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  1. #1

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    Hey there.

    After 6 years of various investigations into my health I have been diagnosed with ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) and Ulnar Nerve neuropathy.

    For the ME aspect, I've been through a journey that's almost over and I'm practically out the other side but, the ulnar nerve in my left elbow isn't functioning properly due to damage.

    The Ulnar nerve is responsible for strength of grip and dexterity in the hand, it's situated in the elbow and is commonly known as the 'Funny Bone' which causes all sorts of numbness and tingling when accidentally knocked.

    The main causes for damage are;
    • Trauma, such as the accidental blow previously mentioned which results in short term symptoms. Severe trauma such as bone fracture near the elbow joint which could permanently damage the nerve.
    • Compression, this is the point musicians should be aware of. Repeated activity and poor posture may lead to the nerve being entrapped by surrounding tissue and ligaments.

    This can be operable but not always successful.

    You can limit the compression to this nerve. Being mindful of your posture when sitting at a desk or table and not leaning on your elbow, even changing your sleeping posture! I wake up with severe numbness to my left arm followed by unbearable tingling as the sense returns! I usually fold my arms when I'm asleep and Mrs Jazzbow is on strict orders to nudge me so I move me arms.

    The worse case scenario which I have been diagnosed with is Ulnar Neuropathy. Other nerves in me brainbox are to blame, whether it has 'Affected' or 'Effected' my fretting hand only time will tell.
    In brief the effect of ME on the brain leads to functional disorder and cognitive impairment. Functionality of the fretting hand and tingling to the entire left arm is what I have when I am tired. Cognitive impairment of short term memory means I can forget whole sequences of chords, chord shapes and what part of the 4/4 bar I'm at! A right arse ache I can tell you!! Prognosis is good and I hope for some recovery in the future.

    I am not looking for sympathy or condolences with this thread but instead I want others to be aware of their ulnar nerve and arm posture when playing.

    I know a few of our forum members have fretting hand issues and have sought medical advice and have posted on the forum, what I ask of them and for others, is to use the remainder of this thread to link in any proper medical advice on this subject matter for the unaware or seeking individual.

    Also there have been many threads on this subject which you the forum member/casual viewer can research.

    So here is the first link;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulnar_nerve_entrapment

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  3. #2

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    Thanks for sharing and giving us fair warning of what could be waiting for us down the road.

    You at least have given me a chance to take some preventive measures.

    Hope you can find an acceptable truce with these conditions.

    Like my father said when he was fighting all sorts of maladies, "It's hell growing old." He was in his late 70's, and I am already feeling it in my 50's.

  4. #3

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    Thanks for posting this. I was having a lot of issues with my Ulnar Nerve and tried a lot of different ways to address the pain. The best option ended up being nerve flossing, and I found those exercises on Youtube of all places. This along with wrapping a towel around my arm to prevent bending it while I sleep has worked wonders.

  5. #4

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    I now wear wrist splints when I sleep. Had a nerve test done earlier last year and while everything was okay, they told me to wear wrist splints when I sleep. I have a job that is very taxing on my wrists in addition to working out at the gym twice a week, so I need to be careful.

  6. #5

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    Yes, I've been there. Had that. In the town I'm in there're lots of musicians and in this community ulnar nerve damage is an all too common malady. I'd sought all kinds of treatments and had many opinions. My experience was of numbness in my fingers, tingling-like my arm falling asleep, very limited mobility-I couldn't lift my arm above a certain point- and loss of control in my left hand. I went to my PCP and was told that it was occupational hazard. Surgery was recommended at some point (it was a lengthy process of search for treatment) and all during this time I found many other musicians in my situation.
    Then I found people who had tried acupuncture. They had all had similar stories and all had cleared it up with no need for follow up, no evidence of side effects and complete recovery. So I booked a session with a highly recommended acupunturist, who is also a very good jazz bass player, and long story short, very intense first session with amazing results. Two follow ups and I have never had a problem since. It's all but a memory.
    As I said, I've worked with other musicians and at least a half dozen have had the success I've had, none have had bad experiences. That's just my story. Not recommending a course of action, just relaying my experience.
    And if you're wondering, as I very much did, it doesn't hurt. I hate needles. This I didn't mind at all.
    David

  7. #6

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    This is the sort of thread that reminds me why I like this place...

    Jazzbow and David, thanks for sharing....and Roy (Jazzbow), hope you find a cure for this and that you get well (and back to playing) soon..

  8. #7

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    That's great that David had such success with acupuncture - I tried a few rounds of it with no luck.

  9. #8

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    I had something similar for a few months a few years ago. numb tingly fingers constantly, particularly in the morning after waking up from sleeping on bent wrists. Started to take fish oil tablets and gradually the condition went away! I can't be sure of any correlation, but I can tell you this, I'm taking fish oil caps for the rest of my life!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSanta
    Thanks for posting this. I was having a lot of issues with my Ulnar Nerve and tried a lot of different ways to address the pain. The best option ended up being nerve flossing.
    Excuse my ignorance but what is nerve flossing?

  11. #10

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    I'd like to thank jazzbow for sharing his experience.

    I've been dealing with tingling in 3rd and 4th fingers on fretting hand for
    about a year; just put it down to 50 fretting years.

    Finally I went to my GP who sent me off for neurological tests including am MRI scan.
    All tests found no neuro problems...Good...but still this strange tingling and lack of feeling
    in the affected fingers.

    Has been steadily getting worse...so lightened my string gauge down to 10's on 24 3/4 scale guitar.

    Recently I've noticed the accuracy of LH 3&4 has been off.

