The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi Guys!

    My problem is that I got plenty of homework to do in the jazz conservatory, and I got a nerve inflammation in my wrist under my thumb at the carpal joint I think. Or could it also be a muscle strain? I practised 4 days a lot, before that I never had such a problem.
    There is no problem in calm status, but when I try to move it up or down, there is a flat pain in it. I try to rest it and decrease the time of practice as I can, and I use a lot of creams, comfrey cream, rosemary cream etc. But do You practising jazz guitarist have any other good method to take care of that? I dont want to go to doctor with that.

    Thanks,

    laci

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  3. #2

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    mrblues, sorry but the most important things are rest and see a doctor. The pain is your body telling you there's a problem. I can tell you from miserable experience you need to have a pro look at it. You can do permanent damage if you ignore it. Only a doctor can tell you whats wrong and recommend treatment options, which may be simple such as ice and rest for a week. My advice, stop playing see a doctor, better safe than sorry, don't ruin your career before it starts.
    Last edited by mark105; 09-18-2012 at 03:23 PM.

  4. #3

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    Mark105 is right on the money with this. If possible get to a Performing Arts doctor!

  5. #4

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    I stopped playing 15 years ago because of inflammation in the wrist. Tendonitis I believe was the name, and operation did not help me.

    One year ago I decided to play guitar again, but after a while it started to get different kind of pains. Being determined and with the goal to play 3-4 hours pr day, I followed many advices with varying results

    Creams
    Ice
    Massage
    Muscle training
    Warming up
    Taking short breaks
    Technique training
    Omega oils
    Vitamins
    Scraping the inflammation
    Baths
    Visiting doctor

    Finally I discovered a liniment, which worked extremely well for me, and I developed my own stretch technique. Instead of stretching about 3-4 seconds as mostly being demonstrated, I started to do very long stretching like people do in yoga, and several times pr. day between playing. It’s now a year since I started to play and I’m able to play 3 hours pr day, if I do half hours sessions. I believe I will be able to increase the length by time as my fingers and hand gets used to the job.
    Last edited by Munk; 09-19-2012 at 01:31 AM.

  6. #5

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    Lock away your guitars for 2 weeks, and then re-assess.

  7. #6

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    Granny Gumbo swears by this stuff, and she's 104. Rub it on the injury, and then swallow a big spoonfull or more. A bottle a day will fix anything. I add a bottle to every 3rd tank of gas to keep the my chainsaw running like new.

    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 09-19-2012 at 12:47 PM.

  8. #7

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    Thank You Guys!

    Well I was at the doctor with this, and also talked about it with my teacher at conservatory. They suggested to ice it, and use linements, decrease the hours of playing a bit, and what Munk said, stretching. Also I got some kind of medication-filled plaster, which I have to use. My teacher said that it can be a bad poise, too, and the instrument also can cause this. Can be "spiritual" reason ; I just began the conservatory, and this can be like a spiritual pressing on me, because I want to correspond to the teachers. Investigating all the reasons I get my wrist rest a bit, and train by brain, and use those things what they and You suggested.

    Thank You all again

  9. #8

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    Hi again,

    If you want to use liniment, I will suggest you to try this one. It's not a very known one, but for me it has been far much better than any I tried from the drugstore.

    Arvids Universal Liniment - 100 ml. | Køb i dag hos Wellorama.com

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Granny Gumbo swears by this stuff, and she's 104. Rub it on the injury, and then swallow a big spoonfull or more. A bottle a day will fix anything. I add a bottle to every 3rd tank of gas to keep the my chainsaw running like new.



    Maybe a somewhat brute way way to put it.

    But yes, I agree. Linements and oils - may that be snake or other oils - applied to the skin will have no effect (other than a placebo effect), since the problem lies deep beneath the skin in the tendons and joints which the linement will never reach.

