What happened to jazz ?

**blindjimmy** · 05-01-2012, 10:06 PM

Looking back to where the genre seems to have took hold and became popular, New Orleans brothels , speakeasys , and other such sordid locales , where new orleans jazz and swing jazz were party music, for working people who were drinking , smokeing, danceing and getting their freak on , and comparing that to today , where so many people complain about smoke , while they sip wine and debate what is and is not jazz, concerned about appearances , with perhaps just more than a hint of pretense , what went wrong , what happened to the party ?

**fumblefingers** · 05-01-2012, 10:26 PM

just saw the latest issue of downbeat. there are PLENTY of jazz festivals this summer, worldwide.

now, i ain't saying they'll be playin' bebop...

**Jazzpunk** · 05-01-2012, 10:32 PM

Google 'rock and roll', 'hop hop' and 'electronica' and you'll have your answer. Tastes change, that's just the nature of pop culture.

If the demographic you are describing was demanding the sounds of prohibition era jazz, that's what you'd be hearing. Plenty of out of work musicians would be happy to fill the role, trust me.

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-02-2012, 03:14 AM

Wassup? Yo dawg, hip hop is the new jazz.

**Tom Stewart** · 05-02-2012, 03:50 AM

Originally Posted by blindjimmy

Looking back to where the genre seems to have took hold and became popular, New Orleans brothels , speakeasys , and other such sordid locales , where new orleans jazz and swing jazz were party music, for working people who were drinking , smokeing, danceing and getting their freak on , and comparing that to today , where so many people complain about smoke , while they sip wine and debate what is and is not jazz, concerned about appearances , with perhaps just more than a hint of pretense , what went wrong , what happened to the party ?

It got better:

Nuff Said · 05-02-2012, 04:07 AM

Jazz is a constantly evolving music.

Personally I feel that Jazz reflects the life and times, so Jazz can have influences from Soul, Hip Hop, Rock, Classical, anything and everything are being incorporated.

Nuff

**kris** · 05-02-2012, 06:14 AM

Jazz is OK....but who is interested in good music with intelectual spirit?
Maybe this forum is for jazz fans only.
Very bad time for all culture!!!

**AmundLauritzen** · 05-02-2012, 06:58 AM

I want my chord changes and my bebop vocab. As long it's in there somewhere I'm all for innovation.
The knee-jerk cutting edge hipsters who bash boppers for playing "ancient" music can go f*** themselves. Where I live, I have to deal with an extreme amount of bullshit for playing this music. I'll play my "grandpa music" while the hipsters can dress up in the emperors new clothes. At least I actually enjoy what I do.

My two somewhat emotionally charged cents.

You hit a nerve, OP. Good thread.

**ruiner54** · 05-02-2012, 07:58 AM

Us whities got a hold of it :P

**robertm2000** · 05-02-2012, 08:01 AM

Jazz has gotten somewhat less popular over the last half century. It is a somewhat specialized music. But it isn't entirely out of the mainstream picture, I don't think.

In Washington State< where I live, there is a radio station, KPLU, that is, other than two major blocks of news-based programs, a completely jazz-based station. They have FM translators all through Washington Stateand one in Southern Canada. and a huge internet presence. They don't play much avant garde, and they do play some fusion and a lot of blues, but a lot of traditional jazz.

There are a lot of public radio stations which play jazz, and I don't think they would be able to survive if jazz was "dead."

**fumblefingers** · 05-02-2012, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by ruiner54

Us whities got a hold of it :P

i think whiteys looks better, dont know if its correct.

**kris** · 05-02-2012, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by robertm2000

Jazz has gotten somewhat less popular over the last half century. It is a somewhat specialized music. But it isn't entirely out of the mainstream picture, I don't think.

In Washington State< where I live, there is a radio station, KPLU, that is, other than two major blocks of news-based programs, a completely jazz-based station. They have FM translators all through Washington Stateand one in Southern Canada. and a huge internet presence. They don't play much avant garde, and they do play some fusion and a lot of blues, but a lot of traditional jazz.

There are a lot of public radio stations which play jazz, and I don't think they would be able to survive if jazz was "dead."

Nice!!!
How many jazz clubs are there?

**robertm2000** · 05-02-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by kris

Nice!!!
How many jazz clubs are there?

Quite a few, actually. In Seattle, there are 25 or 30 that I know of that have at least some jazz regularly. Tula's and the Triple Door are very active, and the "grand dame" of jazz clubs in Seattle is Dimitriou's Jazz Alley - nationally known performers 7 nights a week. So jazz though it isn't as prevalent as top 40 (wince) is still a good drawing card here.

**Bosko** · 05-02-2012, 09:16 AM

Jazz was most popular as dance music. As jazz transitioned to music for performers, popularity waned.