    So, after your post...[and thanks to Mr hertz too] I've just been for my first physiotherapy session.
    These people really are of great value to us....One session...a nerve stretch exercise, some manipulation work
    and their "magic" tape...helps blood flow I'm told.....

    Prognosis is good...more sessions to follow.

    I've gone from feeling pretty gloomy about my future prospects re guitar playing....ie "life"
    to feeling quite buoyed up....I know this is probably the placebo effect...but I feel I'm on
    the right track.

    Bit soon to put the 13-53's back on.

    Wish you guys well and thanks again.

  12. #11

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    I found this to be a no-nonsense helpful link: http://www.musicianshealth.com/CubitalTunnel.htm

    I've had pain and numbness in my left hand for about eight years, in varying degrees.

  13. #12

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    I first started having (mild) bilateral ulnar problems around 2001. I have been lucky. It doesn't bother me anymore. I do a lot of stretching exercises. I stretch for 10 minutes before I touch a guitar and numerous other times throughout the day. I learned the exercises from Sharon Bulter's book (I think it is called conquering carpal tunnel and other RSIs). It has been many years since I have had a problem. When practicing, I take a 5 minute break every 15 minutes and then a 10 minute break after 30 minutes. I have been completely pain (and numbness) free for a long time now. It is possible! I think the last time I had any elbow pain or significant numbness was around 2007. I play 3 hour gigs a couple of times per month - no problems. Good luck!

  14. #13

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    Rick, how do you structure your breaks within the 3 hour gigs?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci
    Rick, how do you structure your breaks within the 3 hour gigs?

    Jake, I don't do it then of course. But, there is a little break between tunes. We also take a break halfway through for 15 minutes or so. Maybe if I were doing gigs every day I would have problems again. I don't know. I just make sure it happens when I practice. I know what got me into trouble in the past. It was long periods of typing and guitar with no breaks. Now, when I am practicing, I set a timer so that it goes off after 15 minutes (same with typing). Otherwise, I could find myself going for a long time without being aware of it. Every time I had a "relapse" in the past, it always happened when I was playing or typing for an hour or more without really stopping for a few minutes. I think I have now learned over the years what causes me to have the symptoms and what keeps them away (fingers crossed).

  16. #15

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  17. #16

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    Great, thanks Rick! I try to be good about breaks too, but it is easy to get caught up in the activity.

  18. #17

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    Yeah, it sucks to take breaks when you are really caught up in a good practice session, but I have learned my lesson the hard way more than once. I had this stuff pretty bad at one point. When I had the nerve conduction tests for the ulnar nerve stuff, I also had really bad forearm pain (probably worse than the elbows). There was a time when I stopped playing altogether for about 7 or 8 months and was in a lot of pain on a daily basis (around '01 or '02). I don't ever want to go down that path again. It really does suck.

  19. #18

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    That's great to hear that things are going well for you. Things are up and down for me, they got pretty bad last winter when I played a few long gigs with no breaks. One of them was a duo with a drummer where I was playing chord-melody for christmas tunes for an hour straight, was in a ton of pain by the end of that one.

    Now I'm actually really good about breaks from the guitar, it's actually breaks from the computer that can be really tough to remember.

  20. #19

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    Good luck, Jake (and everyone). I also did Feldenkrais lessons for a year around '06 which I loved (but they get costly after a while). As I understand it, the main idea to that is to pair muscle movements with a very relaxed state. It is incredible relaxing. I found that really helpful too. Sometimes I still do some work with a Feldenrkrais CD set:

    http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/cliffsmyth


    Overall though, I think the regular stretching exercises helped me more than anything. To be honest, I never expected to get back to a totally pain free state, but it eventually happened. It's gotten to the point now where the stretching and breaks have just become a regular part of my life. I don't even really worry too much about relapses anymore because it has been a really long time since I have had to deal with any of that. Good luck everybody.

  21. #20

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    @JakeAcci, have you given any thought to speech recognition software for the computer. It sounds like you may be the right candidate for it. Dragon speech recognition software is something to look at if you're interested.

    Gool luck.
    edh

  22. #21

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    Thanks Edh - you must have signatures turned off

  23. #22

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    Well it just goes to show a few of us have some sort of fretting hand problem!

    I would just like to say thank you to everyone for their input, stories and advice.

    There are many reasons for loss of dexterity due to RSI and actual damage to the Ulnar Nerve (UN) itself.

    Another reason for poor fretting coordination is 'Functional and Dissociative Neurological symptoms.'

    Aside from my actual ulnar nerve damage I have been diagnosed with ME (Myalgic Encephalopathy) or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. This affects my coordination and coupled with the numbness caused by UN damage I can have some pretty damn frustrating times!

    My coping strategy is to stick to either triads or my 'lazy chord' system for rhythm and over practised scale shapes for soloing. New tunes are practised to the point of 'programming' the sequences. All well and good until I play one tune with a similar structure to another and then I'll go off into a different tune. My own lead sheets help for this.

    So for some of us with UN related problems caused by cognitive disorders check this link.

    http://www.neurosymptoms.org/#

    I hope this helps

    Royster

  24. #23

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    What do you mean by "signatures? turned off"?

  25. #24

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    Users can include signatures automatically included at the end of every post, but users can also set the option to hide signatures. Mine says "Some of my posts are made on my phone using dictation software. Apologies for any awkward grammar or sentence structure, and sorry about those homophones."

    Was just having a little fun - I try to use dictation software but you're right that I should use it more often.

    Cheers!

  26. #25

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    I had the unlar transposition surgery. Easy Easy surgery and recovery.. I went from bad pain in my right hand to completely fine after the surgery. Recovery was a snap. I try to avoid that stuff but it was getting so bad to where I could not sleep at night.

    Very glad I did it and would do it again.