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Another Lady Gaga post (that's it I promise)
The girl can swing !
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03-06-2014 10:29 AM
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True! The Lady can sing, if she has material. Maybe that is the problem I was alluding to before regarding corporatism of the airwaves. The jazz idiom in the Forties was the hip contemporary thing in the culture. I know it's hackneyed to jump on the devolution of culture bandwagon, but how did jazz become 'sub'-culture relatively speaking to breaking out of an egg dressed in a bikini?
Though I could try that at my next gig...where's my Speedo...??
Jay
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For the sake of argument, what needs to happen in order for jazz to be "alive" in your view? There are a lot of people who like it, who play it, who teach it, who respect it. What else needs to happen if we are to consider it not dead?
Now it may not result in album sales like it once did, but is that the test? The way that music is purchased and used is quite different than it was even 20 years ago. The people buying music are not the people listening to jazz necessarily but that doesn't mean it is dead as an art form. In fact, as someone else said, there are lots of really great players playing jazz today. It is true that there are not a lot of jazz clubs around, but that is true of any live music.
The reality is that almost no-one can make a living playing ANY style of music. That goes for jazz, pop, rock, country...you name it. There are a few that make a killing playing pop music but for every one of those, there are many thousands who are very talented but cannot make any money doing it.
Frankly, if jazz musicians actually wanted jazz to be more popular, they could do that. Just ask George Benson, Tony Bennett, Michael Buble, Harry Connick Jr., etc. However, it seems that sometimes jazz players would prefer to play music that is respected by their peers rather than music that people who have not played jazz for the last 20 years can appreciate. That's fine, but there is an old saying that goes something like - if you want people to like what you are playing then play something that people like - or something like that. Don't play something that you know most people won't like then blame them for not liking what you play.
I think jazz is very much alive although perhaps fewer people are visiting it at the home than it would like these days.
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What you say may be true, fumblefingers, regarding PCP (post-Charlie Parker) and the regretful 'repose' of jazz in the public consciousness. But I find some of the best Charlie Parker songs to be bluesy as hell and good time in spirit. I was playing his Now's The Time as interpreted by Joe Pass last night, and the Yardbird Suite is bluesy to me, too, in the sense of roots. Yet it still feels pretty contemporary to me.
Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Of course, maybe it is partly that I don't get the any dedicated cable radio or anything. I just wish that jazz were more present in the culture. I'm thinking, too, of Kris' post about the scarcity of clubs and venues. Sadly, I think that is coming true. And the wind seems to be out of the sails for making a living playing jazz compared to the past.
Jay
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yes, it's a dying art. You can see it in the death of many of the jazz venues. Here in cleveland, I used to play 4 nights a week. There were a dozen clubs featuring jazz. Now there are just 1 or 2 and one of them (NightTown) is experimenting with folk groups and bluegrass.
More and more, jazz is a conservatory-only music. And within the universities, more and more jazz students are well to do kids who's parents can afford to trust-fund the kids into jazz schools because there's no way to make a living in it anymore. And it's not only jazz, there are few full time musicans anywhere in the US. If you look behind the scenes at the jazz musicians in NY, most are teaching in order to make ends meet. Not that that's bad but it's certainly evidence that performance is no longer a viable way to make a living.
This just continues to get worse as young kids prefer canned music more and more.
There are still positives. For example, my younger son at 15 wanted to be a heavy metal guitarist. He later got into jazz and began transcribing wes, benson, pass, metheny, etc. However, after some music scholarship offers and further consideration, he decided to forgo music and is graduating law school in a couple months. He tells me he's still a jazz guitarist at heart though...
My other son is a singer/songwriter but his day gig is communications director for Campaign for LA.
20 years ago, they would probably both be musicians but it's no longer feasible unless you have wealthy parents or are willing to live life as a pauper.
All IMO of course...
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I want it to be hip again! I want kids to boogey and slow dance to bluesy jazz. And sing hip versions of Misty as a vocal group on the street corners of Philly.