    I agree that you MUST see qualified doctor - that is a doctor who knows about and has experience with such conditions, not just any doctor. As an acute measure, antiinflammatory drugs (NSAID's) may be helpful, both as pain killers and for calming down the inflammatory reaction, but such antiinflammatory drugs can cause gastritis, peptic ulcers and gastric bleeding and should only be used for a short time (we are talking about few days here) and the recommended dose should not be exceeded. Antiinflammatory drugs also has a couple of potential serious interactions with other drugs (Lithium mood stabilizers and anticoagulants are two, but there are more), so talk to your doctor about it before starting to take them. At any rate, antiinflammatory drugs must never be a permanent or prolonged measure to mask the pain. The pain is a sure sign that you are putting more stress on your hand than it can take, and such a sign sign should not be taken lightly.

    As others have said, a complete pause from playing may be necessary.

    For the longer term, when the acute problem is over, consult you teacher for advice about playing techniques which deminishes the stress on your joints and tendons. If it turns out that you have "bad habits", you may have to start all over again on some points. Seek advice about exercises (other than playing the guitar) which will gradually strengthen the muscles of your hand and forearm. Strong muscles will decrease the stress on joints and tendons. But do it at a measured pace, since too much and too often will cause more of the very problems you are trying to get rid of.

  11. #10

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    Thanks guys.

    Found some stretching practices on the net, which can be helpful to others, too:



    Also I found a doc in the hospital of my hometown, who is a hand surgery specialist, I give him a call, to ask for some suggestions.

    ps edit: phoned him, thank God I can date with the specialist tomorrow, hope he is going to help me solve this problem
    Last edited by mrblues; 09-20-2012 at 09:17 AM.

  12. #11

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    I've found this book to be quite helpful, although I don't know how easy or expensive it would be to obtain from where you are.

    The Athletic Musician: A Guide to Playing Without Pain: Barbara Paull,Christine Harrison: 9780810833562: Amazon.com: Books

  13. #12

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    Thanks Solo Flight, the book is easy to obtain, the price.. I dont know. Gonna see after it. Also the website helps a lot.

    I think I will be given a steroid injection into the wrist tomorrow. But maybe thats just a science fiction. Dont know. I hardly wait to practice again, cant live without guitar and jazz...

    Not to mention we have a 3 hours long rehearsal with the big band on saturday...
    Last edited by mrblues; 09-20-2012 at 09:39 AM.

  14. #13

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    MrBlues -
    What you're saying is a little scary. Cortisone injections do work wonders in the short run for the inflammation, which is causing your pain. But just because you'll be pain free, it doesn't mean all is well. With a 3-hour rehearsal coming up and your comment that you can't wait to start practicing again -- well, I think you're going to have the same problem pretty soon.

    I would get and read that book as soon as possible. And then it's best to ease back into playing and build up your playing time little by little. Believe me, you do not want to reinjure yourself and be forced into a six-month layoff or worse.

  15. #14

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    I have tried 3 different NSAID's and they were all able to lower the inflamation and pain, so I could go on with my program. But they never gave me a feeling of being close to a cure and a life without them. Besides some of them had a side effect which made me feel a bit vomit.

    I also had injection with adrenal hormone, which cured it for a few weeks.

    When I saw this thread yesterday, it was after weeks with much more playing than normal, and I was on the edge of something critical with my hand. I have used the liniment 3 times since yesterday and I have no pain at all.

  16. #15

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    Solo FLight: Well, I get it rested now, I am curious what the doc is going to say, if he says I should rest more, then I tell the bandleader the situation, and ask for his patience.

    Munk: I dont know where could I buy taht liminent out of Denmark. The google only brings me up dk sites when searching for Arvids liminent

  17. #16

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    mrblues: I bought it in a shop here in Denmark. Maybe it's only sold here.

    The label says it's manufactored by Vita bene:
    VitaBene.dk - Velkommen til VitaBene.dk

    You can email them or order it from one of these danish websites.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Munk
    mrblues: I bought it in a shop here in Denmark. Maybe it's only sold here.

