Is jazz a dying art?

**targuit** · 03-05-2014, 07:32 AM

Maybe I'm just feeling a little melancholy, but tonight I spent playing through versions of two songs as expressed by various artists. The songs were I Remember April and These Foolish Things. And I was having a ball, when suddenly I thought about whether appreciation of this music might be like a fading ember in a spent fire. Is there a chance that the younger generation will come to appreciate this great music and tradition?

My sixteen year old son does not listen to jazz, apart from his father's playing and home recording. But to my chagrin he has no interest in playing music, despite a clear talent. I know he is not my clone, nor do I expect to relive my life and possibilities through him. I just wish that he could find a passion that isn't about blowing opponents to smithereens on a computer screen. Something that will help him maintain his sanity in a crazy world that venerates rap artists and miley cirus over jazz artists.

Of course, I remember sixteen, too. Beatles, rock music - although I studied classical guitar and played in rock bands, jazz wasn't my thing at sixteen. But I always loved music as long as I can remember. Kids today seem to lack...well...soul, for lack of a better word. I rebelled against my Father, who had been a serious classically trained violinist in his youth, on track to study in Naples after graduation from HS. My Grandfather literally kicked him out of the house when, after a serious illness, my father revealed his intention to go to college and become a physician. My Dad used to tell me that the music I played like the Beatles was not his taste or serious. In a way he was right, but I didn't listen at sixteen. But music still consumed me. For my son, the sadness is that I wonder if he will ever know the joy of playing music, not for his benefit now, but in the future when he realizes the empty promises of our culture and searches for something real and enduring. Where will he find the creative process that helps us transcend our everydayness? Will jazz endure?

Jay

**Jabberwocky** · 03-05-2014, 07:48 AM

It just smells funny...

TH · 03-05-2014, 08:31 AM

One of my favourite quotes "Jazz is dead and I helped kill it"
David

**targuit** · 03-05-2014, 09:49 AM

And who said that? Lady Gaga? JZ?

**NSJ** · 03-05-2014, 10:02 AM

A dying art? Of course it is. Does that change one's desire to learn it, experience it, play it, enjoy it, love it any less?

**dingusmingus** · 03-05-2014, 10:24 AM

I predict that jazz will be fine, even without your son, and your son will be fine, even without jazz. Sounds like he's just not into it, at least now.

**Ric Lee** · 03-05-2014, 10:56 AM

Can't really foster loving something intensely, just kindle an initial enjoyment. I'm a young-ish dude(in my mid 20's), I've enjoyed jazz since I was in my young teens. Some people will eventually kindle that initial enjoyment some won't. Having other people think your music you like is uncool is enough for some people to stay away from that enjoyment.

Some young people are really serious about dubstep. Say what you will about it, will some of them stay with it for 30-40 years? That would seem kind of crazy. But there are some folks still listening to hair metal from the 80's! It's a complex emotional attachment and it's a very personal thing.

I love the hell out of Baroque music. In some circles that makes me even crazier than enjoying jazz. There are plenty of young people enjoying music out there, just not jazz.

TH · 03-05-2014, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by targuit

And who said that? Lady Gaga? JZ?

An oft quoted joke, told to me by a guitar player who's watched the changes and played through them: Mick Goodrick. It doesn't stop him from loving, playing and passing the spirit on to some of the most promising young players.
In the end, those that are involved in really playing find that its own reward; they make it live. And laugh at those who need to justify themselves or the art

**targuit** · 03-05-2014, 12:17 PM

That's fine, but my concern is that we see the pattern of change in popular music from the Thirties and Forties through the Sixties and the explosion of rock to the point today where sampling and the drudgery of listening to Lady Gaga and cohorts have replaced even the beautiful voices of singers like Linda Ronstadt as the core of "popular music".

It is hard to avoid the term "dumbing down" in this context. I work with kids daily, and I relatively rarely find dedicated musicians. Perhaps they are becoming rarer. No question that the ubiquitous presence of computer games and other diversions has thinned the ranks of budding musicians.

I do not think jazz needs to be justified. I just wish it were heard more widely in the public sector and on the airwaves. I would play jazz in any case. But I do believe that corporate media homogenization bears some responsibility for the degradation of popular taste.

**princeplanet** · 03-05-2014, 12:52 PM

I wouldn't care - in fact I'd prefer it - if no-one alive was into listening to or playing the kind of Jazz that I listen do ('55-'66). If I loved Shakespeare, then would I care if no-one else left alive did or not? Mind you, if I was trying to make a living writing plays in the style of Shakespeare, then I'd be disappointed if no one cared for it.....

**jckoto3** · 03-05-2014, 12:56 PM

"No question that the ubiquitous presence of computer games and other diversions has rarified the ranks of budding musicians."

