the music streaming companies would probably pay better if they didn't have to compete with illegal file sharing. It's a perplexing problem because the streaming services have both quelled a lot of illegal downloading and at the same time, possibly hurt artist income from song purchases. I don't know that there's any way around all of that beyond individual "codes" such as yours. People are going to share music, and the internet just makes all of that (illegal and otherwise) much easier.

    On a side note, I thought that it was really interesting that cloud streaming of your own purchased music is licensed and paid for in (admittedly small) royalties of some sort.

    Does that make purchase + listen-to-your-purchases-from-the-cloud the new gold standard for artist support? I don't know... These cloud royalties are small beans, but cloud albums don't "wear out" like cassettes and vinyl. :-)
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-04-2014 at 01:45 PM.

  49. #48

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    Man, I wish -- I THOUGHT this was a political free zone. I don't want to hear political bullshit. Or religious bullshit. Everyone has the right to believe what ever it is they want to believe, just don't shove it down my throat. Arguments about welfare states have no place in a jazz guitar forum, as far as what I can see. And it will drive people like me away faster than anything. Not that that matters one iota. I'm just saying.

  50. #49

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  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2 View Post
    Yeah . . . try throwing a fish in your gas tank next time you want to drive to work.
    Get a bike!.......