    The label says it's manufactored by Vita bene:
    VitaBene.dk - Velkommen til VitaBene.dk

    You can email them or order it from one of these danish websites.

    Thanks. I mailed them, asked if they have a dealer here, or which dealer they suggest me to buy from (online) in Denmark.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Munk
    mrblues: I bought it in a shop here in Denmark. Maybe it's only sold here.

    The label says it's manufactored by Vita bene:
    VitaBene.dk - Velkommen til VitaBene.dk

    You can email them or order it from one of these danish websites.


    I'm sorry to take on the role of the grumpy old man, but ....

    I checked the website. There is no documentation whatsoever of the effect, only undocumented claims - no reference to randomized, double blinded trials, which would have been easy to set up. There is no hint of mode of action (for good reasons, see below). The active content is said to be "aetheric oils, vitamins and minerals", but these oils, vitamins and minerals are not specified. There is no specification of additional compounds, though they must certainly be there or they couldn't fill a bottle, so allergic persons should look out. They claim that it works even for back pain, though its hard to see how those postulated active components can penetrate 5-10cm of skin, connective tissue and bone to the spinal nerve roots or paravertebral muscles where the cause of back pain is usually found. I also can't see how oils, vitamins and minerals can dampen inflammatory reactions - it's not an effect ever demonstrated in these substances. They also postulate that it acts as a muscle relaxant. Again, it can't penetrate as deep as the muscles, and muscles will only relax (or contract for that matter) via a nerve-muscle mechanism, not by smearing something on the skin above it.

    So .... In my - not so humble - opinion, it's not different from the Snake Oil pictured higher up this thread. There is likely no harm in trying it, but the OP should not rely on it to solve his problem, and most likey he will waste his money. If it "helps", it's because the pain would have disappeared anyway by itself.

    Giving it time and rest to heal by itself and then taking sensible action to prevent relapse is the only way to go. If the OP doesn't do that but instead relies on this or that Snake Oil as a shortcut, he risks ending up with a more chronic condition.

  20. #19

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    Yes no documentation, but as long as it works much better on me than the documented ones and doesn't seem to be dangerous, I don't care. I showed the product to my doctor and he believed it was fine to use.

  21. #20

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    Mr. Blues you may want to look into a device to help with stretching your hand called a "Cat's Paw" catspaw.com. Check out the website ask your Doctor if they think it might help. I have used one every day for a while now (1 year) with great results. Good Luck!!

  22. #21

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    Cut up a piece of old bicycle inner tube. Staple the ends together, wrap it around your fingers. Viola! poor mans Cats Paw.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddy b.
    Mr. Blues you may want to look into a device to help with stretching your hand called a "Cat's Paw" catspaw.com. Check out the website ask your Doctor if they think it might help. I have used one every day for a while now (1 year) with great results. Good Luck!!

    thanks i am going to look into it!

  24. #23

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    Well, thats the way it is... I just got home from the hand surgery specialist. He said its a tendovaginitis, or in other words, tendonsheet inflammation

    Sry i had to copy the above mentioned from a medical dictionary.
    I got plaster from my fingers till the elbow... He said it will be a minimum 2 weeks... Also i got a non-steroid inflammatoin reducing tablet, which i have to take 2 times a day.

    Its hard to type with 1 hand. So I go now. Take care of your hands guys...

    God Bless

  25. #24

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    Wow - sorry to hear that. But better that you treat it now than let it get worse later. Remember, when the cast comes off, go sloooow. Look into some stretching and gentle muscle strengthening exercises. If you can see a physical therapist that specializes in hands and/or musicians, all the better. Good luck!

  26. #25

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    Thanks Solo Flight. Yes, I will go slow when I can continue my playing. Im afraid of muscle decreasing because of the "artificial paralysis". So looking for the muscle strenghtening exercises on the net.