You're unfamiliar with the staggeringly vast number of young virtuosos of practically every instrument and musical style available for your perusal on youtube. Now is probably the best time in history for a young musician -- world class tutelage available for cheap (or free) from halfway across the world, at all times of the day. A *world stage* for which to display your talent and dedication. The fact that the computer is the mechanism of transmission doesn't change the fact that there are probably more young (and old) "real musicians" playing "real music" now than at any other point in history.

**robertm2000** · 03-05-2014, 01:02 PM

Is jazz dead?? NO!!! Look at this website!

**Ric Lee** · 03-05-2014, 01:16 PM

to find a way to prop up music(even jazz or classical) in such a sense. Music has always been a social phenomenon, all corporate culture has done is capitalized on that to the skewed degradation of much else. Popular singers of today are popular because of a focus on the first part of that description and the second section is merely an add on. The "social" aspect of music, being able to share an image or an artist name or the latest bit of behavior on behalf of that "artist".

I think that much of the ship you're chasing has sailed. It now requires each person to make that journey themselves after fashioning a little personal boat.

Jim Campilongo stated it up rather nicely when he talks about when he was playing there were almost 2 to 3 bands for every venue!(paraphrased) Everybody played music back then in his opinion and I think music education was different, people were versed in the music of there parents but wanted something different(much like now!)

**jasaco** · 03-05-2014, 01:19 PM

At your son's age, I certainly had no ear for jazz. It is only later in life that I've come to appreciate it (along with a passion to learn to play it better). Now I certainly was exposed to lots of standards growing up from having the TV on (Ed Sullivan, Dean Martin, Perry Como, etc.), Broadway show tunes, etc. I wasn't "into" them at the time, but they found a sneaky way to lodge in my consciousness just the same and now I am familiar enough with them to appreciate jazz treatments of these older standards. And now that's what I have a passion for learning how to play. So, from my experience, jazz can be an acquired taste that may even take decades to rise to prominence. (Or it might never happen, as in the case of most of my childhood friends who were exposed to the same TV shows that I was!) But, of course, you knew that...

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-05-2014, 01:29 PM

Definitely not Gypsy Jazz, or swing. Its very much alive here in NYC. A lot of young folks in the crowd, and young players too. Its a good time music, people love it. Of course, one might argue it's not 'serious' jazz like people who listen to Coltrane and stuff like that, but that is kind of jazz that connects with the street very well. If you know what I mean.

**fumblefingers** · 03-06-2014, 01:01 AM

the answer is yes, of course. we've covered this one many times before.

in fact, one of it's greatest practitioners helped accelerate it's demise - Charlie Parker. it has been/never will be the same.

on the other hand you could say that its just evolving, as opposed to dying. at some point it might appropriately be called "Western improvisational music" or even "world improvisational music" or some such.

**Scot Tremblay** · 03-06-2014, 01:50 AM

I actually don't think jazz (or classical as they often debate over on the classical guitar forums) are dying arts. I don't see how one can look at all the companies turning out archtop guitars (The Loar, Peerless, Eastman etc) or the similar selection to classical players and say that the arts these instruments are for are dying.

I think there is a big change going on where the number of players making a living playing at the top are dwindling but there is an army of amateurs coming up behind them. By "amateurs" I prefer the old definition which refers to a highly skilled and accomplished artist who studied the art for the sake of the art and not financial gain. All one has to do is look at the videos posted on this site from players who love the art, may play occasionally for pay but play mostly for the love of playing, and it's pretty clear jazz is in safe hands and not going anywhere.

**Flat** · 03-06-2014, 02:50 AM

Musical genres never die, they just transmogrify.

**nick1994** · 03-06-2014, 05:47 AM

Jazz hasn't died, we just can't recognize it. The essence of the music is still alive, the whole classic straight ahead genre is fading, but will still remain a fundamental learning point in jazz musician's progressions. People will still be made to learn standards from the great American song book and will still have to listen to Charlie parker and Duke Ellington, in order to understand where Miles was coming from and where Coltrane and Ornette Coleman wanted to go. It's essential to have a basic understanding of the history of the music in order to want to play it, that way, it is internal. It's a part of you, it's not just mimicry.

**jalapeno** · 03-06-2014, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by nick1994

Jazz hasn't died, we just can't recognize it. The essence of the music is still alive, the whole classic straight ahead genre is fading, but will still remain a fundamental learning point in jazz musician's progressions. People will still be made to learn standards from the great American song book and will still have to listen to Charlie parker and Duke Ellington, in order to understand where Miles was coming from and where Coltrane and Ornette Coleman wanted to go. It's essential to have a basic understanding of the history of the music in order to want to play it, that way, it is internal. It's a part of you, it's not just mimicry.

Agree 100%

Clearly no love for Lady Gaga here. I think she's one of the few really talented ones who are mainstream at the moment. With a ridiculous work ethic to boot.

**kris** · 03-06-2014, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by robertm2000

Is jazz dead?? NO!!! Look at this website!

Really?
I am not sure.
I live in Warsaw - capitol of Poland and I could not find any jazz club today.
I would like to play this music in the club not at the virtual places.