**AmundLauritzen** · 05-02-2012, 09:58 AM

Jazz clubs(The kind of clubs where you can hear people play over changes) around here have concerts once a week - go figure.
Most Jazz festivals only book hipster jazz. I swear "Biker creole punk pop jazz funk soul blackmetal avant-garde fusion with post modern influenced lyrics" is the kind of label most of these groups adopt. It's not about the music anymore. It's a competition about who can be the most outrageous.
There's an abundance of hipster pop too. Big glasses, pastel clothes and an attitude. But throw confirmation changes at them and they lose face.

I mean atonal music isn't even cutting edge anymore. Get a grip.
It's ironic. Ornette was around decades ago and these people call our music ancient while their atonal stuff is even more limited and done to death already.

I'm accepting to all music where sincerety is key. But around here it's all about being outrageous.

Now I'm ranting here - sheesh!

**zigzag** · 05-02-2012, 10:36 AM

Remember in "Amadeus" when the Emperor Josef tells Mozart that he has used too many notes, or the end of "Bird" when Bird realizes that the sophistication of jazz will never be the popular choice. Only hard core, disciminating listeners and performers appreciate jazz. That is why most jazz performers are centered in urban areas, because that is where they find enough people to support their art. I live in a small suburb surrounded by country in the southeast. A local public jazz station changed their format to practically eliminate jazz. Fortunately, a local college station included a late evening jazz spot on weekdays.

Interesting to think where jazz would be today without fusion.

What percentage of guitar players play jazz? How many even want to take the time to learn simple theory? I wonder if R&R dumbed down the guitar? I know that sounds arrogant, and that is not intended. Some R&R is very sophisticated and some knocks me out!

**mr. beaumont** · 05-02-2012, 01:18 PM

The dichotomy never bothered me. I like Louis Armstrong and Evan Parker...

Music changes as it progresses...we should be happy about that.

**eddy b.** · 05-07-2012, 10:02 AM

What happened to Jazz? Where is the Party? WWII happened...they stopped making records...every body concerned themselves with defeating fascism...bebop was invented during this time...soldiers came home Please don't Dance signs were put up at jazz clubs... then R-n-B from New Orleans again Fats Domino Eddie Bo then rock and roll, television happened... the soldiers who were the Swing age kids now have families...what teenager likes their father's music? right so here we go with Elvis and then horror of horror the British Invasion and somewhere in there two more wars (Korea, VietNam) ooopps and who could forget the Cold War and the Nuclear Arms Race somewhere in there LSD is invented and completely changes film and music for ever and forty years later the kids still don't like their Father's music and the disparity between wealth and poverty is greater than ever where did the party go? what party..

**Dark Star** · 05-07-2012, 12:22 PM

What happened to jazz? It went to college & was sedated while gazing at its own navel. While asleep, someone came along & neutered it.
"Now he worships at an altar of a stagnant pool
And when he sees his reflection, he’s fulfilled..."

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-08-2012, 09:38 PM

It used to be a jazz party, now I think it's a jazz contest, whoever plays the most notes wins a stuffed animal.

**JohnRoss** · 05-09-2012, 08:56 AM

I too have lamented the fact that jazz was originally a genre of popular music, party music to dance to, and became more artificial, contrived and elitist, a genre of art music and a field of academic study. But on the other hand, that's probably how it survived. Pop genres tend to fade away as new fashions take their place: cakewalk became ragtime, the samba gave way to bossa... Where are beat music, yé-yé, or skiffle now?

**Jazzpunk** · 05-09-2012, 02:24 PM

If only jazz musicians would stick to playing music exactly as they did in the early 1900's they would knock Usher and Katy Perry right off the top of the pop charts. It's what the 'smoking, drinking, get your freak on' crowd is just dying for.

**Jazzpunk** · 05-09-2012, 06:59 PM

I'm curious, what style of classic jazz do you guys think would be a hit with the youth and knock contemporary music off the charts? If modern jazz musicians are at fault than surely there must be a sound that would connect with the masses beyond a niche market like Gypsy or Swing.

So which era of classic jazz would have the modern day party hardy crowd booing the DJ and begging for a live band?

**smokinguit** · 05-09-2012, 08:03 PM

Maybe if Wes Montgomery's ghost enters lil wayne and makes him play jazz guitar the way wes did, but allows him to rap, jazz might become popular again. Of course the jazz community won't dig it, but the masses probably would.

**JohnRoss** · 05-09-2012, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I'm curious, what style of classic jazz do you guys think would be a hit with the youth and knock contemporary music off the charts? If modern jazz musicians are at fault than surely there must be a sound that would connect with the masses beyond a niche market like Gypsy or Swing.

So which era of classic jazz would have the modern day party hardy crowd booing the DJ and begging for a live band?

It isn't a matter of era or style, but that jazz nowadays is introspective instead of outgoing. It doesn't play to a general public, only to a limited, pre-informed public. In the early 1900s you mention, when jazz exploded onto the world, jazz was extrovert, visceral, little or no theory involved, anyone could understand it. And I think cosmic might be right about hip hop being today's jazz - I know Quincy Jones has defended rap with the same logic.