But what you describe rings true to me, J Zucker. Don't quit your day job, as the saying goes. Still, the fact is that I am being driven out of private medical practice literally these days by the corporatism reform of healthcare. I hope I can find some music related work such as teaching or something, 'cause I'm not sure what else to do soon. I'm talking perhaps as soon as the end of this year. Might have to move.
Jay
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Well, if you do move, there might be better options than Philly (where you'd have to be pretty careful what street corner you're singing on) and the jazz scene isn't exactly flourishing here (though there are some amazing players). If you can hack living in NYC, that's probably the best jazz scene around. Originally Posted by targuit
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Jazz is dead,
only if commercial success
is the only measurement of art.
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ok, then. Jazz isn't dead. It's just that its audience is dead... Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Originally Posted by jasaco
Does art need an audience?
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where is a good music?
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No, "art" doesn't need anything. But, speaking for myself, it's a lot more fun to play for an appreciative audience than alone in my room. YMMV. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Originally Posted by jasaco
The small, but appreciative Jazz audience,
YMMV, mmmmm you must be very young.
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Jazz without audience it's like jazz group without bassplayer....
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Eating beans without toast is like just eating beans.
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Seems to me there might be just as many people out there wanting to play jazz...but few places to actually play it.
Pretty sad. Jazz has been underground for 60 years...maybe it's time for some preservation societies...make it a curatorial art form, like the blues.
Be tough to swallow for those out there who are still truly pushing the envelope...because they ARE out there...and they're making incredible music.
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I'd guess that a 90% of the audience at a jazz gig in the UK are hobbyists like myself or semi-pros.
Yes, we are the audience.
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Actually, I'd be very happy with a jazz-educated audience like that. I don't necessarily need for there to be a wider range of folks in the audience; I'm not on any kind of a "mission" to spread jazz-gospel. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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That's interesting Kris. If I were in Saint Petersburg, or Moscow, or even Odessa today, I could go out to listen to live jazz. I find it surprising that a city as large as Warsaw doesn't have ongoing jazz venues. Originally Posted by kris
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One profesional jazz club in Warsaw was closed two years ago... Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
There are some jazz festivals but there is not jazz club.
People do not interested in jazz music...looks like jazz crisis.
There are a lot good jazz musicians but they have not jazz club.
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Thanks for letting us know, kris. Originally Posted by kris
It really lets me know that I should be damn pleased with the area I live in. There are many, many places to play Jazz and many to play Jazz with. I am talking about the Dallas / Ft. Worth Metropolitan area.
And I am trying hard not to let this opportunity go to waste!
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of course it does. art can not exist without money. and worse, it cannot grow without money Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Does art need an audience?
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Well this is a bit of a tangent, but when I was in college in the late 70's-early 80's I felt totally connected with the jazz scene that existed at the time. There were a few genres--straight-ahead jazz, fusion, jazz-funk--but I thought I knew just about everybody who was anybody in the jazz world. And for a decade or so I saw almost everyone there was to see: Count Basie, Miles, Dizzy, Woody Shaw, John McLaughlin, Al Dimeola, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Ornette Coleman, and on and on.
Sadly, many of those cats have passed, and the jazz music scene, like other genres, has split into so many factions no one can keep them straight anymore. There is so much out there, yet where is the center? Who is the leader?
The bottom line is I don't feel as connected with the jazz world as I once did, because it's too diffuse. Not that there aren't great players out there. I think young kids will always want to play music that swings and is intellectually and technically challenging, but I'm just concerned about where they will find the role models. It will be hard to find the next Miles amid the flotsam and jetsom that is popular music these days.
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depends on your definition of "swing" i guess. The young cats in NY are playing world beats and odd time sigs and aren't as concerned with the kind of swing feel that miles or count basie played with. The music moves on, and nothing is wrong with that but outside of NY where is there a thriving scene for it?
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The simple answer is that they'll find their role models where they find everything else: on YouTube...
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